Balancing that needs to be adjusted

Question

I just cannot stand to see people lv 100-200 always using 1 or 2 characters that are maxed every game. Why do they chose these characters well lets list them
1. they are easy to use
2. there is something overpowered about them
3. lots of other people are using it so I should use it too&nbsp;

So here are the overpowered characters that need nerfs and why&nbsp;
Plants&nbsp;
Citron and ice citron: take too much damage and have a very long beam
vampire flower: with the vampire upgrade she recovers 50% of health she takes and she takes 12-14
bbq corn: rate of fire is too high and very effective at all ranges

Zombies
marine biologist: the long range shot takes 25 and the close range takes 25 and literally blinds you with its explosion animation&nbsp;
chemist: takes no aiming to use and takes alot
all imps: hitbox improvement didn't do anything at all, they are still hard to hit. If they had 50 lives then they could keep their overpowered abilities and lil drake and pylon imp needs the most nerfs.
Meches have over 500 lives in reality because they have like 20% damage resistance and they take 10+ and shoot fast&nbsp;
pirates: captain sharkbite is sill overpowered and the abilities need big nerf. barrel needs more ways to be destroyed like empeach or goop, parrot needs damage reduced by 2 and 1 life because the hit box is broken , &nbsp;the cannon rodeo is now harder to hit like the cannon is like a wall
scuba solider: takes 50+ and has 2 bullets with very fast reload and they only nerf the tank commander...
park ranger: 7 damage a bullet and 2 damage and latest 3 seconds and can attack you behind cover alot.&nbsp;
All engineers: their bolt turret makes them hard to hit the turret is a wall&nbsp;

Character thats need to be buffed&nbsp;
All roses: give them 125 lives, nerf their damage, and increase their homing (beta)&nbsp;
chomp thing: needs more damage who cares about recovery when everyone uses close range weapons
six shooter: needs more damage and accuracy&nbsp;

b0ris_the_fr0g · Answer

So what if these people were all level 2000 or level 3000 and used the same&nbsp; two characters over and over again ? Would that be ok ?

I think people should be allowed to use whatever characters they want and shouldn't be chastised for wanting to use&nbsp;the same ones&nbsp;over and over again.
I'm a L262 player and I use a maxed out standard Peashooter and a maxed out standard Footsoldier because;

1.. I find them easy to use (used identical characters in GW1)
2a..I can't be bothered upgrading a load of characters in order to make my gamer level look artificially huge.
2b. and because I can't be bothered upgrading a load of characters that i'm never going to use.

Due to the way the upgrading system works (no challenge skips any more) i'm always going to have a low ranking but that doesn't bother me one bit because the low gamer level doesn't make me a worse player than someone who has taken the time to max out all their characters.

Answer

" I usaly get the top score every match but I am always stopped"
Disgusted. Totally.This sentence is fantastic and pratically reflect the typical bronze V elo&nbsp;attitude, disgusted that come from someone with an high ranking. Disgusted that come from someone who claim himself to be a pro. You should be an example from all new players and teach them that they can play the game in every circumstance and with every character, and instead almost every of your post is a QQ of the fact you can't get the most kills with every character you play. Seriously they should give you and zaheen a medal for the amount of degradation you keep taking in this board.First.&nbsp;Top scoreboard means only you got the best amount of Xp, at the moment this only thing enough rewarded are taking kills, which means only give the last hit to&nbsp;someone 🙂This doesn't necessarily means game balance, and everyone main sunflower know exactly when he carryed a match even without appearing in top . This is tricky to understand, but there are a lots of aspects to consider in game balance.. and this IS NOT SCOREBOARD. It's game impact and the ability for a character to influence a match.
"Since most of you disagree with me what characters do you use? let me guess, toxic pea, bbq corn, citron, tennis star, park ranger, pirate."I was a Citron and Frozen Citron main last patch, but now i stopped play them as i feel completely disgusted from the state they had come. I also wrote a guide to explain this shi tty community they were already a powerful characters (THE POINT OF THAT GUIDE was to let people understand they were ALREADY slighly secretly overpowered). And instead the community reaction was just complain with redlove and zaheen calling everyone saying citron is good character zombie troll, and no-one (you too) moved a finger to say instead they were completely wrong. And THIS is the result we've come.Sorry. Seems i did a huge mistake, I had to write that &nbsp;with red letters and straightly say "hei you. you're the common average corn user that ruin my game? There is a secretly op character called Citron that will be FOREVER free for nerfs because no-one know how to play him.. STOP using that useless shi t character called Corn, ruin my games, ruin your game, ruin your life and enjoy this free-win, easy game easy life character"
Anyway this is the full list of&nbsp;my favorite characters that i play even with mastered class
- Frost Rose&nbsp;
- Stuffy, Metal, Vampire Flower
- Toxic Citron (just because stock and ice are at the moment broken)
- Corn, PopCorn
- Electro PeaShooter.
- Jade Cactus (rarely)
- Armor Chomper (rarely)

These are my favorite characters, so this pratically validate and confirm my thesis?For confirm ask Quibassi12 (a sunflower main and plant-errorist lover like you and zaheen ) ^^
By the way yes recently i used Tennis and Park Ranger.If you feel i commited a crimes against human rights, go ahead and EXPLAIN ME a good counter to &nbsp;Electro PeaShooter &nbsp;🙂 and one for&nbsp;Citrons.
The truth is they were both almost counterless and they didn't deserve such a huge buff.

"The truth is... not matter that,there always gonna be someone who just play the same two char. No amount of balancing will fix that."
THIS ^Thanks boolerex to keep taking some of brains cell in this board that simply those&nbsp;plant addicted seems to had lost in the amount of salt last patch

Instalok - Nerf&nbsp;Listen this song, maybe you'll correct some of your attitude...

Answer

Kinda agree for all plants nerf listened except vampire.At the moment Metal with the damage increase and sunflower pot cooldown reduced seems more a safe and solid choice.&nbsp;Vampire is mostly overused by girls because she looks pretty.. &nbsp;and this is the most reason why i use her and stuffy...i think you overxaggerate a little bit here as to stand the metal increased hp need to continue shooting while fighting, and this being much weaker to burst and harass. Seems a high risk high reward pick and even funny to play, that's it.By the way as far as i know vampire flower and fire flower didn't got a buff.For the zombie nerf list i almost think that you just generally hate them...
Imp size couldn't be really bgger, but to compensate that citron splash damage, rose homing and corn accuracy has been improved.Recently i just killed many of them without even aiming, using the no-scope aim and seems their hitbox is much more bigger when jumping. His "stated" opness is more like the fact that his double jump and gravity grenade at close range makes a frustrating experience, a frustrating experience is different from a op one, otheriwse i think PeaShooter Hype needed a nerf for the same reason.
The Mech cooldown was decreased to make you swap character from little drake and cone imp to another one (shrimp and stock imp, that besides the bias seems very balanced) and consider time snare and empeach being more often Mechs become much more manageable. Their big hitbox quickly being destroyed as long as a Peashooter or a Sunflower rooted themselves.I never had a match with more than 3 imps anyway so i'm not sure if you just hate them or you're right, but i would appreciate a limit to called mechs over making the class useless.

Captain Sharkbite is not overpowered anymore, they reduced both his splash damage and his direct hit, and he already had a bad rate of fire compared to regular, He still has good accuracy but the lack of damage is quite heard. The only ability that could deserve a nerf is the parrot,which anyway, even with 20hp dies as soon there are at least two roses.. or an electro peashooter.. but whatever. The barrel is not op, is just a way to make him less defenseless. People complain about him being very good at close range, but the shotgun has very low range and make him much vulnerable to low-mid one, he has not teleport or hero kick, he has a good damaging shotgun, but his skills doesn't acctually work with it, so even if he has a very good shotgun, he can't really use that much against close threats like chompers and citrons (is not enough strong to deal with them).

Scuba seems more strong than Tank Commander, but this only before the reload upgrades. Scuba has not two reload upgrades and after two shoot even with one reload upgrades he has to reload about 1.5 seconds.
Tank Commander post reload upgrades, make is reload SOO much faster (little bit more than 0.5 seconds and less than 1, maybe is 0.75) that is almost in pair with Scuba Rate of Fire, and this is without reloading after two shots, but anyway Tank didn't deserve a nerf though, as peashooter compared to the first game are much less for counters when gaitling and since Foot Soldier kit is almost useless in this game (worthless smoke grenade and not many rooftops to camp) make him not that good character, so at least he should have very good daming variations.

Park Ranger seems ovepowered but only if you stands in his clouds, as long as you keep moving you dodge his entire dps, also i could be wrong here but upgrades on stiinky clouds seems not working or got nerfed because i remember those of Park Ranger being much more stronger and larger , but not totally sure.
Also i think Park Ranger doesn't need a nerf as he's a good counter to citron actually.

For the Tennis Star, i think he is in the same position of the Fire Chomper. People mostly thought he was op because he was a zombie. If he deserve a nerf i think at least their class could be improved. Offcourse i think the same of Fire Chomper as he outclass every breathe chomper, so if he deserve a nerf, other bad variations could deserve a buff to compensate

Enginner seems not being played a lot and i think everything is fine (?) they also reduced stun grenade duration compared to the first game, which imho was unnecessary, this was made to not make the stun-grenade / turret combo being too broken, but i think this could have been solved with just make a cooldown between those. For being a support now is much more weaker compared to rose crowd controls.

For the scientists nerf sorry but i completely disagree, and being disgusted, the reason why you see again the trio is just because they are the only decent scientists that working good as assassin, and those ranged variations are just bad and can't really outrade anyone at any range and not really being helpful in that mean compared to a sunflower ranged weapon. If anything need a change, it's a nerf revert for marine and chemist that was quite manageable compared to zoologist. Overall the chemist which lacks pointblack damage, but whatever, community ask, devs answer.

Character thats need to be buffed&nbsp;
Roses.. thanks godness is being shadowned by Citrons. If Citrons didn't got this unbeliavable buff we had the Rose Army back again and people would eventually complain more.At the moment is much more better as supporting compared to Enginner thanks to damaging increasing (or more the ability to do them with homing being good again) and very long crowd controls.Chomp thing could deserve a Hp buff to 150 for me together with a damage buff.
Six Shooter has two reload upgrades, a single buff could make him too much toxic to deal against (he's already a very good character).

Answer

i just pick on engineers who have the burger beak as a custom

i personally think the tennis all star isnt op his ability is he can just rev up his gun with out the speed penalty and becoming&nbsp; fodder for cactus . toxic pea isnt as bad than he was in gw1 i still see more plasma pea players. bbq corn is pure over the top i agree pirates are the cactus for the zombies so hand in hand on that.

i'll admit there are so many cheap deaths but only by the gattling pea, husk hop and a shulk shot that isnt even near you and the turret for the engineer 3/4 you fire at him the shot doesnt even register.

myself im a random player but my fav classes are all star, soilder and chomper.&nbsp; i play half of the scientist mainly the fire variant, computer, and toxic, sunflowers, rose, iron and toxic citron, pirates,peashooters, toxic agent,fire,ice, and mob cob. i dont hardly use the rest unless im leveling the characters up then not hardly use em again either i dont personally like em or im not good with em

boolerex · Answer

@ShavedThronel0 wrote:
I just cannot stand to see people lv 100-200 always using 1 or 2 characters that are maxed every game. Why do they chose these characters well lets list them
1. they are easy to use
2. there is something overpowered about them
3. lots of other people are using it so I should use it too&nbsp;

The truth is... not matter that,there always gonna be someone who just play the same two char. No amount of balancing will fix that.

Anyway, agree with the citron nerf,but neither vampire flower and bbq corn need a nerf:

vampire flower low health mean she can't use sunbeam much at the first place and she didn't got her damage buffed compared to other sunflower. She already reliant enough to her life-leech to be effective. Let's not make it worse
BBQ corn already got nerfed and it otherwise not that problematic, most of the time you're gonna just reload in the middle of the fight if you miss too much shot now. Fire damage is overrated too.

As for the zombie team nerf:

Marine biologist didn't need anymore nerf. I like him as effective close range if he actually bother to look at the enemy to shoot them for maximum damage. Long range shot do only 11 damage with damage upgrade,you aren't gonna do anything with that expect shooting down cactus drone.
Chemist just have NO range,he need to be up close to be any effective or he do jack *. And didn't even do that much damage if he get in range. The huge splash is needed for him to deal with group of plant,he don't need anymore change.
50 hp might be too harsh for imp,as the main reason his hp got buffed is because he just get one-shotted by too much stuff otherwise. His current hp DO need a nerf still,65 hp might be a better number,gravity grenade could also use a nerf. Also the bigger hitbox did make him a tad easier to hit hue.
Snarkbite is fine now, you trade off a big chunk of your DPS for what you get.,barrel don't need a nerf,just get out of the barrel explosion range once you EMPeach/goop them, parrot need a nerf,but not to his direct hit damage,only to his hp and his airstrike. Cannon rodeo don't need a nerf neither,it don't do much at the first place expect for having a huge splash radius..
Agree for scuba soldier nerf if it to justifies using tank commander more.
Park ranger is pretty much the toxic pea of the zombie team. Annoying as heck to deal with,but not that damaging. Dunno if he really do need a nerf.
I don't mind if engi get his damage reduction while in big bolt blaster reduced a bit or something considering he's not as easy to hit him here compared to a pea gatling.

As for rose,plz don't nerf her damage,she already have one of the worst DPS. Homing is fine,didn't got any problem with it (altrough I didn't played much rose at for late but heh),rose also didn't need the hp buff as he a rather slippy target already.
Chomp thing need a damage buff yeah,same for toxic chomper.
Law pea don't need buff. he can actually do ALOTS of damage with one clip and is nowhere near inaccurate.Also heard he's greatttt with two reload upgrade.

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Balancing that needs to be adjusted

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