Re: May 2018 Balance Changes

Here's what I think about these changes.

Citron

1. His damage output at close range is increased by a few points, but isn't that overkill?

2. His damage output at long range is decreased to a level that easily puts him on the rank of F minus.

3. As for the blast damage, reducing it to a level that makes it almost non-existent just doesn't work well.

Frozen Citron

His long range damage output being reduced further, that is doubtful.

Electro Citron

1. His damage output at long range being reduced by over half the original damage level is just sacrilege. It's already very difficult to fire at the right time with his uncharged shot largely because there is no "Auto-Fire" option for him, thereby reducing everyone's overall firing accuracy with him.

2. Reducing the blast damage output of his Second Charge Shot just doesn't add up. It's even more doubtful at longer range, with almost half his damage output reduced. I don't understand it.

3. His Third Charge Shot has the same story with the Second Charge Shot, again making it more doubtful.

Iron Citron

In all seriousness, why reduce the damage output of his Mech Breaker to just 15 at long range? It doesn't make any sense to me. His issue is not with the standard damage output at long range; it's getting all levels of damage from his Mech Breaker to penetrate armor at targets like the Mech Gargantuar, so that those types of enemies fall much quicker. And there's still no change to the effectiveness of his Super Meter Upgrade; it's completely useless against only players in Team Vanquish, Vanquish Confirmed, Suburbination etc. If you want us to use that upgrade for Iron Citron - and for other characters that use it - improve it.

Party Citron

His changes share almost the exact same story as the standard Citron - with a slightly higher damage at long range versus the standard Citron - but while his close range damage output is the same, his blast damage output is again reduced to a level that's almost non-existent.

Toxic Citron

Reducing his direct hit damage output at long range isn't that big of an issue, but what's more of an issue is the damage output of his weapon's lingering damage clouds. If his lingering damage clouds were increased in damage output from 2 to 3, it will help curb the changes made to his weapon at long range.

EMPeach

Hasn't the EMPeach ability been done to death long enough? If you keep this up, you'll make his EMPeach ability almost completely useless, to the point where it's unable to do anything to help his teammates.

Engineer

Increased direct hit damage output of his weapon to 40? Doubtful. The range of his projectiles still need to be increased if he's going to be better in combat.

Painter

The new changes for him make sense, since he is a ranged variant of the engineers.

Plumber

Inner blast radius of his projectiles being increased somewhat make sense, since his weapon is all about splash damage.

Sanitation Expert

I don't know how much his projectile's speed has increased by, but AT LEAST he finally has something to answer for.

Jackhammer Abilities

Jackhammer - The duration may be shorter by 20%, but the cooldown time with that ability is faster.

Turbo Jackhammer - The duration of the Turbo Jackhammer is increased by 70%, at the cost of a slightly longer cooldown time. It might somewhat catch on with players.

My overall score for these changes - 6 out of 10, a mixed score. It seems somewhat very damaging to the Citron class based on the reduction of the long range damage output of their weapons - and to their EMPeach ability. As for some of the Engineer variants, at least two much-needed changes were implemented.

The only real test with these changes is to test them in the new community challenge happening now.

Electro Citron nerfed into uselessness. It was already not that great a variant, now its trash tier.

Charge variants encourage cover use/long-range but now the damage at range is completely pathetic. Not sure why Electro Citron/Iron Citron received straight nerfs with no compensation while the default got +Damage at close range. The class seems overall less balanced now and some of the citron variants are the big losers with this patch.

I just find it mind-boggling that it took them over 2 years to figure out that Citron is too much. Its still the worst character in the game but now at least we reach a zone in which it is no longer a complete 'snipe-with-200-HP-and-ball-up-to-run-away-when-contested'-character. Maybe at some point Popcap will actually play their own game. But i am still not convinced.

Simply because the only Citron that is actually decent at what it does: Toxic Citron. Great to suppress groups, good for Assist Master, but even then barely deadly. Awful in 1v1. And now even Toxic got nerfed...

Not to forget poor Sanitation Expert no one ever played.

The other Jackhammer buffs i find reasonable. Burrow Spam is one of the lows in this game and the Engineer needs more tools against it. More Jackhammer riding means more protection against Burrow. But his Stun weaponry still needs anti-Burrow adjustments.

I played Citrons and engies last night while getting quests done, especially since one quest was to stun 3 chompers out of burrow and another was 50 vanquishes as a citron, and citrons definitely play differently now. Standard Citron is a terror up close but the drop off makes distance damage more of a poke than anything else. Playing it reminded me of Super Brainz in a way. Toxic Citron may need a slight uptick of his splash effect, it felt a bit too weak now, but I only played him in one match. 

I didn't try Iron Citron but he also may need a small uptick based on some of the feedback. Electo-Citron at one point was insanely good but I didn't get a chance to play him yet either so will have to get more data to say for sure.

The Engineer changes weren't as far reaching so didn't notice them as much as the Citron changes which were striking.

Overall these seem like a step in the right direction. The hidden citron freeze sniping thing wasn't happening in MP games last night and that used to be extremely common.

My opinion about this balance is more negative than positive.

Citrons were characters which was good when they was played by good players and useless characters when played by bad/new.
I know it because 90% of the citron i have ever met in my life, i could kill them with every zombies easily.

Citron was also one of my favourite characters, he was pleasant to play, good etc...

i found them good except the toxic one which is a pain to play.

For me; citron is a character that you can play at body to body AND at long range.

Removing citron's long range capacities will remove probably 40-50% of the kill you will have and maybe more so it will impact the pleasure you get by playing him.

And this is for the normal one which is probably the citron who gets the better in this balance.

The toxic citron was already bad, it was bad in 1vs1, he was just good to get stolen kills; in fact in was the professional for assist. The electric one was very good provided that you know how to AIM correctly. It is clearly not a body to body character, he has single shots, hold shot, i am sorry but this things cant be a body to body character same if he can kill many zombies at body to body, he's just not for the body to body and it is the feeling i have. Now he is just useless, probably twice worst than the normal one, he's totally unbalanced now, the one that play him is masochistic i think. Actually, citrons were characters where you could do chainkills if you was a good player but now if you do 5 killstreaks, it is probably a lucky day for you.

Now he had the chomper's disease : you play him for fun but you will not have a wonderful score and you will quickly change your character ...

That make me sad, it wasn't my main but just yesterday by the way i did a game where i had 86 kills for 13 000 points on the moon on a game where the second which was good had 40, unfortunaly it was the last time i could have fun with him and a good score... Rest In Peace my friend

So here's there reddit take on the changes:

https://www.reddit.com/r/PvZGardenWarfare/comments/8k5tjc/my_thoughts_on_patch_notes_good_job_popcap/

I need to get some more games in to make any more calls on the changes. There's no question he plays differently though.