This is a thread I wanted to start so everyone on here can have their ideas seen and heard by EA_Shepard and other EA Staff while also having a single, organized place to share them. This in turn ma...
First, I heard a saying about men knowing everything about s** and football - neither is true. LOL
I remember the early 90's when my dorm mates and I debating why the Option would never see the light of day in the NFL. Players make to much money, defenders are too smart, too fast... blah, blah, blah... Now that we're all in our 50's, we watch Read Option and RPO's every week in the NFL. The morale to the story - Football ain't football until it becomes football; but once it becomes football it is always football. Remember back when running sideways at the goal line to run the clock was a Madden only phenomenon? Then Brandon Stokely did it in a real game for the first time. Brian Westbrook going down before scoring a TD? Another Madden contribution to the the real life game. Not football, until it was football, but now it's football.
Regarding the days of DB Fire 2 as the META... DB Fire 2 was the perfect defense to use against players that followed YouTube trends from Pro players.
One habit that Pro players pass down is a technique I call the "Shotgun Sprint Drop" It's where a Shotgun passer takes the snap, allows the CPU to complete the autodrop, then sprints back about 3 steps to a point that is approximately 10 yards behind the LOS, where they setup to pass. Against most pressure schemes, that spot is perfect to defeat pass rush angles; but against the DB Fire 2, the DB's coming off the edge can through unblocked to put pressure on the spot the QB drops to... It's also good against read option plays.
Another habit Pro players pass down uses PA Pass blocking to buy time. Again, the DB Fire 2 defeated the PA pass blocking because they two blitzing DB's rush at the perfect angle to attack the pocket when the QB drops to 10 yards AND if the PA has a rollout he has even less time to throw.
A third habit Pro players pass down is the use of Shotgun Inside Zone run plays... Not only are these predictable because they HB always runs opposite the side he lines up. A defender using DB Fire 2 can easily stop this run because they know where it's going, they have enough defenders spread across the box to occupy all the blockers, and the 2 rushing DB's eliminate the potential of bouncing it outside. A skilled User, can easily plug the hole even if he's blocked...
If a player exhibited all these tendencies, DB Fire 2 was the ideal defense. People hated how effective it was; however, I remember the DB Fire 2 days fondly... The defense was completely ineffective against my "Plain Jane Under Center Basic Ball" scheme. I'm NEVER in shotgun, rarely drop beyond a 5-steps, and run the ball with a FB.
Most Madden players don't think schematically about alignments and therefore don't recognize the DB Fire 2 alignment to be merely an exaggerated 3-4 Wide alignment with the DB speed on the edges. And since many haven't watched football during the 70's-Today, they might not know how to create a numbers mismatch to attack the 5 interior defenders nearest the ball. The latter can't be done nearly as well from shotgun as from I-Form or Singleback Ace, for instance.
So instead - they use words like Overpowered, AI glitch, and calls for immediate patches - because it's easier to attack EA than to attack the football...
So, in those days, when I saw opponents using DB Fire 2, I made the same adjustments I'd use against a 3-4 defense . Singleback Ace (same formation Joe Gibbs used to neutralize Lawrence Taylor) places a TE inside the rushing DB's on each side. From that formation, HB Dive and HB Power bash them and consistently pick up yards. When they adjust to these runs to the middle, HB Stretch forces him to send the DBs to respect the edge... If that didn't work, I'd just put the FB in the I-Form. From there I can run Inside Zone (with an extra blocker that isn't in shotgun formations), HB Iso (hat on a hat), Power (send a G at the user), FB Dive (quick hitter).
Needless to say, the DB Fire 2 is still a GREAT DEFENSE against people that borrow schemes from YouTube without concerning themselves as to how the strategy works. If I meet a guy with the habits listed above, I'll call DB Fire 2 and prepare to stop the Inside Zone - which is the most dangerous threat a shotgun formation could pose.
MaddenUniversity Lol, I like that saying! I also LOVE me some I-Formation. Literally it's my favorite, and I've been running minimum 6 different sets out of IForm; including Power I and Maryland I. I absolutely love running the ball! It's been my favorite thing since I was a kid growing up watching Barry run the ball. I still think your under center offense sounds pretty awesome. You know your football for sure. Do you have your custom playbook uploaded for others to download?
Talk about blanket statement words like overpowered though, even the pros said DB Fire 2 was OP in 17 and 18. Is DB Fire 2 still Meta or has it fallen off a bit? I don't have time for H2H really anymore and I don't watch the YouTuber guys nearly as much anymore either, so I have no clue. I know it was still widely used in 22 and 23 when I played last, but I'm literally just not sure. You'd probably know more on that than I would.
Yes! To get the custom playbooks I've shared, search by Username 'TNT713'. If you're looking for to start your custom playbook from scratch - these defensive and offensive playbooks have 1 play each:
ONEPLAYDEFSTART - 4-3: Over:: Cover 1 Sting Wk
ONEPLAYOFFXX0 - Singleback: Doubles Flex:: TE Post
Build your offense or defense however you want. Ideal for players that want to dabble with customizing their offense from scratch, with virtually nothing. Replace the anchor play with your own... Check out an episode of "One Knee = Two Feet" that features a Playbook segment that walks thru adding a 6-play set to the playbook, including setting the audibles.
I consider these to be the minimum standards for building an offensive playbook from scratch:
No Shotgun
Under Center formations ONLY
At least 3 formations
At least 2 sets per formation
At least 6 plays per set
Two anchor plays (1 run, 1 pass) per set
PA must match anchor run action
It takes about 30 minutes to build a playbook from scratch to fit these criterion - if you know what you want. It's quicker if you use every play in a formation - but you have to watch your play count (500 max). At 36 plays, it's good for a game. I start with Weak I, Singleback, and I-Form every year - build a 36 play playbook - then add plays to it throughout the year.
These are full playbooks:
1KNEE2FEETOFF01 - My working playbook. The "Red Flag Challenge" invites Madden players to send 6 plays from any under center set, I run those plays on the opening drive my show "One Knee = Two Feet". When I add plays to the playbook on the show, This is the playbook I'm editing.
NEVERSHOTGUN005 - My Madden 26 masterpiece (retired after 10W streak in Dec 25). Two Hail Mary plays, which can't be removed, are the only shotgun plays. It features at least one set from every under center formation - 6 plays per formation - so there is room for YOU to build.
I-Form is easily the most underrated formation in Madden. IMO, it is the best formation ever used to keep A-Gap blitzes off my QB while creating a viable run threat to either side. Just a FB behind the QB solves virtually every nano-blitz problem. My offensive philosophy mixes Air Coryell, K-Gun, and West Coast with Marty Ball.
Talk about blanket statement words like overpowered though, even the pros said DB Fire 2 was OP in 17 and 18. Is DB Fire 2 still Meta or has it fallen off a bit? I don't have time for H2H really anymore and I don't watch the YouTuber guys nearly as much anymore either, so I have no clue. I know it was still widely used in 22 and 23 when I played last, but I'm literally just not sure. You'd probably know more on that than I would.
So... the Pros calling something OP means nothing to me. When I hear anyone say OP, glitch, or AI exploit what I hear is - I don't wanna, I shouldn't have to, make someone else fix it.
Seriously... what does OP even mean? Was Vince Lombardi's Packer Sweep OP? Was the 49er Slant play OP? Was Tom Brady OP? Lawrence Taylor? If OP means 'hard to stop' - SO WHAT! If stopping an OP tactic leaves you open to something else - SO WHAT! When teams sold out to stop the Packer Sweep, they ran a FB dive. Sounds like football to me.
That said... I haven't seen anyone spamming DB Fire 2 in a while. I think part of the reason it seemed OP back then is because the Fire 2 family of coverage was still newish. Match coverage has been around longer now, we've had more looks and can attack it better - especially because they are much EASIER to foul up as a user defender without deep understanding of match coverage principles (I don't have it, but I'm working on it).
It's still a problem for people that have the tendencies it's designed to attack... I only use it when my opponent fits that unique set of tendencies I listed in the post above.
MaddenUniversity NEVERSHOTGUN005 is the one I'm looking forward to trying! I had to look up those philosophy terms, but after learning about them I do love that scheme blend a lot. I love the Detroit Lions, and I love me a good Vertical, run first, PA Pass scheme. It's how I designed my playbook, and I too enjoy having that splash of west coast in there to adjust on the fly when all else fails. I'm really looking forward to trying out that playbook at somepoint when I finally get back on Madden for another year in my franchise.
MaddenUniversitywrote:
Seriously... what does OP even mean? Was Vince Lombardi's Packer Sweep OP? Was the 49er Slant play OP? Was Tom Brady OP? Lawrence Taylor? If OP means 'hard to stop' - SO WHAT!
Lol, what's funny is that it's highly likely every single one of those things you mentioned have probably been called OP by someone at some point! By your observation though, I think you make pretty valid points on why it's likely not as popular and likewise why it was used so much back in the day. I honestly never use it anymore, but I only play vs. CPU now in my offline franchise.
Have fun with that playbook. There's room to expand it since I only carry 6 plays per formation. Go nuts!
There's some Full House and Split T in there too. Since I don't have a legit FB on the Panther roster, I used Rookie TE Mitchell Evans at FB and have a set of plays where I run No-Huddle with 3 backs Rico Dowdle, Mitchell Evans, and Chuba Hubbard. While my WR are on the sideline getting rest, my bench RB and FB are beating them up in the middle. From that formation, I can audible to Goal Line, Strong I Jumbo, Near Jumbo.
I'll run it back, to back, to back between the 35's. By the time my WR get back in the game, his DBs have had to fight off big blockers and make tackles. Then it's Spread 'Em and Shred 'Em with 4WR Run-n-Shoot.
I might bring it out of retirement for a couple games. 😁
MaddenUniversity Absolutley I will! I wanna get at least one more season done in my franchise but I've been on WWE 2K26 recently and not been up to much else, so I'll have to get back on there at some point. Do you plan to carry or replicate any of those playbooks over to M27?
Do you plan to carry or replicate any of those playbooks over to M27?
The playbooks? No. The process? YES.
This is my process every year:
Boot up Madden
Change Settings
Choose any stock Playbook
Remove all shotgun plays [SAVE]
Add anchor play - Singleback : ??? : TE Post [SAVE]
Remove all other plays [SAVE]
Upload ONEPLAYOFF to share
Add 36 plays total (6 plays each across 2 sets in 3 formations) [SAVE]
Set audibles [SAVE]
Play a game with minimal game ready playbook
The core plays tend to stick around from year to year, but the situational plays change. For example, In I-Form, I may start with 6 plays each from Pro and Slot Open sets. I'll run three I-form Pro plays a multiple times a game as my base offense, the other three are plays are purely situational. I only run Slot Open in certain situations, but within that set of situations I have a separate set of situations that I use when I'm in that formation because it's the only personnel set that won't allow audibles to another formations.
I'd say that about 50% of the playbook is base plays that I run every game, the other half is situational and changes from year-to-year or even playbook to playbook. Although it starts with 36 plays, I add plays after a losing streak begins... I add all year based on what I lacked the game before. That way, each playbook evolves based on fixing the reasons I lose. By the end of the year, the playbook is about 80% situational plays - 20% base.
That would be a really cool way to build it out, because it feels less like you’re just picking a playbook and more like you’re stress-testing a system over the whole year. Madden already gives you a lot to work with there, between stock playbooks, audibles, hot routes, custom stems, and pre-play adjustments, so I get why your process is more about building a foundation first and then letting the situational stuff grow off whatever gave you trouble in the last game. I also like the way you separate base calls from “I needed this because I got burned last week” calls, because that’s honestly where a lot of people probably get stuck. Have you ever tried keeping two versions of the same book during the year, one super lean, one for testing, and one fuller, one for game-day, just to see if it helps you spot which additions are actually helping and which are just there because they looked good in the moment?
MaddenUniversity Well I can dig the process for sure. Though I'd like to get another season in my franchise done and try out the NEVERSHOTGUN playbook, I just don't know if I'm going to end up firing M26 anymore, but that's just why I asked. Because even if I don't get back on M26, whatever you plan on uploading for M27 is going to be what I am going to wanna try out. I just wanna make sure I don't miss out basically.
Considering the process though, I'm curious to get deeper insight on how you go about it. For me it's always been add a bunch from formations I like; trial and error. However, I'd like to be more efficient and refined with my playbooks process. So in saying that, how different should my process be (if at all) considering I play franchsie with playcall limits? Probably would need more plays I assume, but does that mean larger base? More situational? Both?? What are your thoughts?
Have you ever tried keeping two versions of the same book during the year, one super lean, one for testing, and one fuller, one for game-day, just to see if it helps you spot which additions are actually helping and which are just there because they looked good in the moment?
I haven't... But I'm currently in the midst of my WORST losing streak of the year (-8), so I might adopt this approach in tonight's game sessions. I'm thinking my losses are coming for a number of reasons:
Too Aggressive on 4th Down
Not aggressive enough on 4th Down
Telegraphing Pressure
Over Disguising Pressure
Being predictable on 1st Down
Poor Execution
Analysis with the tools I have shows me that I'm beating myself - so I modify my actions and I get back to winning games (hopefully).
My 'system' has developed over a lot of years playing thousands of games and results in an offense and play style that is quintessentially MINE. That ownership, from the building the scheme to executing it, is mine as well - for better or worse.
My philosophy of limiting offensive plays to 6 plays per formation, derives from 2nd Edition of "The Complete Idiots Guide to Football" by Joe Theismann and Brian Tarcy. I don't have a copy here, but there is a part where Joe T reveals that the Redskins only had 6 basic plays in each weekly game plan; they just ran them from multiple formations.
When custom playbooks began, I tried to adopt that idea. HB Dive and Stretch were my runs in almost every formation. It worked for a while, then it didn't. So I started blending run concepts ans spreading across formations.
For example... Suppose I start with 2 sets from I-Form. Ideally, I'll have at least 2 run plays in each set (4 plays). That gives me room for an Iso, Power, Inside Zone, and a Stretch. I generally pair the Iso and the Stretch in one set, while the Inside Zone and Power might go in the other set. On the field, I have access to all of these run plays via audibles because the two formations use the same personnel. As far as execution goes, I'm running to the same hole in the Power and the Inside Zone, due to the blocking, my opponent can't defend both plays the same way. My execution is virtually the same; my opponent has to execute differently.
Over the course of the year, as I face situations I don't have answers for, I add plays to fit the situation where I lack. Usually these plays address a specific tendency I might see - often, I add plays and NEVER see the situation I put them in the playbook to address. That's especially true in my defensive playbook.
Another thing I do is check the Leaderboards so I can compare key stats with the top 100 (or friends). I look at W/L, of course, but while I also look at Streak, Sacks, Turnovers, and 3rd Down%; I'm most interested in Unique Offense and Defensive Plays, where my average would almost always places me in the top 5. Right now, I think I'm sitting at about 18.00 Unique plays on both sides of the ball. I generally take about 25-40 snaps a game on either side of the ball... 18 of those plays get called once and ONLY ONCE.
That said, I want to get a copy of my game reports (team stats, player stats) so I can analyze them and find out what patterns I exhibit that cause me to lose games.
Considering the process though, I'm curious to get deeper insight on how you go about it. For me it's always been add a bunch from formations I like; trial and error. However, I'd like to be more efficient and refined with my playbooks process. So in saying that, how different should my process be (if at all) considering I play franchsie with playcall limits? Probably would need more plays I assume, but does that mean larger base? More situational? Both?? What are your thoughts?
I really think the process differs for each of us, and is based on what problems we want to solve... for me, I know that if I run the ball 15 times, I'm going to win 80% of those games. Most of my long scores come off of either I-Form HB Power (6x) or Weak I HB Gut (3x). I run the Gut first with a specific motion that establishes it as a threat that forces the defense to run man coverage, then I use the motion to setup an expectation, then run the Power the other direction. That said, I think you might be able to use a 36 play playbook even in a Franchise with playcall limits IF you also integrate the audible system I use.
Each set has 6 plays... 4 of these plays are set as audibles. Theoretically, I call the 2 plays that aren't in the audibles which leaves me a binary choice. Suppose I'm in I-Form Close my plays might be:
Mesh
*HB Iso
HB Power
*HB Counter
PA Power O
PA Rollout
The two plays with the * are the only two plays I'd call, then I'd audible when I got to the line so I always have at least 5 of the 6 plays available. If I call a play that is already an audible, I'd only have 4 plays available to change to. If my personnel set allows audible to other formations, I'll have 4 more options to audible to. Because I only have 6 plays per set, I'll have access to the entire playbook.
Most of my plays are situational. Some are so situational, I never call them because the specific situation so rarely presents itself. But when it's 3rd & 13, the ball is on the left hash, my opponent likes to blitz the right corner, my WR is taller than his DB, my opponent reacts to motion by rotating Cover 3 to the field side, and we need a FG to tie in the last 2-minutes - I'll have the perfect play. There's usually only one play per set this specific - but they exist in the PB solely for that purpose.
Essentially, I use my base plays to setup predictable situations for my situational plays - so I can call them. In my videos, I'll often say something like "He's doing Tactic A - I have something for that". If I don't have something for it, it's time to expand the playbook. Careful though... too many plays make it hard to figure out which one fits the situation at hand.
MaddenUniversity I'll be the first to admit you're thinking at a level I'm quite not capable yet when it comes to the situational stuff and noticing fine details on the field that allow you to prepare for such situations. I still don't have enough football knowledge to read the field at pro level. I feel I've finally reached a point I'm really starting to master the geometry of it; recognizing leverage, certain coverages pre and post snap, and usually being able to get a guy open based on what I see at the line. I also screw up a lot though, because having only that geometry aspect and the vision that comes with that means I guess wrong a lot too on how guys will react and whatnot. However, a lot of the recognization that comes with knowing the X's and O's, and knowing the fine details to formations and how things operate at an intricate level is still beyond me. So I can see where I screw up a lot in the moment, but I lack the understanding of why a lot of times because I still don't have intimate football knowledge. I need a coach basically. I'll be making my way through your videos, but still have a long way to go and a lot left to learn.
My motto has always been, "why let the CPU mess up what I'm perfectly capable of messing up myself?"
It helps I've always been obsessive about football long before Madden became a year-round passion. I always take my losses, watch film, never feel 'good enough' is good enough, and only truly lose if I don't learn anything.
Don't get me wrong. I still get WHOOPED! (often)
I make similar mistakes in poor performances. Bad habits, deeply ingrained by years of muscle memory. I still have trouble using the D-Pad to make defensive adjustments. My fingers want to use the Shoulder buttons (L1/R1) for Defensive Line and Linebackers respectively. If you notice anytime I'm calling a D-Line or LB shift, the legend is on the screen longer than when I make coverage adjustments. Coverage adjustments have always been at Triangle.
MaddenUniversity Well it's definitely good to know I'm not the only one, lol! I have all the same issues when it comes to muscle memory and old habits, and now it looks like they'll be switching up adjustments a bit again this year, so that'll be another thing to have to practice and get used to. All for the better though!
Just in terms of situational football though, just to elaborate, due to the lack of knowledge, I just have a hard time even recognizing the situation a lot of the time. Like I literally just don't even know what just happened at times. I'm left stumped. Thankfully I've gone up against a couple of good football people in the past that were nice enough to explain the situation after the fact so I know how they did what they did and what I did wrong, but none of them are on my friends list to consult with or refine my game either. Tbh, it has played a part in why I felt REGS weren't worth playing for me anymore. Time and schedule were always a factor, but I felt I needed to get better at football too and most people are not very helpful in the growth factor if you know what I'm saying.