I disagree. Even with the current quest times, you can manage to get one pack per day. Or basically even a guranteed daily pack during an event because of the special quests.
Forum Discussion
30 Replies
- Please explain how can you do it?
Well, you get 70-80 gems every day and with the special quests giving 20 you can get 90-100, it seems.
In any case, I don't think it's a terrible model and I think it's probably more than 30 minutes. Each quest can take around 1-3 games depending on how you do and what kind of quest it is so let's say that on average you do 2 games per quest, and you usually do 7-8 quests each day (24/3 = 8) so that would be around 14-16 games and around 5 minutes per game that gets you about 70-80 minutes. Add to that time to design decks and fool around. And course this is just the minimum time if you want to fulfill all your quests and nothing more.
This is actually pretty good time for a person who has a busy life and/or other games to play on their mobile phones. I think it's actually a pretty good strategy to make a mobile game that appeals to the mobile gamer.
Even then, in practice most people will certainly be playing more as they try to test out decks and grind the ladder. At a rate of 1-2 hours a day each player is getting new cards every day for the first few weeks thanks to the hero coins and the gems from the ladder. It is only after a few weeks when the rate of new cards starts to slow down, once you have all the basic cards and your reach gold rank. Of course, by then you have plenty of cards and should have lots of decks and strategies to try out.
I can certainly agree that it would be nice to have a few other gameplay options. This would likely increase ways to get more gems daily which would appeal to those who are obsessed with rewards, but to me the important thing is having the extra gameplay. And as I've said before, it's a brand new game so just give it time.
- No, the rate of you getting 20 gems quests is much lower than 1 per day, it's more one per week even if you use the renew quest all the time and it could be a 30 gems cornucopia shill. 100 gems quest is now set to monthly basis. You just got one on 21st, right?
Also to get all 8 quests daily you have to be dedicated to the game to another extent, doing the quest in 3 hours frame it appears. Once you have got all 3, your timer stops and you are wasting time. Even 10 minutes wasted means you won't do 8 quests this day, only 7.
And to buy a pack you need 2 20 gems quests DAILY so I have asked him how us it possible, unless he is a cheater like grinningwhoever who gets 800 gems per week for several months.
@megraam wrote:
No, the rate of you getting 20 gems quests is much lower than 1 per day, it's more one per week even if you use the renew quest all the time and it could be a 30 gems cornucopia shill. 100 gems quest is now set to monthly basis. You just got one on 21st, right?
Also to get all 8 quests daily you have to be dedicated to the game to another extent, doing the quest in 3 hours frame it appears. Once you have got all 3, your timer stops and you are wasting time. Even 10 minutes wasted means you won't do 8 quests this day, only 7.
And to buy a pack you need 2 20 gems quests DAILY so I have asked him how us it possible, unless he is a cheater like grinningwhoever who gets 800 gems per week for several months.Maybe the rate of YOU getting 20 gem quests is "much lower than 1 per day".
I get at least one 20 gem quest a day. I've had the 30 gem Cornucopia quest 3 times in the last week. And I get the 100 gem quest about 3 times a month.
You get less than everyone else because no one likes you. The entire world is in collusion to ruin every day of your life because you are so extremely annoying.
See you next whine.
@GrinningRuiner wrote:
Maybe the rate of YOU getting 20 gem quests is "much lower than 1 per day".
I get at least one 20 gem quest a day. I've had the 30 gem Cornucopia quest 3 times in the last week. And I get the 100 gem quest about 3 times a month.
You get less than everyone else because no one likes you. The entire world is in collusion to ruin every day of your life because you are so extremely annoying.
See you next whine.
Anyone can get monthly 100 gems quest 3 times a month if they set the false date in their phone like you do, it's not something unbelievable. However, those who don't cheat get this quest once per month. Last time everyone has got 100 gems quest is 21st of November.Anyway, there is a new abuse plaguing the ladder now and devs don't bother to fix it.
Have fun being owned by these 4 turn zombots.
- Because they should actually pay attention to their game?
Also tickets to support aren't submitted through public means of communication. Not my game so I won't be able to submit it. The guy who experienced it has done it apparently.
- Maybe you're just so close minded that you ignore facts
@megraam wrote:
No, the rate of you getting 20 gems quests is much lower than 1 per day, it's more one per week even if you use the renew quest all the time and it could be a 30 gems cornucopia shill. 100 gems quest is now set to monthly basis. You just got one on 21st, right?
Also to get all 8 quests daily you have to be dedicated to the game to another extent, doing the quest in 3 hours frame it appears. Once you have got all 3, your timer stops and you are wasting time. Even 10 minutes wasted means you won't do 8 quests this day, only 7.
And to buy a pack you need 2 20 gems quests DAILY so I have asked him how us it possible, unless he is a cheater like grinningwhoever who gets 800 gems per week for several months.You're being very obtuse about this. You know that you can stack up to 3 quests, so that gives you over 8 hours to find a moment to play the game between each stack of 3 quests without losing any of your precious quest gems. In any case, you don't have to get all 80 gems. If you get over 50 you are still getting a pack every two days without counting any bonuses from ranked or special quests. If you care about that number being less than what you get in Hearthstone then your problem is that you are focusing on quantity as opposed to quality.
The question is, are you having fun with this game with the cards you have? If not, then getting more gems won't make it better for you because the only thing that will happen is that everyone else will ALSO get more gems and their decks will be better and you'll win and lose just as much as you are winning and losing right now, thus getting more gems would do nothing for you. It's not like playing with legendary cards is more fun than playing with cards of lesser rarity.
@Gabochido wrote:You're being very * about this. You know that you can stack up to 3 quests, so that give you over 8 hours to find a moment to play the game between each stack of 3 quests without losing any of your precious quest gems. In any case, you don't have to get all 80 gems. If you get over 50 you are still getting a pack every two days without counting any bonuses from ranked or special quests. If you care about that number being less than what you get in Hearthstone then your problem is that you are focusing on quantity as opposed to quality.
The question is, are you having fun with this game? If not, then getting more gems won't make it better for you because the only thing that will happen is that everyone else will ALSO get more gems and their decks will be better and you'll win and lose just as much as you are winning and losing right now, thus getting more gems would do nothing for you. It's not like playing with legendary cards is more fun than playing with cards of lesser rarity.
No, you have a problem with math. In order to get 80 gems per 24 hours you have to play a quest before the 3rd one appears, otherwise you have a delay before another 3 hour timer starts.
You move your goalposts quite quickly, don't you? 1 pack per 2 days doesn't give you any sense of progress at all. It's too slow, like I have mentioned in my first post. You, since you have abused limited release droprate, don't understand it, you will understand it only once new card set comes out and they should really make it buyable only with new currency since you stockpile gems for it already while other players just build card pool from old cards.
Boosting the general droprate and gem grind is great for everyone, not only me. Yes, they will get better cards and so will I. Since my skill is better than their, I will win.
@megraam wrote:
@Gabochido wrote:You're being very * about this. You know that you can stack up to 3 quests, so that give you over 8 hours to find a moment to play the game between each stack of 3 quests without losing any of your precious quest gems. In any case, you don't have to get all 80 gems. If you get over 50 you are still getting a pack every two days without counting any bonuses from ranked or special quests. If you care about that number being less than what you get in Hearthstone then your problem is that you are focusing on quantity as opposed to quality.
The question is, are you having fun with this game? If not, then getting more gems won't make it better for you because the only thing that will happen is that everyone else will ALSO get more gems and their decks will be better and you'll win and lose just as much as you are winning and losing right now, thus getting more gems would do nothing for you. It's not like playing with legendary cards is more fun than playing with cards of lesser rarity.
No, you have a problem with math. In order to get 80 gems per 24 hours you have to play a quest before the 3rd one appears, otherwise you have a delay before another 3 hour timer starts.
You move your goalposts quite quickly, don't you? 1 pack per 2 days doesn't give you any sense of progress at all. It's too slow, like I have mentioned in my first post. You, since you have abused limited release droprate, don't understand it, you will understand it only once new card set comes out and they should really make it buyable only with new currency since you stockpile gems for it already while other players just build card pool from old cards.
Boosting the general droprate and gem grind is great for everyone, not only me. Yes, they will get better cards and so will I. Since my skill is better than their, I will win.
🤨
You say someone else has a problem with math????? Ahahahahahahahahaha
That's the least of your problems. Try looking up the definition of "abuse" You haven't used it correctly yet.
Being an abuser of high droprate is still better than being a cheater who sets up a future date in his phone or a liar like you anyway.
@megraam wrote:No, you have a problem with math. In order to get 80 gems per 24 hours you have to play a quest before the 3rd one appears, otherwise you have a delay before another 3 hour timer starts.
You move your goalposts quite quickly, don't you? 1 pack per 2 days doesn't give you any sense of progress at all. It's too slow, like I have mentioned in my first post. You, since you have abused limited release droprate, don't understand it, you will understand it only once new card set comes out and they should really make it buyable only with new currency since you stockpile gems for it already while other players just build card pool from old cards.
Boosting the general droprate and gem grind is great for everyone, not only me. Yes, they will get better cards and so will I. Since my skill is better than their, I will win.
You're right, I made a mistake in how I calculated it. I guess you only have 6 hours. And yes I do move my goalposts, to fit what I feel is a good amount, specially given that this is the absolute minimum. You seem to be completely obsessed with absolute values so I'd like to know why 1 pack every 2 days doesn't give you any sense of progress at all and it's too slow? This is a completely subjective feeling and yet you continue to go on about it as if it was some absolute mathematical value.
Another thing, if your skill is better, why aren't you winning now? Why do you keep complaining that you need more gems? It seems to be just for the sake of it.
Put on your developer hat on. What rate of progression is good in a game like this and why?
Take into account that giving people more isn't necessarily good for the game. One way to divide a customer base is into players who constantly need rewards (like you) and those who enjoy the game for what it is. For those who enjoy the game for what it is, it doesn't really matter what rewards you give them, the game will be equally fun. For those who need rewards to enjoy the game there needs to be a balance because the rewards need to matter and that means that they have to affect gameplay and if you give them all the gameplay elements too quickly, then there won't be any more things for them to aspire to and they will lose interest so giving them too much is counterproductive beyond the simple financial implications of nobody interested in paying for the game other than to donate to the developers.
1 pack in 2 days is too slow because actually as you can expect it's not 1 pack in 2 days. It's 23 packs in a month or so (after you get your first 23 packs fast).
When you count the relative value 5k packs are the best but it takes a crazy amount of time to grind so the next amount is 2k packs.
Minmaxers (okay, I am a minmaxer but there are a lot of people like me) won't be able to afford themselves wasting their gems on single packs. They will be saving for 2k pack but be frustrated they have to do it on a such slowly pace. Like me.
And while you grind your gems to this 2k pack you indeed don't have any progress at all. They can't remove the 2k pack now since it stimulates people to buy gems but it makes others to play a month with no progress at all.
I do win right now but it's too easy to overpower with p2w decks right now, or even worse, by those who haven't spent a dime yet have everything from ios version. The worst part here are heroes, since you can't build a competitive deck without a specific hero like knuckles, CC or prof. The only viable alternative is super brains or solar flare which are much worse.
No one expects anyone to get everything in a card game since there always are new expansions and card sets.
You were right the first time Gabo.
Let's say the quest board is empty, and then when a quest comes in you complete it in 5 minutes. At that point you have 8 hours and 55 minutes before the quests stop stacking.
For me, I get a quest around 10:30 every night. I finish it right away and then go to bed around 11:00. So, when I get up at 6:30 the next morning, the first thing I do is go to the bathroom, and squeeze out a couple megraams while I catch up on quests - with about an hour to spare. No time is wasted, and I end up with 700+ gems every week.
Piece
of
cake
@megraam wrote:
1 pack in 2 days is too slow because actually as you can expect it's not 1 pack in 2 days. It's 23 packs in a month or so (after you get your first 23 packs fast).
When you count the relative value 5k packs are the best but it takes a crazy amount of time to grind so the next amount is 2k packs.
Minmaxers (okay, I am a minmaxer but there are a lot of people like me) won't be able to afford themselves wasting their gems on single packs. They will be saving for 2k pack but be frustrated they have to do it on a such slowly pace. Like me.
And while you grind your gems to this 2k pack you indeed don't have any progress at all. They can't remove the 2k pack now since it stimulates people to buy gems but it makes others to play a month with no progress at all.
I do win right now but it's too easy to overpower with p2w decks right now, or even worse, by those who haven't spent a dime yet have everything from ios version. The worst part here are heroes, since you can't build a competitive deck without a specific hero like knuckles, CC or prof. The only viable alternative is super brains or solar flare which are much worse.
No one expects anyone to get everything in a card game since there always are new expansions and card sets.
That's a good, respectful answer without hyperbole and only a little bit subjective. It's a shame you didn't start there and it took 8 pages to get to the actual problems you are having.
Problem 1) 2k and 5k packs make min/maxers (I'm one myself) suffer from not progressing because they feel the need to get the most (even though it's not really such a huge gain). I definitely agree with this and felt the same pain, but obviously I was doing it to myself for a greater gain. I think it might be best if they just removed those options and reduced the pack size to something like 500 and 1000 gems, and left the 2k and 5k packs as cash only. This reduces the psycological effect for us min/maxers while leaving the option for those who do want to spend some money. Another idea would be to have an option that combines gems and cash, for example 1000 gems + $7 for the 2K pack. That's very likely how many people purcahse the 2K and 5k packs anyway and it stops f2p players from feeling that they have to wait to get to 2K gems before getting new packs.
Problem 2) Unbalanced heroes. You are saying that you think that specific heroes are better than others. If this is true then it needs a rebalancing. I keep seeing threads about how each of the heroes seem to have some OP combination so I get the feeling that it's not as unbalanced as you seem to think. This is the kind of thing that should be discussed in the strategy section though because that's where people chime in with the best strategies on how to play each hero.
Problem 3) Mismatching. If you are getting matched against decks that are out of your league because they spent more money or have been playing longer, that definitely creates a bad experience. Giving everyone all the cards would certainly solve this, but, as I mentioned, that creates other problems. Getting more cards faster won't actually solve the problem as there will always be someone who has played more or spent more than you, though it might reduce it a bit, but what rate is the correct one. You didn't actually give an estimate of what rate you would be happy with. Even so, this wouldn't be at all necessary if you were just matched against people of the same level as you because then the games would be fair and would be enjoyable and fun.
@GrinningRuiner wrote:
You were right the first time Gabo.
Let's say the quest board is empty, and then when a quest comes in you complete it in 5 minutes. At that point you have 8 hours and 55 minutes before the quests stop stacking.
For me, I get a quest around 10:30 every night. I finish it right away and then go to bed around 11:00. So, when I get up at 6:30 the next morning, the first thing I do is go to the bathroom, and squeeze out a couple megraams while I catch up on quests - with about an hour to spare. No time is wasted, and I end up with 700+ gems every week.
Thanks Grinning! This is what happens when I try to do math and answer posts while at work! I really should concentrate on just one or the other.
@GrinningRuiner wrote:
You were right the first time Gabo.
Let's say the quest board is empty, and then when a quest comes in you complete it in 5 minutes. At that point you have 8 hours and 55 minutes before the quests stop stacking.
For me, I get a quest around 10:30 every night. I finish it right away and then go to bed around 11:00. So, when I get up at 6:30 the next morning, the first thing I do is go to the bathroom, and squeeze out a couple megraams while I catch up on quests - with about an hour to spare. No time is wasted, and I end up with 700+ gems every week.
Piece
of
cake
Ahhh, maintaining your schedule according to the game you play and even failing to have a proper amount of sleep per day because of it. Aren't you dedicated? What makes you be so sure that "I get a quest around 10:30 every night" unless you are indeed a slave of this game who values it over everything?Anyway, this is exactly what I meant, you have to finish a quest which just appeared in 5 minutes as in as soon as it appears. So you've repeated what I have said.
However, it makes 8 quests daily and 56 quests per week which leaves us at 560 default gems. I love how quickly you have chickened out of your bold and proud 800 gems per week statement but even with your reduced 700 gems claim you need to get 14 20 gems quests per week as in 2 of your 8 daily quests should be 20 gems. Not possible, since I do the same, 7-8 quests daily and I recycle 10 gems quests every time I have a chance to do it.
@Gabochido wrote:
That's a good, respectful answer without hyperbole and only a little bit subjective. It's a shame you didn't start there and it took 8 pages to get to the actual problems you are having.
Problem 1) 2k and 5k packs make min/maxers (I'm one myself) suffer from not progressing because they feel the need to get the most (even though it's not really such a huge gain). I definitely agree with this and felt the same pain, but obviously I was doing it to myself for a greater gain. I think it might be best if they just removed those options and reduced the pack size to something like 500 and 1000 gems, and left the 2k and 5k packs as cash only. This reduces the psycological effect for us min/maxers while leaving the option for those who do want to spend some money. Another idea would be to have an option that combines gems and cash, for example 1000 gems + $7 for the 2K pack. That's very likely how many people purcahse the 2K and 5k packs anyway and it stops f2p players from feeling that they have to wait to get to 2K gems before getting new packs.
Problem 2) Unbalanced heroes. You are saying that you think that specific heroes are better than others. If this is true then it needs a rebalancing. I keep seeing threads about how each of the heroes seem to have some OP combination so I get the feeling that it's not as unbalanced as you seem to think. This is the kind of thing that should be discussed in the strategy section though because that's where people chime in with the best strategies on how to play each hero.
Problem 3) Mismatching. If you are getting matched against decks that are out of your league because they spent more money or have been playing longer, that definitely creates a bad experience. Giving everyone all the cards would certainly solve this, but, as I mentioned, that creates other problems. Getting more cards faster won't actually solve the problem as there will always be someone who has played more or spent more than you, though it might reduce it a bit, but what rate is the correct one. You didn't actually give an estimate of what rate you would be happy with. Even so, this wouldn't be at all necessary if you were just matched against people of the same level as you because then the games would be fair and would be enjoyable and fun.
This is exactly what I have said in my first post though. Just a little more detailed but the source of the problem is the same. Game suggests you to grind 2000 gems, doing it takes 2 weeks at best with no visible progress at all: it's very hard not to lose interest in the game.
Also there is what I call bottleneck: first 2000 come rather easily thanks to the hero quests and easy ladder but then the difference between first 2000 and second one is shocking and disappointing. This is what makes people quit and they DO quit since the game has drastically lost its popularity.
Heroes WILL be unbalanced. One hero will be definitely better than the other. No one plays z-tech or chomper, they are just as bad. When powers of the hero are in synergy with the deck you play it's much better. Compare green shadow moss with CC moss and you will understand what do I mean.
There are several staple cards most decks run be it a teleport for most popular zombies or grapes of wrath for popular plants (as in mirror nut as alternative to be picky). Some legendaries, sometimes in astonishing quantities (3 tricksters anyone?)
Being stomped by this kind of a deck feels better when you know you have something in your deck yourself. If you don't and you still see these cards beating you it's disappointing a lot.
The problem is, the ladder is quite full with them. The only bad thing here they stop your gems grind because of the faulty model gems per rank advance, it should be gems per win.
Instead of getting 40 gems per rank advance you should get 2 gems per win for example (talking diamond). I hope you understand why.
@megraam wrote:This is exactly what I have said in my first post though. Just a little more detailed but the source of the problem is the same. Game suggests you to grind 2000 gems, doing it takes 2 weeks at best with no visible progress at all: it's very hard not to lose interest in the game.
Also there is what I call bottleneck: first 2000 come rather easily thanks to the hero quests and easy ladder but then the difference between first 2000 and second one is shocking and disappointing. This is what makes people quit and they DO quit since the game has drastically lost its popularity.
Heroes WILL be unbalanced. One hero will be definitely better than the other. No one plays z-tech or chomper, they are just as bad. When powers of the hero are in synergy with the deck you play it's much better. Compare green shadow moss with CC moss and you will understand what do I mean.
There are several staple cards most decks run be it a teleport for most popular zombies or grapes of wrath for popular plants (as in mirror nut as alternative to be picky). Some legendaries, sometimes in astonishing quantities (3 tricksters anyone?)
Being stomped by this kind of a deck feels better when you know you have something in your deck yourself. If you don't and you still see these cards beating you it's disappointing a lot.
The problem is, the ladder is quite full with them. The only bad thing here they stop your gems grind because of the faulty model gems per rank advance, it should be gems per win.
Instead of getting 40 gems per rank advance you should get 2 gems per win for example (talking diamond). I hope you understand why.
You do make some useful points. For example, perhaps making it so that you get a couple of gems after each win WOULD make the game more enjoyable and addictive (I've suggested it myself, actually).
Unfortunately, you're very disrespectful and obnoxious in your tone, which is why you are getting the pushback. I don't know if you expect developers to pay more attention when you write like that but it doesn't really work that way, all you do is get those who get worked up about forum trash having fun at your expense.
You also make some rather poor points. Why would heroes have to be unbalanced? yes, it is difficult to balance them, but that should be the focus of the designers to make the game better. A game that tries to hide design problems by showering its players with rewards is destined for failure.
Here's another thing, when is enough, enough? In my experience, if a player keeps getting matched up against someone who has better cards than them, they won't be happy until they have EXACTLY the same cards as their opponents and anything before that will always generate posts like this one demanding bigger rewards. So the problem is usually not the progression rate, it's the balancing of the matchups. Unfortunately, in this model (collectible card game) there will always be cards that you don't have and there will always be people who are convinced that they can't win just because they don't have those cards.
You refuse to believe all this and insist that getting a faster progression would make the experience better. You insist that a game is not fun if it does not have constant and fast progression but I can tell you from experience that it's not so. It's true that modern online games and the microtransaction model has made many people very spoiled about this, but the most critically acclaimed games don't rely on a generous suite of rewards or fast progression, they rely on fun and addictive gameplay that you can repeat over and over.
Unfortunately, the best I can do to try to show you this is point you to a couple of examples: a game where progression is slow but the matchups are balanced and it is successful (Clash Royale) and a game where rewards are huge but the matchups are unbalanced and the game is unsuccessful (Solforge).
The focus should not be on making the progression faster, it should be on making the progression fun. That's what makes a good game succeed. I hope you understand why. (<- see how obnoxious this sounds?)
@Gabochido wrote:
Unfortunately, you're very disrespectful and obnoxious in your tone, which is why you are getting the pushback. I don't know if you expect developers to pay more attention when you write like that but it doesn't really work that way, all you do is get those who get worked up about forum trash having fun at your expense.
Which kind of pushback do I get, could you be more specific? Also who are "those who get worked up", care to give me at least 3 examples?
@Gabochido wrote:You also make some rather poor points. Why would heroes have to be unbalanced? yes, it is difficult to balance them, but that should be the focus of the designers to make the game better. A game that tries to hide design problems by showering its players with rewards is destined for failure.
Please give me an example of a game where heroes are different yet balanced.
@Gabochido wrote:You refuse to believe all this and insist that getting a faster progression would make the experience better. You insist that a game is not fun if it does not have constant and fast progression but I can tell you from experience that it's not so. It's true that modern online games and the microtransaction model has made many people very spoiled about this, but the most critically acclaimed games don't rely on a generous suite of rewards or fast progression, they rely on fun and addictive gameplay that you can repeat over and over.
Unfortunately, the best I can do to try to show you this is point you to a couple of examples: a game where progression is slow but the matchups are balanced and it is successful (Clash Royale) and a game where rewards are huge but the matchups are unbalanced and the game is unsuccessful (Solforge).
The focus should not be on making the progression faster, it should be on making the progression fun. That's what makes a good game succeed. I hope you understand why. (<- see how obnoxious this sounds?)
A faster progression will give the player a sense of a progress and an accomplishment. Right now in PVZH you have to grind for 2 weeks or more without having ANY progress which matters at all, since you can't afford to buy 2k pack or you can't progress at the ladder (I mean plat+ now).
Let me tell you, the most critically acclaimed and popular CCG has arguably more fun and addictive gameplay than PVZH (at least it definitely MORE variable) and its rewards and progression is much better than PVZH. Obviously I don't mean clash royale or solforge.
Which kind of a fun progression do you see in a PVZH past first 2k pack and plat league?
- He is valuable in terms of opinion, EA and Popcap always wants our opinions and is very open to them, everyone is so respect it
bump.
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