Nhl 24 the game for everyone and anyone.

@thebrazenhead75 Let's break this down. 

First, you post this:

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@thebrazenhead75 wrote:

Now show a video of being able to do a flip dump on your back hand after your C wins the face off to you as a Dman that clears the zone in an EASHL 6’s game. 

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Here is a video of me doing a flip dump on my back hand after my C won a faceoff to me as a d-Man that clears the zone in an EASHL 6's game:

Then, you move the goal posts:

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@thebrazenhead75 wrote:

@KidShowtime1867 

Not what I asked for.  

Faceoff in your zone, quick backhand flip from the corner straight up the boards and over the blue line.  

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Here's a video of me of me doing a quick forehand flip from the corner, straight up the boards and over the blue line.

Now, you're going to get all picky about this not being a backhand - I am rarely trying to clear the zone on my backhand as a defender because that's not a play that I would consider a good one. I'm also always playing LD, so putting the puck on my backhand as a right-handed LD to clear the puck up my side (left) is not ideal. Also, a faceoff in this hypothetical is irrelevant. 

So then we arrive here:

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@thebrazenhead75 wrote:Yet, you have failed to provide an example of you executing it.  So until you post a video you executing the play I’ve explained in great detail then no you haven’t.  

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I've literally provided countless examples of me executing all kinds of dumps and clears, a few of which pertain to the exact situation you described initially and then subsequently changed as you were shown it's still accessible with some skill. 

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@KlariskraysNHL wrote:
We don't say adapt because people are bad. We just say adapt because if things aren't changing what you gonna do?

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Exactly. The negative reactions to being shown how exactly someone can execute something in-game that they insist they can't, tells me all I need to know. They don't want to be shown how to do something - they just want the mechanic to be reverted back to a state where they don't need to adapt and they can go back to abusing it for quick breakouts. 

We cry for more responsibility on offense and when EA adjusts the mechanics in order to accomplish that, those unwilling to adapt demand that responsibility be removed.

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@MasterB89 wrote:Plus this the wording that EA is using for their marketing is "AUTHENTIC ON-ICE ACTION" this defines it as "Authentic" hockey experience (this if from the front page title of the official NHL 24 website. That is where the issues lies, I get it in ways its can't be full realism for NHL only (as other games like MLB, NBA and fifa can do it), but don't market it as authentic if it is not.

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You will not get a true authentic experience of any sport on earth on a videogame console. Using a term like 'Authentic' should not give the customer the idea that they're going to experience a 1:1 videogame to real life experience. 

@KidShowtime1867That is where I'll disagree. Take time to play MLB the show. It does offer an extremely close experience on so many levels (yes it has some glitches) but whole package is there. From different bat sounds, to varied crowd numbers (in NHL 24 it will state the teams poor record and lack of tickets sold but will be a sellout if you look at the crowd) I flagged this issue to EA,  authentic player stances, player specific celebrations, dynamic stats for replays, authentic stadiums that change when needed (Blue Jays changed in game same year. (Arizona is an example for NHL 24 where it's still in an NHL arena which has not been the case for a year and a half), full creation for stadiums, day night cycles for authentic stadiums and created stadiums, realistic shadows and sun placement, different broadcast types depending on national or regional games and I can easily go on.. I haven't touched on features online and offine.. Road to the show that gets some updates throughout the years as a big one comparison to be a pro that is still the same from launch and even with some of the game glitches and spelling errors still present. 

Plus we would define the word authentic to what it's meaning is. No person or company can change the definition of a word. If you are not offering it there is other words you can use to promote of market it.

Subjectiveness can go many ways, especially when you are purchasing a product, you can take it that I should bend and be forgiving whereas I see it that they are offering this "authentic on-ice action" but not delivering or stating that due to creative changes that were made we had to remove some options.

Also, you had mentioned prior that games struggle going through different generations where as MLB on a whole has mostly grown from different generations and now different platforms. 

Making a close to real sports game is possible. 

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@MasterB89 wrote:

@KidShowtime1867That is where I'll disagree. Take time to play MLB the show. It does offer an extremely close experience on so many levels (yes it has some glitches) but whole package is there. From different bat sounds, to varied crowd numbers (in NHL 24 it will state the teams poor record and lack of tickets sold but will be a sellout if you look at the crowd) I flagged this issue to EA,  authentic player stances, player specific celebrations, dynamic stats for replays, authentic stadiums that change when needed (Blue Jays changed in game same year. (Arizona is an example for NHL 24 where it's still in an NHL arena and it's been a year and a half where they have not), full creation for stadiums, day night cycles for authentic stadiums and created stadiums, realistic shadows and sun placement and I can go on.

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I do play MLB The Show. It's an incredible gaming experience and its presentation, game flow, accessibility, etc is 2nd to none. It makes the NHL series look amateurish. 

That said - Baseball is a non contact sport that is played at a snails pace. The only player-to-player interaction is simply timing the user's selected swing versus the pitcher's selected pitch and then calculating the success of the swing using variables from user input, player attributes, etc. I'm not going to say it's 'easier' to develop a baseball game - because a game like The Show has a lot more going for it than just pure gameplay. But, Baseball is a MUCH easier sport to virtualize than hockey.

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@MasterB89 wrote: 

Plus we would define the word authentic to what it's meaning is. No person or company can change the definition of a word. If you are not offering it there is other words you can use to promote of market it.

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In the context of an "authentic gaming experience," the term "authentic" typically refers to a gameplay experience that feels genuine, true to the intentions of the game developers, and immersive for the player.

Authenticity often refers to the ability for the game to immerse the user. Now I know that some people here are adamant that the NHL series has lost all immersion and to a point, I agree (bring back custom music). However, if at any point you've played this game and felt genuine excitement for scoring a goal, making a good play or winning a game - you've verified the authentic immersion that the developers intended.

I understand there are extremely stale presentation elements and gameplay bugs that can break that immersion, but you're going to get that in any game.

In MLB The Show, for example, immersion is broken for me when a player randomly commits an error that wasn't a result of any user input. Firing a throw to 1st base only to have the 1st baseman bobble it to allow a hit - despite me ensuring the throw was not overpowered - kind of breaks immersion for me when it happens so often. 

In Madden, immersion is broken when your opponent continuously goes for it on 4th down regardless of the field position. 

In UFC, immersion is broken when Bruce Buffer omits a fighter's record and hometown during introductions to my first UFC championship fight in my career.

But all of those games still provide an authentic experience that does its best to replicate the sports using 1's and 0's. 

@KidShowtime1867I can list many immersion breaking actions in NHL which most have been brought up on these threads, goalies/players own goals, saves being made with the glove in the net..

The pace of the game is different but on ways can be more complex when it comes to how players react to ball movement, to diving catches to a double play. Each has their own complexities. 

For mlb if you want to take your point, this can be based around player stats either card or offline stats. Real life players can over or under throw a ball ot not have the accuracy. This is the same in NHL where a high end player does not score every goal even with the xfactor.

So would that also be defined as immersion breaking in NHL?

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@MasterB89 wrote:

@KidShowtime1867I can list many immersion breaking actions in NHL which most have been brought up on these threads, goalies/players own goals, saves being made with the glove in the net..

The pace of the game is different but on ways can be more complex when it comes to how players react to ball movement, to diving catches to a double play. Each has their own complexities. 

For mlb if you want to take your point, this can be based around player stats either card or offline stats. Real life players can over or under throw a ball ot not have the accuracy. This is the same in NHL where a high end player does not score every goal even with the xfactor.

So would that also be defined as immersion breaking in NHL?

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Yes, which is why I said 

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I understand there are extremely stale presentation elements and gameplay bugs that can break that immersion, but you're going to get that in any game.

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My point is that authenticity typically refers to the ability for the game to immerse you. Everyone posting in this forum has been immersed in this game at some point. That immersion being broken from time to time does not negate the claim to being 'authentic'. Immersion breaks happen in all games, even ones that claim to be 'authentic'. 

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@KidShowtime1867 wrote:

@thebrazenhead75 Let's break this down. 

First, you post this:

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@thebrazenhead75 wrote:

Now show a video of being able to do a flip dump on your back hand after your C wins the face off to you as a Dman that clears the zone in an EASHL 6’s game. 

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Here is a video of me doing a flip dump on my back hand after my C won a faceoff to me as a d-Man that clears the zone in an EASHL 6's game:

Then, you move the goal posts:

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@thebrazenhead75 wrote:

@KidShowtime1867 

Not what I asked for.  

Faceoff in your zone, quick backhand flip from the corner straight up the boards and over the blue line.  

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Here's a video of me of me doing a quick forehand flip from the corner, straight up the boards and over the blue line.

Now, you're going to get all picky about this not being a backhand - I am rarely trying to clear the zone on my backhand as a defender because that's not a play that I would consider a good one. I'm also always playing LD, so putting the puck on my backhand as a right-handed LD to clear the puck up my side (left) is not ideal. Also, a faceoff in this hypothetical is irrelevant. 

So then we arrive here:

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@thebrazenhead75 wrote:Yet, you have failed to provide an example of you executing it.  So until you post a video you executing the play I’ve explained in great detail then no you haven’t.  

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I've literally provided countless examples of me executing all kinds of dumps and clears, a few of which pertain to the exact situation you described initially and then subsequently changed as you were shown it's still accessible with some skill. 

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Obviously you’re not getting it.

I don’t need to be shown how to do something I can already do!  I’ve already told you I can do the backhand and forehand flips shown in your clips.  So why would I keep asking for you to perform a flip dump in a specific well explained situation?  Think about it.  It’s because there is a difference!  I haven’t changed it and have explained it in great detail a few times. 

The face off is crucial in this hypothetical situation.  The face off on the PK in my zone is the reason why I would attempt this particular flip dump. I’m PRIMARILY attempting this dump on the PK after a FO in my zone because it was the most effective and efficient way to clear the zone.  But now you think I want to be able to do it so I can exploit a play springing my winger for a breakaway.  😏  Which btw was also a common play a lot of people did but it was easily stopped too so it wasn’t an exploitable play.  Once again, I’m a 10 year EASHL veteran.  I’m skilled and good enough at this game that I don’t need a so called “exploit”.  

I don’t NEED the backhand high flip dump either because I’m skilled and good enough to clear the zone on PK’s other ways so yes I have “adapted”.  I do WANT it back because it is a common, effective and efficient way to clear the zone as done in real life.  That is the difference.  

Clearing your zone on your backhand you don’t consider a “good play” or “ideal”?  

It’s actually a better option especially if you’re playing as a right handed LD or in my case a left handed RD.  When you go to your backhand you’re shielding the puck from an opposing player thus making it easier to backhand flipping it out.  There is a reason why a lot of players use to puck protect and/rag it on their back hand.  

Also in your first clip dumping it diagonally to the right corner isn’t a good play at all.  The opposing C could’ve intercepted it for a breakaway and their LD was already back enough to retrieve it.  You could’ve easily just dumped it to the left corner using your forehand or backhand without any potential risk of it being intercepted. 

Back to the original and PRIMARY situation I’m talking about which is the PRIMARY reason why I would attempt this back hand flip dump.  I wish I could draw you a picture to help you but unfortunately I’m not good at that so I’ll explain it yet again in the simplest terms.

Your team is on the PK.  
They have 5 skaters.

Your team has 4 skaters.

The face off is in your zone.  
The face off is in your bottom left corner. 

You understand this so far?

You’re the LD (right handed).

You’re positioned directly behind your C at approximately the goal line.  
Your C wins it straight back to you or in the corner.

What are your options to clear the zone most effectively and efficiently?

You can turn towards the boards, then skate and slap shot it behind your net and up the right boards. That’s one effective way.   

You’re not going to chip it off the left boards on your forehand.  The opposing RW is attacking you and can poke check you before you get the chance. Even if you get the puck past the RW their RD is right along the boards at the blue line waiting for the puck.  

You’re not diagonally flipping it out the right side because the distance is even farther and the chance of it being intercepted is even greater.  

Now what are your other options and especially if you and/or your teammates are fatigued and the other team has pressure?

You can rip a slapshot along the left boards.  Ok, that could/would work. 

You’re not skating it out.  You’re too fatigued and outmanned.  

You’re not likely to pass it to a teammate because they’re too fatigued and also out manned and covered. 

Your best option as I’ve mentioned?

Backhand high flip straight up the left boards and over the blue line or even off the glass and out.  This is the option I am discussing and want.  Yet it has been nerfed to the point it isn’t possible or as effective as much anymore.  So EA has just handicapped the most effective and efficient way to clear the zone.  I don’t need to ask why.  

@thebrazenhead75 

Obviously, you cannot dump the puck out past the NZ from your own corner off a faceoff like you used to be able to. If you could, it would be too easy to relieve full pressure. That said, I'm having little trouble clearing the puck. Most of the time, I'll slap it around the boards. Often I find a teammate that has a more open lane to clear it. I can sometimes get it out the zone by dumping off the glass. There are numerous ways to clear the puck. It's not as easy as it used to be and that's the intent. A team skilled at moving the puck in their own zone is going to be able to clear it and remove that pressure. 

Per usual, it sounds like people are complaining when something negatively affects them. Why aren't we hearing how frustrating it is tot engage pressure against your opponents and being able to keep the puck in their zone? They are bound by the same mechanics as everyone else. Just like a skilled team in their end is going to clear the puck, a skilled team on offense is going to gain full pressure and keep it. 

We have heard the feedback. Repeatedly. Big changes have been made since launch based on that feedback that have severely made it harder to fill up the pressure meter. I think we have a pretty well balanced system for the current game. I most definitely was not a fan of it previously and I don't exactly love it now, but it does add a new skill based element that brings the need for a different kind of strategy. Something you didn't really have to even worry about before. This is a new element that shakes up the gameplay.

You guys claim we copy and past the game every year. We've added this new system and now it sounds like you actually want a copied and pasted game from years back. I get that the pressure system didn't hit the mark for many of you. Myself included. We've also seen a lot of claims that it's a good idea, but not well executed. Obviously, there's room for improvement. It's very possible changes will be made in the future based on the feedback you all have given us since launch.

I totally get it's frustrating not to be able to flip the puck more than halfway down the ice. Unfortunately, it doesn't play well with the new pressure system. Which, most likely isn't going anywhere anytime soon. So, rather than debate ad nauseum not being able to easily escape full pressure, maybe it would be good to pivot this discussion into tips on how you can use the current mechanics to make that happen?

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@EA_Aljo wrote:

@thebrazenhead75 

Obviously, you cannot dump the puck out past the NZ from your own corner off a faceoff like you used to be able to. If you could, it would be too easy to relieve full pressure. That said, I'm having little trouble clearing the puck. Most of the time, I'll slap it around the boards. Often I find a teammate that has a more open lane to clear it. I can sometimes get it out the zone by dumping off the glass. There are numerous ways to clear the puck. It's not as easy as it used to be and that's the intent. A team skilled at moving the puck in their own zone is going to be able to clear it and remove that pressure. 

Per usual, it sounds like people are complaining when something negatively affects them. Why aren't we hearing how frustrating it is tot engage pressure against your opponents and being able to keep the puck in their zone? They are bound by the same mechanics as everyone else. Just like a skilled team in their end is going to clear the puck, a skilled team on offense is going to gain full pressure and keep it. 

We have heard the feedback. Repeatedly. Big changes have been made since launch based on that feedback that have severely made it harder to fill up the pressure meter. I think we have a pretty well balanced system for the current game. I most definitely was not a fan of it previously and I don't exactly love it now, but it does add a new skill based element that brings the need for a different kind of strategy. Something you didn't really have to even worry about before. This is a new element that shakes up the gameplay.

You guys claim we copy and past the game every year. We've added this new system and now it sounds like you actually want a copied and pasted game from years back. I get that the pressure system didn't hit the mark for many of you. Myself included. We've also seen a lot of claims that it's a good idea, but not well executed. Obviously, there's room for improvement. It's very possible changes will be made in the future based on the feedback you all have given us since launch.

I totally get it's frustrating not to be able to flip the puck more than halfway down the ice. Unfortunately, it doesn't play well with the new pressure system. Which, most likely isn't going anywhere anytime soon. So, rather than debate ad nauseum not being able to easily escape full pressure, maybe it would be good to pivot this discussion into tips on how you can use the current mechanics to make that happen?

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Good points but those should not be reasons to nerfed and/or remove abilities in the game.  Doing so to manipulate/force etc certain things to make their pressure system work better shouldn’t be a fix.  

Again, I’m skilled and good enough and have adapted but sometimes I shouldn’t have to adapt to certain things like this.  

I use a Sniper build on D and can play great with it.  I also score a lot of one timer bombs from the blue line and in using this build.  I know a lot of great players that use a Puck Moving Dman on W.   What’s next, EA restrictions on only certain builds can be used for certain positions?  

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@EA_Aljo wrote:

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@MasterB89 wrote:
@KidShowtime1867Could you provide a clip of a high flip out which is used for many penalty kills in the NHL and also a puck over the glass penalty, which happens when the player is being pressured (result of a poor dump out using the high part of the glass?

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I'm assuming this is a rhetorical question. There are no high dumps. What @KidShowtime1867 is done is adapt. He's showing ways to be successful with dumping the puck. It definitely takes more skill now. You can't just throw the puck down the ice and get a breather while the play resets. There's more strategy to it. You may need to utilize your teammates to clear the zone. Move the puck to find an open lane and shoot it down the ice. You can chip it off the glass as well. 

I understand those long dumps are a part of hockey. However, they also completely negate the pressure system that was added this year. It should take some work to get out of that pressurized state. High dumps don't make that necessary.

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Why wasn't the AI retrained on how to clear the puck on the PK?  It's unrealistic and frustrating to watch the AI try and fail to clear the puck over and over again because they don't know that they can't flip the puck high enough to get it over the opponents heads.