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starbar434's avatar
starbar434
Seasoned Novice
5 days ago

Boss fights are WAY overtuned

I'm playing a mage on adventurer difficulty, which is supposed to be the "balanced" difficulty. So why am I stuck constantly dodging around the entire battlefield for half an hour while my companions chip away putting almost no damage on the boss? My warrior companion can't hold boss threat, a single hit from the boss chunks out 60-80% of my HP, and I only get 3 health potions, and the bosses are pumping out hits faster than the animation it takes my character to recover from dodging. This feels like it should be nightmare difficulty. Patch one claims it tuned difficulty to "match design intent". It's hard to believe that the design intent is to have players run in a circle for 30 minutes while their companions chip away the bosses sponge healthbar by outputting 5% of the DPS that Rook is capable of on normal difficulty.

Devs got so focused on making this feels like a soulslike that they forgot who their audience for this game is. Instead of deep, well thought out dialogue, companion conversations, and fun balanced boss fights, we get campy dialogue, companions who barely acknowledge when we walk into the room, and punishing fights where you can't make a single attack if you play the "wrong" class. Again, on NORMAL mode.

I waited 10 years for this game and now I'm not sure I'll even finish it. You took away everything I loved about Dragon Age in favor of making another dark souls clone.

  • There are buffs to your dagger and other armour sets (at least with the mage), that automatically shift enemy aggression to other members in your party.

    Deflection is a great way to turn the tide against dragons as well. Will admit though it can be rather exhausting when they decide to spam the quick multi spits and go right for the slam

    • starbar434's avatar
      starbar434
      Seasoned Novice

      Oh great, so surviving corius requires gear and enchantments you don't have until after the fight.

      Enchanting unlocked after the corius fight. I don't have any gear that reduces or redirects threat. And deflection is a rogue skill, but I'm sure my mage will pick it up somewhere.

      • Jadelitest's avatar
        Jadelitest
        Seasoned Newcomer

        Mage deflects with the left bumper like every class. Perfect timing reduces incoming damage to 0. You can use it on both staff and dagger.

        Not sure why you think this is a Rogue exclusive feature.

  • starbar434's avatar
    starbar434
    Seasoned Novice

    Just dropping back in to add that the strategy people are recommending right now for corius is "turn down the difficulty and run in circles until the timer runs out." Meaning you have to put the game on easy mode just to survive the fight. That's the dev's idea of a fun boss fight? Really?? Even on easy mode we don't get to actually fight in a boss fight???

    • Fred_vdp's avatar
      Fred_vdp
      Hero+

      Is there a timer? I was under the impression that the fight ends after you get her on on her side, which you can do by targeting her legs.

  • sweetpoison0011's avatar
    sweetpoison0011
    Seasoned Traveler

    Treads like this always makes me smile. Fits the what Hawke said about Qunari "you give them gold, they complain is too heavy".

    There are a few points where a player should pay attention: combat customization, choice of skills and gear, timing and targeting. When fight a dragon target the body part which is on different color than the rest. If is is nothing to pick (no highlight body parts), run because you are under attack. Exploit the weakness. Save the skills for the time when dragon is down to maximize the damage. Use complementary skills (and gear) to take advantage on stats effect. Mages, should change knife&orb with the staff according to the distance. I am consider myself to be the worst when it comes about combat so from the beginning I set up the difficulty to my level. Also first dragon fight at my choice (not forced by story) was at level 30 or 31. Difficult but entertaining.

    The combat is punishing but it is fair.  Too bad there is not enrage timer where the boss will wipe out all team for incompetence (like it is in swtor - operations).

    Oh, I'm always confused about realistic part especially when it comes about fantasy games... Aside the magic part, fighting a dragon is totally realistic.

    • starbar434's avatar
      starbar434
      Seasoned Novice

      Also first dragon fight at my choice (not forced by story) was at level 30 or 31. 

      If your first dragon fight wasnt until level 30 or 31 then you don't really even know what I am talking about. I got to corius pre lvl 20 (I am focusing on getting companions before exploring, which is the strategy bioware should expect most players to use since so many areas are locked without companion skills). I just barely reached level 20 and there's a dramatically noticeable increase in Rook's strength and survivability. 

      The combat is punishing but it is fair.  Too bad there is not enrage timer where the boss will wipe out all team for incompetence (like it is in swtor - operations).

      All, the combat is not fair when taking a single hit from the boss essentially stunlocks you on NORMAL mode because the basic recovery animation (not the one you can get out of with a button press) is slower than the boss's next attack. On NORMAL mode you should be able to make a couple of mistakes without it being an automatic KO. (Also, enrage timers? Seriously? Maybe on hard mode, but again we are talking about NORMAL mode. GTFO with that gatekeeping **bleep**, games are for PLAY and no one should have to be pro level to enjoy one. Not to mention punishing people for "incompetence" has literally never been what dragon age combat is about.)

      Genuine question, is this the first game you've played in the series? Dragon age combat has NEVER been this level of intensity. The closest fight to corius from the previous games is the arishok fight in DA2, which up until this game came out was the most hated fight in the series. Super weird decision on the part of the devs to lean into the style of fight that everyone hated. I'll say it again, they alienated their existing base in favor of making combat feel like another soulslike clone (well, diet soulslike, anyway). I'm not the only person saying this. They took away what people loved about dragon age (romances, companion interaction, choices, dialogue, and storytelling) and gave us punishing combat that no one asked for. Punishing combat should be saved for hard mode, because it's fine that it exists in the game and people who want to play that way should be allowed to. But it shouldn't be the normal mode for the game because so much of the fan base just doesn't like to game that way.

    • WyllRavengard's avatar
      WyllRavengard
      Seasoned Novice

      All of your points about where to target a dragon, etc., are all obvious and known already.  It's not just the dragon - it's all enemies.

      There is nothing fair about combat in this game when all of the enemies only attack Rook.  I have watched as companions are left alone and all of the enemies are facing and heading to me.  There are three people on the battlefield for enemies to attack and they only attack one of them - not realistic, even for a game.

      And, outside of the healing some companions offer, they do little damage to opponents anyway.

  • I don't play games for the combat usually, I played on Keeper difficulty here and I didn't mind combat for the most part, even had fun with it.

    But I do agree that it's unpleasant how many attacks from bigger bosses like dragons are solely focused on Rook. And even though it got easier and more survivable on later levels as I got stronger, it still wasn't exactly fun to have to run around dodging 90% of the time. 

    One of the most annoying things was the timing of recovery after getting hit vs the timing of consecutive boss attacks. It happened more than once that I essentially got stunlocked because the boss would aim and already attack again before Rook was fully done with the recovery animations, and there was no time to dodge out of the next aoe before it would hit me. That is way too punishing for an easy mode.

    • starbar434's avatar
      starbar434
      Seasoned Novice

      Yes this is exactly what I'm saying!! I want to actually fight the boss in a boss fight (weird take apparently) and not just run around dodging because taking one hit 85% of the time results in game over. I personally like having to employ strategy for combat in games and to have to choose my armor and skills to improve my chances, which is why I picked normal mode. But I also like to be able to actually do some damage. Running in a circle for 10+ minutes while my party members chip away at the boss at 10% of my possible dmg output is boring. And then to do that, miss one dodge by 0.1 seconds and take one hit, just to get KOed and have to do it all over again?? On normal mode?? There's nothing fun about that at all.

  • Jadelitest's avatar
    Jadelitest
    Seasoned Newcomer

    I have now completed all but the last mission on Underdog difficulty on a Warrior and I must say I disagree with almost everything you've said outside of companion damage.

    However, companions are not meant to deal much damage, they are meant to provide utility with healing, applying debuffs/afflictions, applying defensive/offensive buffs to you, and having gear that affects your stats such as increasing certain buff durations.

    I will agree with the sentiment that this is a very different type of game from Inquisition and the DA games before it.

  • You summed up another issue that I have with the game!  Along with boring, or mostly non-existent romances, the combat is way too difficult!  Let's take a dragon fight for example... Rook is the ONLY one the dragon ever goes after.  You can't get in any hits or plan any lack-luster companion attacks when you are constantly sprinting from danger!

    Totally unrealistic.  Not that gaming is realistic in the least, but with 3 people on the battlefield, there is no way that the opposition only goes after 1 of the 3 targets!

    Yep - 10 years and how ever many millions they spent on this - I doubt that make it all back.

  • sweetpoison0011's avatar
    sweetpoison0011
    Seasoned Traveler
    starbar434 wrote:

    If your first dragon fight wasnt until level 30 or 31 then you don't really even know what I am talking about. I got to corius pre lvl 20 (I am focusing on getting companions before exploring, which is the strategy bioware should expect most players to use since so many areas are locked without companion skills). I just barely reached level 20 and there's a dramatically noticeable increase in Rook's strength and survivability.

    Ah, Corius, story related dragon fight. No, I went for the other one. Still, if you don't pay attention to targeting you're in for a nasty surprise. Also The dragon can be interrupted or distracted when he's about to launch an attack by beaming magic in his eyes. Doesn't do much damage but spares you of being hit 3 out of 5 cases. Since you talk about Bioware and other games you also should be aware of how the threat is working. Casting more DPS than TPS of a tank results in getting targeted by the boss. AOE damage can be mostly avoided taking that you do know how to manage the resource. Exploit: while you cast a skill you take no damage. Step fade at the last moment also avoid the damage even if you are still in area of impact (50% chance). 

    Anyways, if you didn't do exploration you probably didn't upgrade your gear as well (lack of materials). That fight is a good point to review the difficulty settings and serves the story purpose by showing that you're not ready to face a dragon. So if you are enraged about that fight wait to see what's coming. 

    Drop the difficulty or use the the custom settings to make the fights enjoyable. 

    As you speak about what players do, I beg to differ. Story mission is the last one I do in any RPG I play. Then again, I'm not one for the combat and still I enjoy it so much in this game.

    • starbar434's avatar
      starbar434
      Seasoned Novice

      if you didn't do exploration you probably didn't upgrade your gear as well (lack of materials). 

      So I do see why you'd make that assumption but I had everything equipped for me and my whole party upgraded as far as I could (capped by level, not resources). 

      And fair, different people play differently, so maybe by saying "most players" I was overstating it. But getting all your companions first isn't an abnormal strategy because a lot of people don't like running the same map over and over just to get the one thing they couldn't unlock the first time or few through. So if I was underleveled and undergeared for the corius fight, fine, but I got shoehorned into it and I didn't know to wait to start the quest that lead into it because there aren't any level indicators in the quest log, no warning popups that I'm underleveled, none of those other game mechanics that are commonly used now.

      But even then, no one should ever describe a fight in a dragon age game as "punishing" on normal mode. Corius isn't the first boss I had to get through by running in circles while my party got to actually do the fight, but he was the most egregious. I did end up using custom settings to turn down enemy dmg, health, and aggression to the lowest setting which barely made corius survivable, and that honestly made me wonder if the enemy aggression setting is even working as intended. The frequency of attacks did not slow down one bit; I still ended up getting stunlocked a couple times and only finished the fight because the boss wasn't hitting as hard.

      Tons of people are saying the combat is too hard because Rook gets hit too often and the recovery animations take too long, which leads to you getting functionally stunlocked. And  recommending an exploit as a way to get around it is an indicator that something is wrong. This game does have the most fun combat in a dragon age game when it is working. But I'm sorry, people having to rely on exploits and spending 95% of a fight sprinting in a circle just to avoid a game over (again, on normal difficulty) is a sign that something isn't working the way it should be.

  • cornerbite's avatar
    cornerbite
    Seasoned Novice

    You do just have to treat this like a souls game. Once I just accepted that, I was better. After all, I did actually beat bosses in the souls games and this isn't even CLOSE to real boss fights from souls. 

    So there's that, and make sure you are upgrading the workshop. Upgrade every time you can, and upgrade your weaponry. Switch to red mage and just accept that you're gonna be melee. 

    And finally, learn what companions set and detonate abilities, and bring them for big bursts. 

    Good luck friend. I'm with you, this is NOT a Dragon Age game. I don't even know what they were doing and my only hope is that this really hit them in the wallet and they read some of these threads to get a clue why.

    • starbar434's avatar
      starbar434
      Seasoned Novice

      You do just have to treat this like a souls game.

      Its just so disappointing that the devs got so focused on this stupid soulslike trend that they didn't care at all about the existing fan base. But yeah, I did use the term "diet soulslike" in one of my replies because this certainly isn't as intense, but like you said this isn't dragon age. 

      I don't know what red mage is but I'm guessing you meant spellblade, which is the spec I'm playing. I did have my workshop as upgraded as I was able and same for all my gear and my party's gear. And I'm not like "pro level gamer" or whatever, but I'm also not bad at it, I switch most games to hardmode once I figure out what I'm doing and how the mechanics work without much issue. There really does seem to be a major tuning issue. Here's what I said in a reply a few mins ago:

      I did end up using custom settings to turn down enemy dmg, health, and aggression to the lowest setting which barely made corius survivable, and that honestly made me wonder if the enemy aggression setting is even working as intended. The frequency of attacks did not slow down one bit; I still ended up getting stunlocked a couple times and only finished the fight because the boss wasn't hitting as hard.

      I am really hoping something just isn't working correctly and it gets fixed, because I would hate to think that this is the new direction of this series which I have loved so much since origins came out.

      • cornerbite's avatar
        cornerbite
        Seasoned Novice

        Red mage is just me being annoyed at them blatantly ripping off Red Mage in FFXIV. Oh, we have to do something for melee because we killed back-line mages I KNOW LETS USE A RAPIER AND AN ORB!

        So original. Really just rubbed me the wrong way that we have to play melee characters in the literal SEAT of mage power. And that they couldn't even be original about it.

  • centSIKES's avatar
    centSIKES
    Seasoned Newcomer

    Normal mode mage here - I went through and beat all optional champion bosses at a level deficit of 15 or more: changing up your whole weapon and armour set to match the vulnerability type of the bosses really matters until you have enough high level gear and skills unlocked to brute force a fight.  Also seek out the statues that give +100 health and the other ones that give you +1 skill point.  Check to see if you have accessories/armour that synergize with an element type.  I also found that I preferred orb and dagger combat over staff combat - but I would keep a staff of a different element on hand to cover any resistances any enemy might have until I got strong enough to brute force it.

    The game tells you when you are about to get attacked - pay attention to the queues and pace your attacks so you’re not stuck in an attacking animation when you need to block.  Mage Rook dodges faster than they can block - you can animation cancel into a dodge but not into a block.  When in doubt just dodge.  If you’re against a single target, locking on makes this much easier as you can dodge behind them easier.  Rook gets spidey-sense when an attack is swinging in - you don’t have to block just dodge.  In coming AoE attacks are shown on the ground in red - don’t be there.  Unless you’re at the center of a dragon stomp you can dodge out of the way before it hits.  Dragons have a red glow/outline on their body when they’re about to lunge/swipe/kick - dodge.  For the lunge (I suck at this one) don’t commit to dodging until it’s already done its hop and has chosen a trajectory, then sprint and/or dodge out of the way.  If you find you’re getting swarmed Frost Nova is an invaluable tool - use it to escape and reposition.  The casting animation comes out fast and is on a cool down instead of costing mana which is useful when you want to save your mana for damaging spells or you are out of mana.  It freezes all enemies in place to give you time to reposition.  Aside from dragons - don’t bring it against dragons, it does nothing.  

    Companions are unkillable - if you need to run until the enemy AI falls off of you and switches to them, then do so. The main bulk of their dps comes from setting up or detonating skills.  Bring companions that use attack types that the enemy doesn’t resist and can prime/detonate off of each other or Rooks abilities.  Aside from Darrin’s and Taash’s Taunt to take heat off of you I think Taash and Harding have skills that can make you invulnerable for a short period of time.  Bring someone, or two someone’s, who can force feed Rook healing potions.  Run around and dodge until those skills come off cool down if necessary.

    Once you have runes for your the dagger use them.  I don’t know when each one is found but I think Besiege (for 20sec attacks vs barriers/armour isn’t penalized) and Ravage (for 20sec, +50% damage to health) are found early on.  Use besiege to strip armour and barriers, then ravage for a good damage boost to their naked health bar.  Even better if you make sure your hardest hitting spells are off cooldown and ready to cast once you proc ravage.

    I retooled my entire skill tree from Evoker with points in Area/Control spell nodes and buffs to Staff combat (which I didn’t like) to Mourn Watcher with nodes for Duration/Area spells and buffs that would work with orb and dagger combat (which I found I prefer over staff combat).  I only did this once I noticed I had an armour set and weapon set that heavily buffed necrotic damage.  I’m at the point where it doesn’t matter if the enemy resists necrotic damage - my buffs completely over compensate.

    My gameplay loop is dodge into the thickest group of enemies and Frost Nova.  As soon as the casting animation is done use an area spell that does DoT damage to the frozen targets and is a primer.  Use a companion ability that triggers a detonation.  Wail on everything until I’m ready to do it all over again.  Proc besiege when I see armour/barriers, proc ravage on red health bars.  My ranged attack (laser beam) is tooled to do more damage to armour/barriers too so I use that a lot.

    • centSIKES's avatar
      centSIKES
      Seasoned Newcomer

      Hopefully this blurry gif works - here’s the combo:

      dodge in to the priority target or group of enemies (sometimes I bait them into chasing me so I can get them all at once) > freeze with Frost Nova* > activate rune > select primer (for me this is Corrupted Ground since I have a necrotic build) > select companions detonator = profit.
      *Frost Nova doesn’t freeze dragons so skip this step if you’re fighting one of them.  Afaik all other bosses freeze.

      I throw a 2nd primer/detonator at the end as I upgraded my ranged attack to have an alt fire that detonates sundered targets.  I’m at a higher level here but I’ve been using this tactic for the majority of my gameplay.

      I fought the optional boss behind the locked door that requires the 3 champion essences in the crossroads at 17 levels under and I managed to hit the delicious 9,999 damage using this combo (I subbed out Frost Nova for something else).  That boss takes neutral damage from necrotic damage iirc.  That was the boss that made me retool my build and skill tree lol because I had invested my build up until that point into the element it resisted.