It's time to admit you had no idea what you were doing when you made the AI goalies dumber, the game is somehow in even worse shape afterwords.The AI goalies now let in everything from everywhere, on no pressure whatsoever, it's absolutely ridiculous how consistent the awful goals are.An unscreened wrist shot from the blue line that trickles through the goalie should not be a thing that happens multiple times in a game. Don't get me wrong, the goalies had their obvious flaws before the "update", but now they are just being wildly abused by shooting X-Factors and multiple angles, which weren't glaring issues before.This needs to be addressed at the start of next season, games are being decided by AI goalies that you programmed to lose because you're terrified of any form of skill gap forming in a SPORTS GAME.

@EA_Aljo No disrespect at all but this is a baffling response to the videos @SummerOfDekes presented to you. I don't think anyone said skaters with stats in the mid-80s SHOULDN'T be allowed to score. He was talking about unscreened, soft wristers from the point giving goalies way more trouble than they should OR straight up hitting the back of the net. This is one of those "realistic" things that shouldn't be modeled in the game, IMO. Do goalies IRL have "brain farts" or momentary lapses and let in absolute softies? Of course... but what should such an inconsistency be modeled in this hockey video game? One of the key aspects of solid game design is having the consequences of our actions be predictable, right?To give an example of the opposite of this and frame it in a different genre: If you're playing a platformer like Mario and go to jump over a gap but suddenly, Mario doesn't jump because he got distracted by a Goomba in the distance and you fall into the gap, you'd be dissatisfied, right? I know I would. That would be an unearned consequence of an action I performed correctly. This game (and all sports games) have enough "dice rolls" in them by their very nature. I think making certain things "impossible" can be helpful in terms of game design. Making it so that it's impossible for an unscreened wrister to beat a goalie from so far out would be a GOOD thing in my opinion. Taking randomness out of the game where you can result in a more satisfying experience. Or, to compromise, leave the randomness for offline, non-competitive modes as a slider that can be opted into.

@EA_Aljo wrote:@NeonSkyline21 wrote:@EA_AljoNo disrespect at all but this is a baffling response to the videos @SummerOfDekes presented to you. I don't think anyone said skaters with stats in the mid-80s SHOULDN'T be allowed to score. He was talking about unscreened, soft wristers from the point giving goalies way more trouble than they should OR straight up hitting the back of the net. What they said was -"Any pro goalie who let in those kinds of shots would quickly be unemployed."I took this to mean they should always stop those shots. Again, the high majority of these will be stopped.Your opinion is fair enough, but I'd like to note that the issue isn't just the pucks going in the net, it's how the goalies handle and react to such simple shots. Go back and watch that second clip I posted. Why would any goalie be flopping around to the point of nearly knocking the puck into his own net on such an easy, weak, low danger shot? I understand his energy was low, so it's believable that he didn't handle the puck cleanly, but why can't the ai just cover the puck? Why do the goalies constantly spaz out over the simplest things?Whether it be human or ai goalies, the simple fact of the matter is that goalies in this game wayyy overreact to simple shots all the time. I suspect this is probably due to the fatigue system or whatever that was introduced this year, and if so then it needs to be adjusted. There is absolutely zero reason for the goalies to end up flopping around on the ice over an easy unscreened wrister from that far out. In real hockey, goalies end up flopping around because they get caught off guard by plays in tight, or because a puck took a weird deflection they weren't expecting, not because a guy mailed a puck from the parking lot.I understand that there's a lot to work on when it comes to goalies, human and ai alike, so I don't expect it to be sorted out in NHL 24. Frankly, I think a lot of the issues are from the lack of contextual save animations/logic, so that would, at best, be something worked on for NHL 25. I just hope, as a fan of both the franchise and the goalie position, that EA will deliver needed changes to goalies next year.Edit: and just as a bit of food for thought, the build I used in those clips had zero shooting abilities. No close quarters, make it snappy, heatseaker. Nothing.

@SummerOfDekes First I'd like to suggest the option to turn goaltender fatigue off in free skate.That 2nd clip is unfortunately typical when they are exhausted.I'm not sure they should have fatigue at all.Goaltenders need to be rebuilt to reflect all the changes in the game and the position. Not something that's going to happen overnight.The VH, less ineffectual poke checking, more pass prevention, better covers, etc.

https://www.xbox.com/play/media/NKHqMmFWpEThis is what needs to be eliminated from the game. Relatively simple wrist shot that nails the goalie in the logo. Instead of being able to calmly gather the puck, the goalie plays hacky sack with the puck like he's Freddie Prinze Jr in 'She's All That' before knocking the puck into his own net.

@EA_Aljo wrote:@FourZeroVI I mentioned it being a high majority. Which is a lot more than 51%. There are some comments here that sound like they're rarely stopping these shots and that's just not true. However, I'm in agreement that they need to be improved.It's obviously not every single shot that goes in, but I think that's missing the larger point I was making. Ultimately, there's just too many bad goals going in from low danger areas. And I understand, odd goals happen in real life, too. The problem, imo, isn't necessarily that weird bounces happen, it's how often they happen. For those of us who main goalie, we just go into games hoping our offense can score four, cause we know there's probably gonna be at least three goals scored against us off terrible bounces.I think my perspective on this topic is basically this. It feels like goalies and defense are playing a sim while the forwards are playing an arcade. It's frustrating when we're having to play a fantastic game just to have a save percentage in the 80s - a terrible save percentage in real life - while the forwards are picking up hat tricks because they can just stand in front of the net and let the game auto-tip pucks for them, or press a single button to perform a Michigan. The balance of this game is just totally off.

Revert The Goalie Update | EA Forums

28 Replies

MarvnZindler
New Ace
2 years ago
https://www.xbox.com/play/media/AgJqxNs6Tm
Goalies in this game are just miserable. You can just skate inside the blue line and throw the puck on net and there's a good chance you'll score.
https://www.xbox.com/play/media/EpGC4mK8Ac
In what world should a goalie ever have this much trouble with a weak wrist shot from the blue line that's COMPLETELY UNSCREENED?
@EA_Aljo this is embarrassing.
EA_Aljo
Community Manager
2 years ago
@SummerOfDekes

We're aware of the feedback on goalies as well as how they're playing so hopefully, we'll see changes in the future. Also, while they are obviously letting in some weak goals, the examples you provided aren't going to happen with every shot. They're also saving a high amount of shots from the points. I see more good goals scored than weak ones. Still though, it's always frustrating to have shots that seemingly should be saved end up in the back of the net.
MarvnZindler
New Ace
2 years ago
@EA_Aljo wrote:
@SummerOfDekes
We're aware of the feedback on goalies as well as how they're playing so hopefully, we'll see changes in the future. Also, while they are obviously letting in some weak goals, the examples you provided aren't going to happen with every shot. They're also saving a high amount of shots from the points. I see more good goals scored than weak ones. Still though, it's always frustrating to have shots that seemingly should be saved end up in the back of the net.
Yes, of course not every single one of those shots is going to go in, but the point is that I can go into practice mode one on one with the goalie and throw unscreened, weak wrist shots from the blue line and put a good number of pucks past the goalie. That shouldn't happen. In real life, when you see plays like that, it's because you looked up "worst NHL goals ever" on YouTube. Those kinds of horrendous goals happen rarely in the NHL, but we see them all the time in this game.
The goalies are either not good enough, or the skaters are way too strong. I mean, the build I used in those examples has about 83 wrister accuracy and 85 wrister power. Why should those shots be going in at all?
EA_Aljo
Community Manager
2 years ago
@SummerOfDekes

Why shouldn't those shots go in though? These are still supposed to represent professional players. Just because they have a score in the 80s doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to score.
MarvnZindler
New Ace
2 years ago
@EA_Aljo wrote:
@SummerOfDekes
Why shouldn't those shots go in though? These are still supposed to represent professional players. Just because they have a score in the 80s doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to score.
Because it's an unscreened shot from a mile away? Any pro goalie who let in those kinds of shots would quickly be unemployed.
Just to be clear, there's a reason why pro hockey teams fight so hard to protect the net front and middle slot while conceding point shots. It's because point shots aren't dangerous by themselves. Point shots are really only dangerous when there's a screen or deflection. If neither of those two things are happening, as is the case in my clips, then those shots are the easiest thing in the world for goalies to deal with. And, yet, here we are where the goalies in NHL 24 are falling over themselves in sheer terror of weak wrist shots from the blue line with no screen.
EA_Aljo
Community Manager
2 years ago
@SummerOfDekes

As I said, goalies could use improving. I get just as frustrated as the rest of you with them. I also see them regularly saving point shots though. This doesn't mean they're working perfectly of course. I've sent on the feedback that has been provided about goalies so the team is very aware of them. It's not something that's going to change overnight though. When they're updated, we'll announce it.
RicochetII
2 years ago
@SummerOfDekes First I'd like to suggest the option to turn goaltender fatigue off in free skate.
That 2nd clip is unfortunately typical when they are exhausted.
I'm not sure they should have fatigue at all.

Goaltenders need to be rebuilt to reflect all the changes in the game and the position. Not something that's going to happen overnight.
The VH, less ineffectual poke checking, more pass prevention, better covers, etc.
PackBeak
Seasoned Veteran
2 years ago
@RicochetII wrote:
@SummerOfDekesFirst I'd like to suggest the option to turn goaltender fatigue off in free skate.

I have this in my mega thread
NeonSkyline21
Seasoned Ace
2 years ago
@EA_Aljo No disrespect at all but this is a baffling response to the videos @SummerOfDekes presented to you. I don't think anyone said skaters with stats in the mid-80s SHOULDN'T be allowed to score. He was talking about unscreened, soft wristers from the point giving goalies way more trouble than they should OR straight up hitting the back of the net.
This is one of those "realistic" things that shouldn't be modeled in the game, IMO. Do goalies IRL have "brain farts" or momentary lapses and let in absolute softies? Of course... but what should such an inconsistency be modeled in this hockey video game? One of the key aspects of solid game design is having the consequences of our actions be predictable, right?
To give an example of the opposite of this and frame it in a different genre: If you're playing a platformer like Mario and go to jump over a gap but suddenly, Mario doesn't jump because he got distracted by a Goomba in the distance and you fall into the gap, you'd be dissatisfied, right? I know I would. That would be an unearned consequence of an action I performed correctly.
This game (and all sports games) have enough "dice rolls" in them by their very nature. I think making certain things "impossible" can be helpful in terms of game design. Making it so that it's impossible for an unscreened wrister to beat a goalie from so far out would be a GOOD thing in my opinion. Taking randomness out of the game where you can result in a more satisfying experience. Or, to compromise, leave the randomness for offline, non-competitive modes as a slider that can be opted into.
EA_Aljo
Community Manager
2 years ago
@NeonSkyline21 wrote:

@EA_Aljo No disrespect at all but this is a baffling response to the videos @SummerOfDekes presented to you. I don't think anyone said skaters with stats in the mid-80s SHOULDN'T be allowed to score. He was talking about unscreened, soft wristers from the point giving goalies way more trouble than they should OR straight up hitting the back of the net.

What they said was -

"Any pro goalie who let in those kinds of shots would quickly be unemployed."

I took this to mean they should always stop those shots. Again, the high majority of these will be stopped.