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Anonymous's avatar
Anonymous
10 years ago

Citron nerf maybe?

I've noticed recently that plant teams are becoming Citron teams, with Citron in the majority and all over the leaderboards. I played around as one and realized really quickly, they're really overpowered and easy to play.

They deal instant direct damage. They can output alot of damage quickly, accurately and at any distance removing the need to lead targets. That makes it nice and easy to deal all your damage to a moving target with less missing. Not to mention that they don't have to reload, but we won't touch on that.

They have tons of health. The base citron starts with 200 health. If thats not already enough to chew through, they have a shield that reduces all the damage they take, making them absolute tanks. To kill a Citron you will need to reload, and that precious time will get the best of you.

They can completely disarm you with E.M. Peach. When prescious time matters, E.M. Peach completely takes away your ability to attack or use any ability, making you a sitting target. Most classes that get hit with it will die right as the effect wears off.

They can move around the map faster than any other class. Most of the time when you have a tank of a character, they are slow moving but can take a ton of damage while outputting an average amount. Not this time. They can zip around the map as a ball and easily reach graveyards faster than the responding zombies.

Adding all of those together gives you a super easy, way overpowered class to play. It saddens me whenever you see everyone on a team playing as a single class because you can win the game everytime. It really takes the skill and fun out of it.

16 Replies

  • Absolutely.

    Citron and Frozen Citron are far too effective at any range,  and in any situation. He's the jack of all trades; I can't find a single disadvantage to these two variants.

    If you look at it plainly, these two subclasses have the highest movement speed in the game, the most health in the game (a whopping 275 with peel shield), and arguably the most powerful weapon in the game, able to deal seemingly unending damage from afar or up close. On top of that, he also has a disable.

    To me, the orange/frozen beam outdoes every other weapon in the game. The character definition "laying waste to the Zombies with his Orange Beam" is more accurate than anyone wants it to be. The only other similar weapon would be the all star's, but the beams last longer before overheat, deal more damage, have a higher speed, and are in a constant stream, unlike the periodic damage of the all star. New players will find this easy to use, as it is difficult to miss when you're simply pointing a flashlight at an enemy. The other citrons on the other hand, have a different type of weapon that I find completely fine.

    Aside all that, I think largely the most unbalanced aspect of the citron is it's large amount of health. According to PvZWiki, he was designed to be a "tank" class, yet he seems far more than that role. I've never seen a game where the tank can become faster than everyone else. The peel shield gives citron 200 health plus 75 every once in a while. While technically it is possible to kill him from the sides with peel shield on, I never see a decent citron take 200 damage before being able to turn to face his attacker and use up the rest of the shield. Even a scientist will lose a 1v1 at close range, and a captain will lose at long range. He simply has too much health to withstand an entire clip from any class; as soon as the zombie has to reload, they're finished. If I were to adjust these two varients, I would give them 150 or 175 base health, and reduce the peel shield health to 50. The "tank" description can die with him, because it doesn't really fit his bounty hunter description.

    If you think I'm biased because I've had a few unpleasant games against these two variants, think again. Citron and Frozen citron were the first two plants I mastered. I know just how overpowered they can be.

    The reason citron has gone so long without a nerf is because Popcap/ea base character balancing largely on kill/death ratio, which is a huge mistake. Citron is the type of class to risk their own life for the objective, which means they die a lot more than a plant such as a cactus, who's job is to sit back and get kills slowly without dying. It seems the balancing team does not understand the importance of role when it comes to kda. Anyone can choose to have a good kda in a game just by sitting at the back of the crowd, rather than rushing the objective. It's not a good piece of data to use to determine a variant's strength.

    But fear not! In Friday's stream, it was revealed that the most verbose opinions from the community on character balancing will be dealt with in the next content update. This means that cactus will likely be rebuffed, and more importantly, citron's reign of power will end. I can't wait to see him no longer used so freely ingame.

  • Screion's avatar
    Screion
    10 years ago

    It's only regular Citron and Frozen Citron that cause the problems.

    I've been in situations where it was impossible to counter a Citron because it could snipe all the way from behind cover, easily avoid ZPGs, use the shield and cover to counter-snipe snipers, suppress any approach from the elevated covered position with EMPeach, and in the worst case scenario - ball up and run from multiple attackers. That way such Citrons gain easily the vanquish master and streak master boast without ever taking any risk or care about the objective. The worst i had was one of these with a 11-0 against me because it was impossible to do anything about it.

    And that needs to stop.

    The damage output combined with the mobility and EMPeach is too much. It is as simple as that. And i haven't seen a single experienced individual that opposes that.

    Citrons damage was completely fine before the patch, and no one decided to snipe as regular or frozen Citron back then.

    There simply isn't an effective counter against a camping Citron on high ground. And when half of the zombie team is busy running after Citron campers on roofs it's no wonder some random guy will capture a graveyard in TT. Without any 200 HP Citron ever on the actual objective.

    200 HP characters (increased survivability) with mobility and high accuracy seem to have that tendency to become snipers due to their low risk, access to high ground and easy leads. This needs to be analyzed and addressed.

  • Iron_Guard8's avatar
    Iron_Guard8
    Legend
    10 years ago

    The main issue I see with Citrons is the sniping ability of the Frozen and Regular Citron and the rapid freezing capability of the frozen version at these extreme ranges. With the recent nerfs to cactus, which I feel were not needed in the first place, I see these 2 Citrons using their long range power to snipe in place of the Cacti.

    In my most recent multiplayer gaming experience the 2 Citrons above often hide their bulk behind terrain features so only the tip of their side mounted weapon is exposed at all, making them difficult to harm at all barring AoE attacks. Conversely Cacti need to expose their most vulnerable area, their snouts and by extension their 'head' where they can be critted.

    The only thing I see these 2 Citrons would need to be changed is long range attenuation to their firepower, none of the others need any change I can see and their shields and EMPeach are fine currently. The other Citrons seem fine in my experience.

  • linger4606's avatar
    linger4606
    10 years ago
    Hmm. I'm not having any issues taking down Citron users. I always find away around the camping.
  • Anonymous's avatar
    Anonymous
    10 years ago

    The nerf is on it's was, at least for the frozen citron, as announced a few minutes ago at Live From PopCap.  My guess is standard citron will see one as well.  I'm just pumped they are buffing the cactus class back up and specifically the camo cactus.  Well done PopCap and thanks for listening to us.

  • I've always wondered why the citron's main weapon has such a long range.  Even some of the engineers have a cap on the range of their main weapon, so why not cap other non-snipping characters? 

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