Re: Mass Effect 4 Continued from where?

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@SofaJockeyUK wrote:

<snip>

... I'm expecting ME5 to be set some hundreds of years beyond ME34.

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Fixed that for ya'.  🙌

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@ThandalNLyman wrote:

Fixed that for ya'.  🙌

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Interesting. I had expected ME5 to fall within the lifetime of MEA characters but perhaps it will be even later.

It's all guesswork for now... 🤔

@SofaJockeyUK 

I agree with you, it must be in the lifetime of the longer living ME3 characters, we saw Liara, so it should be in the lifetime of the MEA characters.

@ThandalNLyman Why do you think it will be hundreds of years after Andromeda? 🤔

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@holger1405 wrote:

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@ThandalNLymanWhy do you think it will be hundreds of years after Andromeda? 🤔

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'Cuz I'm like Peebee; always looking for the "new", not the "been there/done that".

And (based on the ME3 Epilogue slides and depending on your exact decision at the end) the post-Reaper Milky Way (even after the 600 years of the MEA voyage) looks like it would be pretty much the same as the pre-Reaper one.

Far more interested in learning more about the Scourge, the Kett, the Jardaan, and Ryder-1. 🤓

@ThandalNLyman 

I don't know about that, 600 years + is a long time. 😉

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@holger1405 wrote:

I don't know about that, 600 years + is a long time. 😉

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For Humans, maybe, (and Salarians!)  But one definitely gets the impression that Asari and Krogan cultures don't really change much over a century-or-two.

And as I said, I'd be more interested in the Jardaan than what Matriarch Liara is up to.  🙌

@ThandalNLyman 

I would like to see both. 😁

I really love the ME Trilogy characters, but I have to agree with @ThandalNLyman with this, I MUCH prefer they continue into Andromeda and all the interesting story lines they have there.  We have done the Milky Way, and to me trying to top the big bad of the Reapers would be not so good of an idea, a smaller scale ME doesn't really seem to fit the series, and if you just make every ending of ME3 turn into the same setup it lessens the impact of ME3 endings.  Who cares if you destroyed the Reapers, now control them, or if everyone is part machine....you are all in this XXXX staring space in the new Milky Way ME5!!!!....yeah, no.

Also as Thandal said, 600 years is like 40 or so years in human scale for them....while things would have changed a bit, it wouldn't be enough to overhaul individual ME3 endings.  I think if they put the effort into a really good game, a sequel to MEA could do well, as long as they don't make tired faces and don't try to cram too much stuff into the game, let it build over multiple games.

My hope is for it to be an ME3 sequel and and Andromeda prequel. My fan theory has always been that the Andromeda races are not alien enough and that they may also originate from the Milky Way but got to Andromeda sooner.

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@SofaJockeyUK wrote:

Mass Effect Andromeda = Mass Effect 4

Mass Effect 5 is the next game

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I will be a contrarian and call this Mass Effect 7! 😉

Seriously, though, if it's a direct sequel to Mass Effect 3, I'm fine with people calling it Mass Effect 4, just because I see Andromeda as a spinoff in the same way the Jacob game was (though not on the same scale).

I'm virtually certain it will get a subtitle not a number.

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@SofaJockeyUK wrote:

I'm virtually certain it will get a subtitle not a number.

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We can hope!  I've always felt that a lot of the shade thrown on DA2 could have been prevented if they had named it, Dragon Age: Champion of Kirkwall (or something like that) instead of using a title that made (some) people expect a direct sequel to the previous one.

As long as Shepard is back they can call it whatever they want 😃

All joking aside, I don't know why Andromeda got such a bad reputation (as a game), if they didn't drop the ball and gotten all the bugs fixed and continued the series it is a great game as a spin-off.

Saying that, they can not continue ME4 as part of Andromeda as 600 years apart would probably mean all the original characters are already dead.

Yes Liara was about 21 in ME1 which would make her 621 if they continued the storyline of ME:A , Wrex was around 1400 already in ME3 and the rest can't live that long anyway.

I would rather they continue the ME game as part of the original series (we still have the creators of the reapers to deal with) and leave ME:A alone.

If they can continue ME:A and make ME:A2 I would love that, as there is so much to learn there and another ark to look for.

So my own opinion would be, leave ME:A make ME4 the continuation of ME3 (with a few years past, as they had to search for Shepard I bet).

We know both the trilogy and Andromeda will play a part (BioWare hints).

We also know BioWare will tell the story they want to tell, it's not going to be a 'fan requests compilation' (fans want different things anyway).

Liara was 106 at the time of ME1 (barely more than a teenager).

She could well have travelled to Andromeda (frozen) so even 600 years is no big deal and have come back the same way, so 1,200 years.

If BioWare wanted some 'old' crew they could simply have travelled along with.

After 1,200 years the events of the trilogy endings may have ended up approximately the same place.

Destroy - The AI lifeforms built up again (as the catalyst predicted) 'your children will create synthetics and then the chaos will come back'.

Control - Peace arrives but for how long will the Shep-Control entity last?

Synthesis - There is a new DNA, but evolution takes its own journey to who knows where.

I don't think it is a given that Shepard is back - we've only seen a bit of armor.

If that were to happen, being brought back from the dead or cloned has been done before.

So lots of room to press ahead in frankly any direction they want to.

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@ThandalNLyman wrote:

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@SofaJockeyUK wrote:

I'm virtually certain it will get a subtitle not a number.

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We can hope!  I've always felt that a lot of the shade thrown on DA2 could have been prevented if they had named it, Dragon Age: Champion of Kirkwall (or something like that) instead of using a title that made (some) people expect a direct sequel to the previous one.

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Originally, the title was going to be Dragon Age: Exodus, but apparently it got changed because people would think it was an expansion instead of a sequel.

The third one was originally announced as Dragon Age III: Inquisition. Then they dropped the number, and now DA2's title sticks out even more. They should just remaster the series and change the title of DA2 to Exodus. 😛

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@mcsupersport  schrieb:

I really love the ME Trilogy characters, but I have to agree with @ThandalNLyman with this, I MUCH prefer they continue into Andromeda and all the interesting story lines they have there.  We have done the Milky Way,

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We also have done Andromeda. 😜
Why not both?

If they, and it seam like it, address both galaxies the can tell both stories.  

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@holger1405 wrote:

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We also have done Andromeda. 😜
Why not both?

If they, and it seam like it, address both galaxies the can tell both stories.  

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We have done Andromeda??  Ok, who are the Jardan??  Where did they come from??  Who destroyed them??  Civil War??  Where are the Kett from??  Will they come back to the new Colonies??  We haven't DONE Andromeda, we have barely dipped our toes in the waters of Andromeda, whereas the Milky Way would require some hand waving and not looking too close to allow a continuation of story without overwriting some peoples ending.  NO, 600 years wouldn't be enough, maybe 5000 would and a total change of all cultures, but then why do that just to continue in the Milky Way.  IF you hand wave and say 600 years has past and all endings end up at XXXX point, then it just proves the RGB endings were all the same anyway.  Not to mention, I can't see a good reason to dismiss every living thing in a Galaxy becoming a hybrid-machine by space magic, as ohh, things aren't any different if you left it alone and it occurred because XXX event happened 200 years after the Reapers died.  And yeah, that was EVERY LIVING THING and all AI in the Galaxy becoming hybrids, even on worlds we haven't found or even know of.......

Again, Bioware wrote an ending that basically ended future story telling in the Galaxy without creating a Cannon run for Shepard, so they should just buck up and fix Andromeda as the new place to tell stories.  There is so much available there, without the ending controversy that while the stuffed up MEA in many ways, it still set the stage for new Mass Effect to continue.

@mcsupersport 

I know where you coming from mc, but I can think of at lest several easy solutions for the "Canon" ending problem and many people chose "Synthesis" as "there" ending, I don't like it either, but that does not mean that they who choose it choose wrong, it is a matter of opinion.
And they who control the narrative can also find a way to navigate around this problem, how good of an explanation it will be remains to be seen.

As for the endings, many things in Mass Effect were "Space Magic" before the ending, it was just not under scrutiny because people liked the "Space Magic" up to some point. 😉

As you know, I like Andromeda, imho it is a really good game, but it did not worked out as it should be. There are many reasons for that, for some Bioware is to blame, for others not so much.

The point is that it did not performed well, so bringing the Milky way back to the mix is imho a good idea.

I was reluctant about it as well, but the more I think about it there more I like it.

This way they can anwser open questions about Andromeda and add new content independent from a game that was underperforming.

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@holger1405 wrote:

@mcsupersport 

I know where you coming from mc, but I can think of at lest several easy solutions for the "Canon" ending problem and many people chose "Synthesis" as "there" ending, I don't like it either, but that does not mean that they who choose it choose wrong, it is a matter of opinion.
And they who control the narrative can also find a way to navigate around this problem, how good of an explanation it will be remains to be seen.

As for the endings, many things in Mass Effect were "Space Magic" before the ending, it was just not under scrutiny because people liked the "Space Magic" up to some point. 😉

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My point about Synthesis ending isn't whether it is right or wrong, but more that it creates a situation that changes the fundamental fabric of the Universe.  Making every living thing and all AI and possibly all machines into Hybrid Organic Synthetic lifeforms isn't really compatible with a Destroy ending in 500 years.  You can more easily see a Destroy and Control being similar in say 1000 years, if you say Control Shepard "left" ,"deteriorated", or otherwise no longer around and Destroy, but to have the Synthesis ending accounted for is stretching it a bit.

Now as far as "space Magic" goes, yeah to a point, but Bioware took great pains to create an underlying system of "Science and reason" ,aka lore, for all the things that don't actually work quite like we know them to work now.  You had to suspend belief and accept the precepts of the Bioware ME Universe to enjoy the game, but they did create this system....then they blew it up for Green Synthesis and to a point Red Destroy.  The basic reason for the wave working to Synthesis was "advanced technology beyond human understanding...."  and Destroy for killing the Geth, was because we said so.  "Advanced Technology beyond Human Understanding...." as a reason is saying a space mage did it, and breaks the suspension of belief for many people, maybe it doesn't bother you, but to me it does.  At no point does Bioware ever create a system of science in the ME Universe that can explain how an energy wave can and meld organic and machines into a living stable item, create or alter the mass of the organism to create the missing side either organic or synthetic, do it across all the Universe, take but seconds to do it, and somehow use Shepard DNA to make it work, even on beings that don't in anyway share Human DNA.  This was pure because we said so, it s a cool ending, hand wave, just go with it.  Destroy killing the Geth was simply done to make it a harder decision and to heck with the lore of the last two games and all the things you learned about said Geth...THEY WERE SOFTWARE.... 

Now if you chose Synthesis, Control, or Destroy, you SHOULD NOT have your ending story overwritten simply because Bioware doesn't want to put in the work dealing with the Andromeda issue like they should have.  The endings Bioware chose to write, IF they stick to them, preclude continuing the story in any time close to the end of ME3 in the Milky Way Galaxy(excluding making multiple versions of the game and assets to cover the different endings).  In 50k years it could work, in 100k years it could work, but anything less to me doesn't if for no other reason than 600 years is half an Asari/Krogan lifetime, and thus no real change would occur in their Biology due to evolution.  The Salarians would change the most in that time, being that it is between 12-30 generations for them and similar to that for humans, but even then look back into our history, and see that we haven't changed physically all that much since the 1400s which would be a similar time scale what I am talking about, heck even going back 2000 years and humans haven't changed a massive amount physically. 

So maybe you wouldn't mind the hand wave to get a new Milky Way ME, but to me it would be the worst choice.  Yeah, I am probably in the minority in this thought, but that is how I feel.  What will Bioware do??  No clue, but Shepard is money in the bank, so if you ask me to guess, well........hand waving incoming....

@Psychotps Rumor mill was they had a major story leak near end of production and changed the endings after that. By rumor a couple of the bigwigs went into a room and hammered out the new endings and then went to the team and said make this now.
Don't know if that is true but it sounds like it could have happened, but then that is what makes the best tall tales too.

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@mcsupersport wrote:

My point about Synthesis ending isn't whether it is right or wrong, but more that it creates a situation that changes the fundamental fabric of the Universe.  Making every living thing and all AI and possibly all machines into Hybrid Organic Synthetic lifeforms isn't really compatible with a Destroy ending in 500 years.  You can more easily see a Destroy and Control being similar in say 1000 years, if you say Control Shepard "left" ,"deteriorated", or otherwise no longer around and Destroy, but to have the Synthesis ending accounted for is stretching it a bit.

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         It still only needs a good story to change that.

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mcsupersport wrote:

Now as far as "space Magic" goes, yeah to a point, but Bioware took great pains to create an underlying system of "Science and reason" ,aka lore, for all the things that don't actually work quite like we know them to work now.  You had to suspend belief and accept the precepts of the Bioware ME Universe to enjoy the game, but they did create this...then they blew it up for Green Synthesis and to a point Red Destroy.  The basic reason for the wave working to Synthesis was "advanced technology beyond human understanding...."  and Destroy for killing the Geth, was because we said so.  "Advanced Technology beyond Human Understanding...." as a reason is saying a space mage did it, and breaks the suspension of belief for many people, maybe it doesn't bother you, but to me it does. 
At no point does Bioware ever create a system of science in the ME Universe that can explain how an energy wave can and meld organic and machines into a living stable item, create or alter the mass of the organism to create the missing side either organic or synthetic, do it across all the Universe, take but seconds to do it, and somehow use Shepard DNA to make it work, even on beings that don't in anyway share Human DNA

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They never explained how a human being could fall from space to the ground of a Planet (with an atmosphere.) but it was still enough left of her/him to get resurrect.

They never explained how a Thresher maw could be even remotely possible.

Omni tools, about any Tech ability...  I could go on for quite some time. 😉

As said, the space magic was fine, as long as people liked it. It was only brought up after many didn't liked the ending, as an argument against the ending, and only there.

It indeed never bothered me. There is Space magic in about any Sci-fi universe I ever encountered, it is just how things are.

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mcsupersport wrote:

This was pure because we said so, it s a cool ending, hand wave, just go with it.  Destroy killing the Geth was simply done to make it a harder decision and to heck with the lore of the last two games and all the things you learned about said Geth...THEY WERE SOFTWARE....

 Of course it was, and it was a good decision imho.
 Having "Destroy" as the all around happy ending, after this storyline, would have been extremely boring and disappointing.

  For the Get, you learned about them if you decide to learn about them, it is not a giving.
  For many the Get are already gone in the final battle.  They still slaughtered the Quarians, the still helped Saren, they still supported the Reapers after Saren.

There are more than enough good reasons not to trust them, and also to sacrifice them.

For me that make the ending good, that you indeed have to sacrifice something.

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@mcsupersport wrote:

Now if you chose Synthesis, Control, or Destroy, you SHOULD NOT have your ending story overwritten simply because Bioware doesn't want to put in the work dealing with the Andromeda issue like they should have.  The endings Bioware chose to write, IF they stick to them, preclude continuing the story in any time close to the end of ME3 in the Milky Way Galaxy(excluding making multiple versions of the game and assets to cover the different endings).  In 50k years it could work, in 100k years it could work, but anything less to me doesn't if for no other reason than 600 years is half an Asari/Krogan lifetime, and thus no real change would occur in their Biology due to evolution.  The Salarians would change the most in that time, being that it is between 12-30 generations for them and similar to that for humans, but even then look back into our history, and see that we haven't changed physically all that much since the 1400s which would be a similar time scale what I am talking about, heck even going back 2000 years and humans haven't changed a massive amount physically. .

Sorry MC, but you are manoeuvring yourself into a corner here
What you're basically saying is that Bioware should not change the players decision, but if they do, no matter how they do it, it will not work for you.

You set yourself up for disappointment, ME5 will never have a chance for you this way.

Andromeda was killed by the shitstorm, was it unfair? Yes, in my opinion it was, but it is how it is.
I can completely understand that they didn't wanted to risk more money and resources the way it was received.

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mcsupersport wrote:

So maybe you wouldn't mind the hand wave to get a new Milky Way ME, but to me it would be the worst choice.  Yeah, I am probably in the minority in this thought, but that is how I feel.  What will Bioware do??  No clue, but Shepard is money in the bank, so if you ask me to guess, well........hand waving incoming....

This ship has already sailed, the Trailer clearly shows that we are going back to the Milky Way in some form.

I think it is the best decision they could have made after Andromeda.
And that they go back to the Milky Way, (The Andromeda shot at the beginning of the trailer was intentional as Michael Gamble said.) doesn't mean Andromeda is forgotten.

I hope they connect both galaxies and both storylines. 
That way the can give us a new story and anwser open questions about Andromeda. 

@holger1405 wrote:

   

      It still only needs a good story to change that.

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mcsupersport writes:

Depends on the definition of a good story, and I can debate you on that working.

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Holger1405 wrote:

They never explained how a human being could fall from space to the ground of a Planet (with an atmosphere.) but it was still enough left of her/him to get resurrect.

They never explained how a Thresher maw could be even remotely possible.

Omni tools, about any Tech ability...  I could go on for quite some time. 😉

As said, the space magic was fine, as long as people liked it. It was only brought up after many didn't liked the ending, as an argument against the ending, and only there.

It indeed never bothered me. There is Space magic in about any Sci-fi universe I ever encountered, it is just how things are.

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mcsupersport writes:

Humans falling...agree, and I didn't like it either, along but you could argue his armor.....

Thresher Maw wasn't explained, BUT it has been in all three main trilogy games, so it has a history, and we gamers have experience with them.

Omni Tools ARE explained, and there are lore info on them in the games explaining how they work and what you can do with them. 

Again, they mostly created the systems they used and then they broke them for the endings, you are ok with this, that if fine, but we both agree they broke their own rules.

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Holger1405 wrote:

 Of course it was, and it was a good decision imho.
 Having "Destroy" as the all around happy ending, after this storyline, would have been extremely boring and disappointing.

  For the Get, you learned about them if you decide to learn about them, it is not a giving.
  For many the Get are already gone in the final battle.  They still slaughtered the Quarians, the still helped Saren, they still supported the Reapers after Saren.

There are more than enough good reasons not to trust them, and also to sacrifice them.

For me that make the ending good, that you indeed have to sacrifice something.

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mcsupersport writes:

Not liking them is still not a reason to break the rules of story you created.  Geth only slaughtered the Quarians if the Quarians attacked them AGAIN, some supported the Reapers and Saren, and if they are already gone, then it doesn't matter if they are destroyed again....BUT Bioware should have created other losses instead of breaking their story rules.  To go along with Edi dying, maybe add longer repair times on the Mass effect gates, loss of more higher end computers, but something other than wiping software off servers but ONLY SOME software.  Geth were basic enough programs that they could live in Quarians life Suits, yet the red wave could pick them out of those same suits to kill them and leave the rest of the suit operating systems??

@holger1405 wrote:

Sorry MC, but you are manoeuvring yourself into a corner here
What you're basically saying is that Bioware should not change the players decision, but if they do, no matter how they do it, it will not work for you.

You set yourself up for disappointment, ME5 will never have a chance for you this way.

Andromeda was killed by the shitstorm, was it unfair? Yes, in my opinion it was, but it is how it is.
I can completely understand that they didn't wanted to risk more money and resources the way it was received.

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mcsupersport wrote;

Maybe, maybe not, but then I was extremely happy to see Andromeda because they showed they didn't want to overwrite the choices of people who played their game.  ME5 may well disappoint me, games have before, and will again.  It's not fatal, so I will get over it, and depending on the story, may or may not buy the game, again not fatal

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@holger1405 wrote:
This ship has already sailed, the Trailer clearly shows that we are going back to the Milky Way in some form.

I think it is the best decision they could have made after Andromeda.
And that they go back to the Milky Way, (The Andromeda shot at the beginning of the trailer was intentional as Michael Gamble said.) doesn't mean Andromeda is forgotten.

I hope they connect both galaxies and both storylines. 
That way the can give us a new story and anwser open questions about Andromeda. 

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mcsupersport writes:

We will now get to see what they do, personally, I hope they shed the Milky Way like a snakes dead skin......but as I said, if I had to guess, I expect lots of Hand Waving and Shepard.....

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@Psychotps wrote:
@mcsupersport

Lol! EA? Spending money to change the entire ending of the game just so they could release something the public didn't know about?

Even if the ending was still unfinished, it would still entail re-designing a major portion of the game to support it otherwise there would be holes all throughout the game.

Yeah, that is NOT what happened. That sounds more like a story they might have "leaked" to cover up the fact that they ran out of time. It's not like that's the first time nor the last time that's happened.

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I think you are thinking of the Extended Cut endings, along with the Leviathan DLC, and not the original game and ending.  There wasn't anything other than the Catalyst throughout 99% of the original game, and then at the very end "POOF" here is Space Boy and your choices are Red Blue Green......it went about that fast, so no real rewrite needed, depending on when it all went down.  Literally, nowhere in the original game release was info on the endings other than the Catalyst and it has to be used to defeat the Reapers. 

The whole Leviathan DLC was created to explain the endings, and they delayed all this and created an Extended Cut endings to help sooth the outrage from players.  People were so outraged by the original endings they raised money and sent like 400 cupcakes in Red Blue and Green icing to Bioware offices.  The leaked endings were actually better than what we got in my opinion.

You may be exactly correct, and like I said, the best Tall Tales are things you want to be true and sound like they could be.....well I added the want part, lol....but it is true.

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@mcsupersport wrote:

@Psychotps Rumor mill was they had a major story leak near end of production and changed the endings after that. By rumor a couple of the bigwigs went into a room and hammered out the new endings and then went to the team and said make this now.
Don't know if that is true but it sounds like it could have happened, but then that is what makes the best tall tales too.

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Almost the entire script leaked, but I don't know if the leaks caused the rewrites. I think that part was fan speculation.

The story about lead writer Mac Walters and project lead Casey Hudson writing the ending without input from the other writers seems to be true. It originated from a post on the Penny Arcade from by writer Patrick Weekes (now the lead writer of Dragon Age).

https://gamerant.com/bioware-mass-effect-3-ending/