Ideas to make the Engineer more interesting

@chogath_playerYeah what he/she said

So dumb down Engineer real heavy just before a huge round of buffs are applied to everyone else?

Maybe I’m missing the point; not trying to sound sarcastic.

EDIT: https://answers.ea.com/t5/General-Discussion/Engineer-s-Stun/m-p/8479349/highlight/false#M8276

@spIash_damage  Well I didn‘t really come up with more buffs to make him more team oriented it better on his own without his turret.My goal was to theoretically make him a interesting class to play because of the current playstyle of spamming projectiles in the direction the opposing team comes from whilst standing next to a turret.

Making him more viable in the aspect of team composition is what I want the Engineer to become.

Can you also tell me exactly what you mean with dumbing the Engineer down, I know than you mean that he seems worse with my changes but can you tell me exactly what? 

I would like to know.

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@Tellingdesaster wrote:

 The Engineer is too strong on his own and his abilities allow him to spam projectiles and give him a free speedboost.He also is too easy too play and does not benefit too much from helping his team.I think the Engineer needs to be rewarded more for helping his teammates and should be less successful at his own.

The Heavy Helper

It‘s too easy for the Engineer to put it down anywhere and use it's Infinite ammo and ROF increase for himself.The Heavy Helper doesn‘t  do a lot on it‘s own.It might as well not even shoot to begin with.

I think the Heavy Helper needs a Buildup time so people can‘t just put it down in front of a plant and expect it to buff the user instantly.I think the Buildup time needs to be around 5 seconds long and builds twice as fast if the the Engineer is standing next to it.The Turrets health will increase from 1 to max health during it‘s Buildup time and will only begin shooting and giving buffs to everyone next to it if it’s finished building.I would also propose a buff in it‘s damage and accuracy so it will actually be somewhat threatening to the opposing team.However I would also decrease it‘s max health to be easier to destroy so that the Engineer can‘t just use it to vanquish plants and replace it if it has been damaged too much.The time it takes to place another Turret currently takes too long if has not been damaged.The time after moving the Heavy Helper should increase the more it was damaged.

no damage taken=5 seconds 

half health=10 seconds

destroyed=15 seconds

The Double Time

The Double Time effect doesn‘t last very long and isn‘t very effictive outside of modes with fixed spawns (Gnome bomb,Turf Takeover).So People use it to easily get out of sticky situation for free whenever they wanted to.I would would also add a Buildup timer to it (works how I explained in the Heavy Helper segment).Giving the Engineer two would help with problems like crosspaths in some places in maps and increasing the length of the effect would make them more useful for the team. Decreasing the time it takes to build another one or placing it somewhere else would help the Engineer to keep up with the spawns of the team.The Engineer himself does not know if his Speed Pad has been destroyed.So displaying it somewhere or giving the player a small message (like with the Heavy Helper if it has been destroyed) would make it easier to know. 

The Bullhorn Swarm

I think the Bullhorn Swarm is ok how it currently is but there is still two things I wanted to point out.If you hit a plant with the main bullhorn the stun  would be instantly put on the enemy and no extra bullhorns will come out (stun will be as long as if all bullhorns had hit the plant, maybe even add a extra 0,5 seconds on top for hitting the plant directly).And let the bullhorns stay in place until they have been shot (also make it easier to shot them)

or if the Engineer placed down another one.

Primary

The primary of the Engineer is too easy to use.Add smaller hitradius, make its splashradius bigger and after the projectile hits the ground it can no longer hit a critical hit.

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There ya go... the highlighted parts are dumbing the character down TREMENDOUSLY.  Five seconds for the turret to build .... Talk about useless.  

It’s obvious to me that you dislike Engineer (at least it seems that way).   

What’s your favorite character (rhetorical question)... can you imagine adding FIVE seconds to their abilities?

Also - make the primary weapon’s AOE (area of effect) less while increasing splash radius while decreasing splash hits (no more critical).... so you’re trying to reduce the amount of critical hits, too?

5 second warm up for an easier to kill turret with primary fire gaining less critical hits.... that’s what I call dumbing him down.

I am not trying to sound rude or mean.... zero offense intended. 🙏👍

.@spIash_damage  I actually like the Engineer (the concept at least). Yes the 5 seconds seem a bit harsh but remember If the Engineer is next to it ,it will be up in 2,5.My goal was to create more interesting matchups. For example: 

The Engineer places his Heavy Helper down then approaches the plant in an 1v1 . The Engineer tries to survive and attack long enough till his turret can finish the enemy off . As a reference I took the sentry from Tf2 where thoughtful and smart placement rewarded the player.

The Engineer‘s Heavy Helper can only buff people in it‘s range and it basically doesn‘t even do anything on it‘s own.With making him weaker when he‘s on his own I meant not spam the enemy with projectiles .Like I said the Engineer should help his team . His primary also should not be so easy to use so rewarding him more with hitting direct hits is the right way in my eyes. Him still hitting directs when his projectiles have already hit the floor or walls makes for interesting ways to beat an opponent (theoretically  citron) .Now that I think of it there‘s only upsides with that. I want the current Engineer playstyle to be punished and playing smart rewarded. I‘m not exactly sure what he needs but what he definently needs is more complexity.

I realized this whilst trying to level up as him, how boring it can be playing as him . He currently feels repetitive and isn‘t much fun to play as him.

That also was my goal with my post.

I know that it is possible to use a turret like I proposed it because the Engineer from Tf2 is not a braindead character with his sentry because it‘s vulnarability and its power balance out so only placement makes the difference in it‘s effectiveness .In this case buffs also make a difference which has to be balanced with power and the vulnerability .

I just proposed in which way we could possibly go with his Heavy Helper.

I'm not saying you have bad ideas - who am I to say... but your references don't make sense to me because I've only played PVZ the last 3 - 4 years.  Before that, only the Unreal Tournament series, dating back to the originals (on PC).

I think Engineer is continually being thrown under the bus and it's silly when Zombies are super overpowered and I believe 3 other characters (Super Brainz, Space Cadet/Station, and Scientist) are FAR superior to him.

If you believe your suggested changes would make him more interesting for you to play and I think it would limit him more, we can both be correct because our playstyles are likely (very) different.  Neither of us has to be "right," if that makes sense.

🙂  I absolutely applaud you for being creative enough to make a suggestion and don't wanna rain on your parade so please don't hear me as saying right/wrong.

I just disagree with the changes for reasons listed above.

The Heavy Helper is primarily most useful against players who are too busy charging around to be on the lookout for it- it seems to me that you're presenting it as something which can be slapped down in any situation, at any time, anywhere with it always being super effective but that really isn't the case.

I've had Engineers plant it in a desperate attempt to save themselves only to have the Helper get destroyed before it can do much at all, and I've done that sort of thing myself when I realized I've blundered into a bad situation with the same useless outcome for the Helper and my Engineer laying face down in the dirt. My own personal experience is that the Heavy Helper probably won't save you or last very long when it's slapped down without much forethought.

As far as using it tactically that's another matter entirely. With good placement the Heavy Helper can help hold down a choke point or ambush a Plant which is busy sprinting around carelessly but the thing to remember is that the map layouts in BfN feature multiple routes to any objective so a Heavy Helper used in this way only remains effective if the Plants stubbornly keep charging into it instead of switching tactics and routes. I find that once more tactically minded players know that a Heavy helper is in play it doesn't tend to survive very much longer.

So, in my opinion, the Heavy Helper doesn't need these changes to make it easier for the Plants because it's usually pretty easy to take it out once players stop running into it face first.

As far as the Engineers primary weapon is concerned, I don't know if you played GW1 or GW2 but in that game the Engineers Concrete Launcher didn't bounce- it exploded on impact with splash damage. So in GW2 if you were bunnyhopping around or so mobile my Engineer couldn't score a direct hit I could just fire at the ground near you instead and be almost as effective which is a far cry from BfN's Concrete Launcher which would probably harmlessly bounce past you and explode somewhere behind you instead.

If an Engineer is standing next to his Heavy Helper and just spamming fire through a doorway then you shouldn't just keep charging into the line of fire when there is undoubtedly another route which you could take which would probably allow you to flank him.