What is the fascination with classes?

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@VRACinque wrote:

SPOILER long post incoming. Because to answer to this topic we have to cover few things.

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I agree to all of this + want to add my thoughts to the most important points:

The classes have strong synergies. You can't just have a Team full of Medics against Tanks. You can't camp with your sniper forever - You need someone to give ammo.

The Specialists have no synergie at all. Just a bunch of random af abilities. Since everyone can do everything it all comes down to their active and passive ability. But they just don't work together at all... They are not so special after all...

Do I need a Sundance in my squad? No...

Do I need a Falck? Nice to have maybe but everyone can revive and spam health packs... So.. No...

If I go in a vehicle I dont even care about the character at all. There is not a single specialist that fit for vehicles at all.

If you look at every other hero shooter the Heros/Specialists always have a Role that they fill. They don't just change their loadout and become the super soldier that can do literally everything.

BF2042 never give me the feel to make a decision towards my squad because nobody cares and nobody needs to care.

All specialists are egoistic "I want this, and this and this" all you can eat idiots...

Being a medic with selfheal, long range sniper, ammo crate and sensor ball.. no need for any teamplay. Just a poor design.

The other thing that I hate about them is the stupidity in visuals in combination with their loadout.

In previous BFs you had detailed Characters where you could see all of their Loadout even when they switched Weapons.

In 2042 the stuff just disappears because it would look ridiciolous when Sundace wingsuites away with and LMG + Rocketlauncher.

In BF3 I can not just see the class they have but I can see "This guy has a Stinger on his back".

Ofc knowing the specific loadout was not important for gameplay. If I see an engineer as a Tank or Heli I smell danger and focus on that guy anyway.

But it has something to do with love for detail and immersion. BF2042 lacks in all of it.

Plus it's dumb when a sniper pulls out a AA Rocket out of his... Pants. How can I predict that as a pilot?

And ofc.. the cringe... They all need do become more serious to fit the world that BF2042 wants to be.

I wouldn't mind to have 10+ specialists if they were truly unique like a class.

There can be a close range recon like paik (shotgun, MPs), and a long range recon like caspar (Snipers, DMRs). They would fit specific roles and should only be able to do that. They would partly overlap with the loadouts ofc. But they would be A TRUE SPECIALIST of 1 specific role. Not mediocre at everything while a medic can do all of that better because of additional self heal.

why do you guys keep pretending that classes made people actually play together?  people that want to do that will do that the ones who won't...well won't.  did you stop to think that maybe the way the world has been recently and it's affect on people MIGHT have something to do with the lack of teamwork?  just MAYBE it's the person holding the controller that is the problem with team work and not the game

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i'm not saying the game doesn't have problems.  it does.  i'm saying the lack of teamwork is the people playing the game not the game itself.  no matter WHAT you do you will never be able to force people to play the way you want them to play (nor should you be able to)

@NiCeDiCe90Thing is, in previous games, you would often get teams full of Medics (who would then whinge on the forums about OP Tonks) and snipers would still camp without ammo, specialists haven't changed that.

In BF2042 for a squad to be effective you still need someone with heals, you still need someone with ammo, in a vehicle, it still helps to have someone to repair.

If that isn't happening, it is not the games fault because all of them are still possible, it is the players fault.

Man, I can’t believe we are here! Now there’s proponents for the new specialist system? I mean it’s kind of funny, we hated BFV, now we love BFV, we hate specialist, now specialist are not so bad. It’s like it doesn’t matter what they feed us? We will get used the taste of mashed peas and eventually like it. What does that remind me of??? (a baby).

My relationship with this game (all the BF releases in general) is like a bad relationship.

1. Fall in love, get married (insert first BF you played)
2. Person changes (insert new BF release here)
3. We wanna divorce! (I’m done with BF!!!)
4. Promise for change. (All the right things are said, updates are made and of course the "love letters")
5. Nothing ever is “the same” (Players get used to the new changes)
6. We just want the happiness of the wedding day back. (insert first BF you played)

So is it time to ask...

Does an expert that develops games for a living and a company that has experience with 10 of thousands of games know better than me?

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@Psubond wrote:

why do you guys keep pretending that classes made people actually play together?  people that want to do that will do that the ones who won't...well won't.  did you stop to think that maybe the way the world has been recently and it's affect on people MIGHT have something to do with the lack of teamwork?  just MAYBE it's the person holding the controller that is the problem with team work and not the game

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Because that's the experience I had with previous Battlefield titles compared to 2042. Yes, at the end of the day how much and individual values teamwork relies on that individual, but developers can still attempt to guide their players in the direction that they want. No matter what, there will always be people who don't use teamwork regardless of how much it is needed. And there will be people who are the opposite and prioritize teamwork even if they gain nothing from it. But there are plenty of people who are in the middle too; people who are willing to work as a team, but just need a little nudge or guidance from the game to incentivize them to do so. 

Let's say that in previous games I found good teamwork in 30% of matches (probably less, just making up numbers). In my experience playing 2042, it's less. Sure, there's still maybe a 10% chance for good teamwork, and it certainly can and does happen, it simply happens less. And it seems like people are less concerned with it when playing the game. Partially because lone-wolfing it is just more viable, but there are many things that impact this. 

Let me turn this around: Why do you refuse to acknowledge that the specialist design choices could be affecting how much teamwork is in the game? As many others have said, like you just did, the person sitting with the controller or keyboard is the final determining factor for how much that person wants to use teamwork. But, as others have said, design choices like specialists vs classes have an impact on this as well. Why do you refuse to accept those other factors as part of the equation? 

@Trokey66 You're right - at the end of the day, bad teammates are bad teammates, and no amount of mechanics implemented by the devs can change that. 

All devs can do is include mechanics to incentivize the average player to prioritize teamwork. They can't force them to do anything, just try to guide them in that direction. That's all. Previous games made it very evident that this is what they were trying to do - guide players towards teamwork. 2042 just doesn't push players in that direction as much, that's all.