Graveyard Variety Pack - post patch feedback

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@Dhelattorres wrote:

Super brain needs to be nerf. It takes me forever to kill him with any plant. Why the scientist is stronger than the sunflower? If the scientist is a support, then it has to be weakened not to be a front-line character. Rose is useless and needs buf. Is complicated build teleportation. Chomper must be reduced in digestion time. The team of the plants is very weak even for those who know how to play with them. What good I know how to play with a plan if the enemy team is disproportionately stronger?

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The scientist has always been stronger than the Sunflower. However, it is now more apparent due to the amount of clutter and how easily a scientist can go from cover to cover. They are very vulnerable in open fields against a flower. I use to wreck scientists with the Fire Flower all the time on GW1. 

After having played even more i can say that people slowly begin to understand how to deal with Mechs. They usually don't last long and don't even reach the Garden in Turf Takeover.

 But there are still plenty of Imps doing nothing else but Impkata and Grenades. 3-6 Imps per round are normal.

Then on the plants team everything seems acceptable besides the BBQ Corn and his Spray and Pray mentality. Its a guaranteed 50-70 dmg over every range that requires nothing but a bit of aiming and shooting. When i look at the Fire Pea for example, we have a lot less damage and slower projectiles, that reach up to 30 damage.

Roses Goatify could last a bit longer. And her speed reduction during charge should not be as punishing as it is right now.

Over at the zombies we have lots of issues. I noticed that plenty of Pirates - especially the Laser one - do nothing but sit back and reach vanquish and streak boasts without any trouble. The Pirates aim is simply too fast and his fire rate combined with his damage output is too much. Only the Camo Cactus can beat that, but the Camo requires perfect aim and aims much slower.

Not to forget how imbalanced that Eggsplosion is. It's not about how the Cactus Drone does, but how impossible it is to escape. Combined with the tiny size of the parrot - which makes it harder to hit - and the Pirates Laser damage and accuracy and his close range capabilities, not only to burst, but also to escape with armor, is he too powerful. And it is no wonder that so many specifically play the Laser Pirate only.

This whole camping mentality is especially unfair, when others throw their bodies at the objectives and get a lot lower ratios and less points. New Boasts like a Capture and a Defender Boast could even address that. 

And to make it even worse lack the plants a proper backstab. That way an effective counter snipe, to stop the pirates, becomes difficult, as the Cactus constantly has to deal with Scientists. All while the Pirate can easily snipe and escape.

Combined with the masses of Mechs and Super Brainz that push the plants back, has it become extremely difficult to achieve progress. 

Maybe the Citron is a way to backstab. Especially the Frozen one. I have to see. And whoever thought it was a good idea to add these stupid AI bots at the top of the wall in Zomburbia: NO IT IS NOT. It is annoying and wastes time.

Haven't played pre-patch...but I can say that the game as it is now, is soooooo bad online. It's like a downgrade from the first game...which is the worst game I have ever played online.

@apan1154

Nice feedback, perhaps you could paste it on my balancing thread and allow me to use some.

I do think Citrons EMPeach should have a more devastating impact, like instead of 5 seconds, or should maybe last for 10 seconds on a Mech. Also should disable their movement and firepower. Then it'd be a Mech killer 🙂

Now some Though Talk that will upset a lot of people:

Super Brainz Beam needs to deal 50% less damage and have 50% more overheat across the board. The electric one needs to deal 75% less arc damage. 

Super Brainz Turbo Twister needs to have a shorter duration by 25% and the damage reduction need to be reduced once again by at least 25%.

If that does not happen the developers can as well just remove that class entirely from the game, as there is no point in having a melee tank that does not use melee. Incompetent people either use Turbo Twister up close or the beam from afar. We could also just give the Chomper a 10 shot clip of his Goop Cannon and watch how every Chomper just camps and shoots. And as ridiculous as it sounds: It is ridiculous.

Of course i also see ways to split it. Let's say the Turbo Twister gets a child like a Tank Twister. Where one type has damage reduction, and the other one deals more damage. That way people can choose one and crease the overall variety in the game.

And very important to mention is that even more ridiculous bug where the Twisters slow effect actually affects a burrowed Chomper. How that could make it through testing remains a mystery. But it has to go. Only the Engineer should be able to touch a burrowed Chomper with his stun weaponry.

I've now been in enough Turf Takeover games to know that a constant barrage of Turbo Twisters and Mechs makes the zombies win. There are not enough Roses to stop one after another. Not to forget that the Pirates Barrel Blast also needs to be dealt with before it ignites. And if there are Roses they are being targeted by the Laser Pirates - or simply by Electro Beams.

The amount of HP the zombie team can throw into a garden with all the defense bonuses and basic HP is too much to deal with. While on the plants team no one can constantly tank all the twisters, Blasters, Barrel Blasts and ZPGs. Occasionally a Bean drops in a graveyard, but that is all the zombies have to fear.

So far i think the plants problem is not their damage output, but their lack of damage reduction. The amount of perfectly timed teamwork the plants require to stop a Twister, Mech or Barrel Blast is rarely to be found to take a heavily defended graveyard.

So my respect goes to people that play Super Brainz without Beam and only a few twisters. And what needs to disappear are players like the screenshot shows.

@Screion

Good feedback, but do you think nerfing a few variants will change anything?

Would you agree or disagree that plants need more health and firepower across the board to be on par with this overload? That is pretty much what I've been saying all along, and my view won't change unless the game changes...

@FiremanAl

I thought maybe Vampire Flower just sucked now and that's why it was doing that...

I'm sure they're working on it, or something. At least it loads, eventually...

@Zaheen1337

No i don't think that buffing the plants will be the solution. Simply because it worked in the Original GW and now primarily the new classes are causing issues.

If anything i think the Chomper could use 25 more HP, and maybe the nuts from the cactus get a buff in HP. It's more of the "zombies have too much power" right now.

This is not only proven by the original GW and its balance (despite the OP Super Commando and Agent Pea), but also by enough Turf Takeover matches that had no Super Brains or masses of Mechs. Because as soon as the tanking and twistering stops it becomes a lot more even. Be it on the offense or defense, a zombie team without that spam has to work a lot harder to win.

Then nerf the Pirate and his "master of all trades" role and address the Scientist issue.

But i am not sure what would be a good step to address the Scientist. Maybe lowering the HP of the heavy hitters to 75. But from my experience, well places Potato Mines and a competent Chomper can frustrate the Scientists pretty quick.

But give the Chomper a break. He cannot be the one that sneaks up behind the camping Pirates, stops the backstabbing Scientist, traps the barrels with Spikeweed and eats all the twisters in between.

@Screion

Okay well I agree with your balancing ideas, but after they destroyed Rose I don't wish to comment about any more nerfs, I'm happy with buffs, and after one side is too strong, zombies can be buffed.

Whether you buff one side, or Nerf the other - the outcome should be the same if done correctly. Since there is no way that anyone can stop Imp Mechs, or spam by them, something has to be done about them too. A possible counter by increasing the EMPeavh stun duration of even a complete overhaul of the Mech by lowering its health to 150. I don't see why Imp should have 2 lives, one with 75 and another with 400. That gives the damn class almost 500 health, and with the Drake he has a shield which puts him way over 500. Now don't try and tell me that is fair or balanced man...

Chomper needs fixing, broken mechanics make him even virtually unplayable. Yes he should be capable of doing all those things, zombies have an ace card that you may not know about yet but I'm not going to say it.