Personally, I am terrible at playing plants, but that's not because they are worse, nor is it the other way around. It's because of my lack of experience playing plants. Can't we just accept that maybe neither Plants or Zombies are OP, and that maybe it is merely a lack of experience, mixed in with the occasional unbalanced card?
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31 Replies
- How high do they need to be? There are plenty good zombie players, and there are plenty good zombie decks. I fell back to gold league this season and just got back to diamond couple hours ago.
I play zombies in league play. I prefer zombies, and actually only last season started playing plants and that's a large part of why I never made UL. @Azombioso is a good player that knows alot and can explain very well and he plays rustbolt. Haven't heard from him on forums for awhile.... I know he's from Mexico, I hope everything is okay with him.
And there are plenty other good zombie players. I will say however, that there are some ridiculous plant decks.
And for many of the reasons why plant heroes dislike the way the gameplay favours the zombies, zombies dislike the way the gameplay favours the plants. I'm fine @patdk75, thanks for worring about me. Things just got a little messy around here. (Aaaaaaand I got sick. )
Those things aside, pat is right @jasterrogue1.
There are both plant and zombie players in all leagues, it is just a matter of personal playstyle.
Your thoughts is like me saying: "I always win 9/10 games with control decks, but I only win 3/10 times with aggro decks. Aggro decks suck."
Well, that is true for you, but it doesn't mean it is true for everyone.
I LOVE zombies. I find them more interesting according to playstyle than plants. They are more "tricky" to play.
When you play a Plant deck... that's it. You know what is their whole turn on their sole phase.
When you play a Zombie deck however, if you save 1, 2 or 3 brains the plant heroe play carefully. (Most of the time)
Uuuuuuuhh... does he have a Rocket Science and that's why he saved 3 brains?
Does he have this card? Is he going to play THIS card? etc
It's like... playing mind games with your opponent. And I love it.
And I know more players do as well, but not ALL of them.
But just remember, just because something applies to you, doesn't mean is the only one true opinion.
Yea I play now both alternating. I have now a pretty strong zombie deck but still clique peas ar driving me so mad 😠. There are four decks I see commonly on zombie side: the fat guy with invincible zombies, the professor trick deck, imps and grave digger. On plant decks I often see clique peas, lilies and mass heal. My Pirat deck is pretty fun and I am trying to get up the ladder. But right now I am kind of stuck.
- @Azombioso I am happy to hear that you are doing okay. I don't want to say "doing well or good" because where I live the worst that nature throws at us is 35C summers and -40C winters, so hurricane and earthquake and all that stuff I can't even begin to imagine...but good to hear from you
@Dave058182 I don't know what you mean with the fat guy invincible zombies, are you talking about sports deck? Or the overstuffed zombie? I can translate
the fat guy with invincible zombie = Smash/Sports Deck
Yea that’s right. Sports deck. Ah and control with rust bolt. However I am pretty sure that none of those have a win rate much higher than 50%. Maybe 60% packed with legends and all required events. I am still missing plenty of good events on zombie side. But I also have just the full set of a few plant events. So I don’t know if that will make so much of a difference. I am still curious to see a 70% or higher zombie deck. So far I ve seen nobody here posting that but tons of good plant decks.
I think the big advantage plants have is healing. Zombies have, what, two single-use healing effects (not counting superpowers)?
Plants have several more, including an environment that stays in play to be used repeatedly and can heal more the more powerful plants you put on it, PLUS cards that combo with healing (Heartichoke and Pepper M.D.). I understand the game is asymmetrically designed, but shouldn't something as potent as healing be a little more balanced?
It gets rather frustrating when you're clearing out plants the entire game, and end up doing over 30 damage to the plant hero, only to still have them end the game at more than 20 health.
- Ive both won and lost games where I dealt over 40 damage and on a few occasions over 50. Astro Vera and hearticoke/flytraplanet, and popping poppies AND briar rose..... That is the deck of decks that I can beat consistently, but if they get a good draw the game is over. If I get a bad draw that's the game. But if my cards flow and I had a bad start, I have been able to hit hard and fast to win but again, if they get any of those huge health boosts my swarm has to do good on the block meter, or again...game over.
That is one deck that I have to admit gives me grief but it feels great when I win, but so many times that solar flare or rose, are so agitating that I have to break from the game and go for a walk or something lol. - @jj48car I think you need to take a look at the smash again. Keep in mind, you can also use gargologist and frenzy in that deck if your savvy... That can lead to some big, nasty heals and damage. On top of that, you're getting a sneezing zombie to cancel plant heals.
At this point I think team up is the only plant exclusive ability. Zombies have what? Overshoot, deadly, gravestone, frenzy and all the plant abilities, better card draw, etc. I'm not saying they're op. The game is balanced. I'm just saying some people need to start taking a look at the difference and see who's really on top in that respect. Oh, silly me. Of course, zombies having access to a single legendary card to heal absolutely balances with the plethora of options plants have.
Yes, getting Frenzy on it can lead to rather decent healing, but it also makes a rather huge target that the plant player will take out ASAP. Contrast with Venus Flytraplanet, which is not only not legendary, but works with any plants (especially irritating with Team Up or Strikethrough). Currently the only way to deal with environments is to replace them, so if you don't happen to draw one of your own environments, it doesn't matter how many plants you take out, the plant player still heals.
<sigh> This game would be a hundred times better if they had never added environments.- If by single legendary you mean, nurse Garg (in a gargologist deck for early play), medic, nibble and heroic health in one deck... Then sure, one single way to heal.
And are you really going to talk about the futility of environments to plant players? At least you're guaranteed a round with them in play. We could play a five cost environment only for you to chump it with a 1 cost card before we ever get to use it...
Stop looking at what you don't have and start learning how to use what you do. This game is balanced... But if you are going to try to use it, don't spin it when the facts are only a search away. That deck gets 30 instant heal that can't be stopped and whatever you can get by attacking with nurse Garg... Not exactly small amounts
And since you brought up strikethrough... Plants have 8 cards with it, zombies have six. Zombies also have the strongest with it, one card that provides an entire faction with it and one that gives all zombies played there strikethrough plus deadly... I'd call that pretty even.
@daalnnii wrote:
If by single legendary you mean, nurse Garg (in a gargologist deck for early play), medic, nibble and heroic health in one deck... Then sure, one single way to heal.
And are you really going to take about the futility of environments to plant players? At least you're guaranteed a round with them in play. E could play a five cost environment only for you to chump it with a 1 cost card before we ever get to use it...
Stop looking at what you don't have and start learning how to use what you do. This game is balanced... But if you are going to try to use it, don't spin it when the facts are only a search away. That decks gets 30 instant heal that can't be stopped and whatever you can get by attaching with nurse Garg... Not exactly small amounts
And since you brought up strikethrough... Plants have 8 cards with it, zombies have six. Zombies also have the strongest with it, one card that provides an entire faction with it and one that gives all zombies played there strikethrough plus deadly... I'd call that pretty even.Zombies NEED to be able to chump plant environments, because those environments have utterly ludicrous effects! (e.g. Plants here get +5/+5, Heal your hero every time a plant here does damage, Plants here just flat-out cannot take any damage (basically game-over if Soul Patch ends up on it)).
And I still don't see how a single deck having 30 healing spread over 9 cards can even begin to compare to cheap, repeatable healing from uncommon cards, especially when plants have cards that combo with healing. I'm sorry, but something as powerful as healing already is shouldn't be allowed to combo.
As for Strikethrough, I wasn't concerned about the ability itself, rather the combination of that ability and Venus Flytraplanet can quickly get ridiculous. Since Strikethrough can hit both the zombie and the zombie hero, a single Strikethrough card basically heals for double its attack unless there's no zombie or the hero's shield blocks.- So putting nurse garg in a strikethrough/deadly lane or giving it frenzy with virologist isn't a good combo? When played against the teamups that can be up to 21 heals from one combo... Huh, news to me
- I don't have any gargologists, but after I got a couple nurse gargs and I added them in my smash deck, I have to say that it can be pretty intimidating, playing a nurse garg after I have already had a couple warlords in play, so now I'm playing a 10/10 healing everytime it hurts something.
It's quite a lot of fun actually
@daalnnii wrote:
So putting nurse garg in a strikethrough/deadly lane or giving it frenzy with virologist isn't a good combo? When played against the teamups that can be up to 21 heals from one combo... Huh, news to meWho said anything about it not being good? I'm just saying you can't really claim that a single, legendary card doesn't really balance a selection of uncommons and rares that can accomplish exactly the same thing, plus have other cards that combo off of them.
I think it is quite difficult to talk about balance in this game, everyone has their story, like their luck, I have seen many topics about ''Plants OP'' and ''Zombies OP'' and the truth is that I read and even manage to convince myself with their experiences and their arguments. But just like that, everyone adapts everything to their truth and the debate becomes endless. The problem is knowing who has the ''universal truth''.
It seems to me that such a game is quite difficult to design, creating different and creative sides, without monotony. Anyway, I'm one of those who thinks that the game is not balanced 100%, because it is impossible and obvious, and this has not been created by God, like to think it's perfect.
We have even seen how in each update, the stats of some cards have changed (which proves necessary changes to the balance), and if I'm wrong, they are still looking for a solution for the Click Peas. but I think there is a great balance today, and that is applaudable, at least for all of us to have our time of emotion.
Besides, this game defends itself of those criticisms (Unbalanced) with the random, simply luck depends, even if you have a good deck, the game will get you to lose. This is not chess... it's not a game completely strategy
sometimes I wonder with the luck that I have, and other times I wonder with the luck of the enemy, Example: My Block meter only gets one section, in my enemy got three sections and blocked! and gives the superpower that comes perfect to win.
I have a deck for Potted House... and I have had game where the game throws me these cards in round 12 or 13 ...totally useless, even when all my deck was made for that card. I also happened to SnowDrop, after giving me all the cards to freeze, to the last, send me the SnowDrop, LOL.
That's why I always laugh when I read thread about ''give me a Deck with 100% winrate, or at least 90%'' , you must also realize that you can not defend yourself at all, because this game has a lot of cards, so if I want to create a deck who defend myself from Heartichoke, I am using space to place environments and cards to avoid it, or in the future with Sneezing Zombie, so if you play against a plant that does not heal or just use beans, this card will only bother you... and it's the same with Squirrel Herder, you can put he to destroy Pecanolith right? because he says '' When revealed destroy one nut or berry'' But what happens if your opponent is Green Shadow for example, and don't use Nuts or berries? yeah you are spending a space for a card that will not serve you against all the heroes, and if you analyze all the cards, you will realize that they all have this problem! there is no card that can help and protect you for all cases and enemies, therefore you will never have a perfect deck that always gives you the victories. You need tu put Tricks, zombies, anti-tricks, anti-zombies, drawing cards, bonus attacks, healing cards, move this card... and a lot of diferents conditions, but also a lot of environments in the cases of the enemy have a lot, but when the enemy don't have any, you get a lot of environment what is going to upset your deck (or not, lol xD), I have played games like this, where I have placed 7 environments, and my enemy eliminated them all with his own, and i thought the hell???? (in spanish xD) How many do I have to have in my deck? but still that deck is very weak for other cases.
even for the case of Captain Cucumber, which I have also seen that they have criticized it quite a bit, he gave me 4 reincarnations (I am in the process of understanding the function of this card), 2 bowling in the starting, and also has given me many molekule, I really do not like it because he is going to change the captain, probably by a common card, so it's not an '' OP '' as many say.
In the end, i think i got too far, but my message is: enjoy the game! find the perfect deck doesn't exist, and the decks of plants like zombies are not prepared for all cases, if there is a lot of bad luck, play later or do something else, sometimes the game irritates one too and one comes to this forum to vent, although I do not think that's wrong either xD.
- @jj48car well, you're right. Plant heals are stronger. But, again you still have the power and can use it effectively if you want.
See, you think everything needs to be equal, well then I want a bananasaurus that hides in a gravestone, has overshoot and also frenzy.
Those are three powers plants don't have at all. You know what you don't have that plants do? Team up. That's it.
Look to how you can use what you have, stop trying to nerf the other side.
Let me show you my turn four loss today... It was my heal deck. Do you think clique peas would have helped? - That is a perfect example of how this game can throw a monkey wrench in your plans.
Usually when I have a game like that, I am on my levelling up game. And all you can do(besides yell and curse) is realize that you have probably been on the other end of the thumping many times and they were wondering what can I do to get a win?
It's like with interdimensional zombie...why is it when I have a great play with him, he turns into valkrie for an awesome 0/6 walnut basically. Or everytime it seems like, that he turns when not in an environment or heights, thats when he becomes moonwalker, or custodian. Or when no plants ate on board he turns into landscaper...it's sad that a one cost legendary is basically just fodder, or a target for players who are intimidated by the "legendary status" which is actually really helpful but only with newer players.
Back to why I was posting lol...
Obviously we can all agree that plants have better healing than zombies, and let's be real here, doesn't that actually make sense? How many zombie medics have you ever seen on any zombie flick?
Zombies in my opinion, have the advantage of early game overwhelming, and the healing is not the only, but a big reason why plants can sometimes get through the early onslaught.
Most my zombie decks are win before round 10 or I'm in trouble. More often than not, without being a braggadocio, a couple of my decks I win consistently by round 5 or 6.
As much as I hate it, I believe that the goatify special of Rose, that works on literally any zombie, is that way for the reason I mentioned above, zombie horde can be crazy and sometimes it doesn't work, but more often than not you are stressing out the plant hero until they can get something to stay in play.
I will say that I find the game alot more interesting now that plants and zombies are both strong in early game and the long game, depending on your hero and your deck, but that in itself did a big part to even things out(I'm beginning to see "balance" as a four letter word..)
And I have to say for the healing issue, I have had too many times to track in games, instances where I have won the game or on the brink, and have not even had a mark on my block meter and of course, still at 20. Plants not having frenzy is a big reason why zombies don't really need an abundance of healing. In fact, more often than not when playing my nurse gargs now, unless they can get rid of it immediately, many just concede. Buff to 7/7 was a big move, and when I have 4 warlords in that deck....10/10 or more nurse is a mojo killer for sure. Just saying - Actually, I wasnt upset. I thought it was amazing! That's a perfect execution! But to me, that's what people don't realize, you can either learn from those, or you can cry OP. But both sides have crazy decks... Some players just can't admit that
I know we kind of got sidetracked on the Zombies having limited healing, but honestly, that doesn't bother me as much as the fact that Plants can actually combo off of healing. I don't want Zombies to have that; I want Plants not to have that. Healing is already incredibly powerful; comboing just makes it broken.
usually healing in TCG/CCG is pretty [removed by CM] actually. it only becomes viable in stupidly efficient amounts. *astrovera*
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