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stukapooka's avatar
4 years ago

Why i don't like the cooldown system in ops.

Why the cooldown system holds back ops and its strategies.

Bfn introduced a cooldown system for spawnables and this affects their usefulness in ops serverly.

In both gw games spamming one type of pot is not a good strategy as all of them posses a weakness that synergy makes up for such as fume shrooms amazing power at destroying armor but utterly awful combat potential at dealing with non armored zombies or scaredy shroom being great at picking off individuals but terrible at dealing with mass numbers.

However you can still plant mutliple of one pot in areas where they may be most effective such as multiple gloom shrooms around the garden.

In bfn however everytime you plant a pot that isn't a pea cannon is placed on a timer going from 2-5 minutes. This only cripples a player as they lack the armor breaking power of a fume shroom in each major area to combat the massive flow of armored zombies as they can only plant in eight locations, one of which in most maps is far away from the range of usefuleness for certain pots or are where zombies can spawn (colossal fossil), these are clearly intended to be heal flower spots if they are far away from action however they are often limiting how much a ranged pot can do in that location. You are placing a unit you will not even have to use most of the time if it is a healer and can't be of much help to you if its a high damage dealer like doom shroom. With only one fume shroom per player every three minutes with only eight locations you are often fighting over where to put it if you are solo as you have no idea which area the most armored zombies are going to come from unlike gw where you could plant a fumeshroom wherever you felt he would be needed alongside whatever companion you chose to give him to test whatever works best.

In ops when a pot dies there position is unavailable until the next round begins so if a Fume shroom and co die in one spot but another pairing survives you can immediately replant him on a new wave and figure out the holes in your strategy unlike mass pea cannon spam. This was already a good internal cooldown as I can't just keep putting them back the moment they fall and have to go get them after the wave ends.

Tldr: bfn doesn't give enough spawnables to plant in the cooldown system to create synergetic strategies and place units you may need on higher difficulty waves in enough areas. Rememeber that before updates even pea cannon was on a two minute cooldown and you have two wait a lengthy amount of time for some spawnables in game so even if you plant on wave 1 it may be wave 5 before you see them again where we only have eight of them total for each side.

6 Replies

  • I'm sort of on the fence with this one, although I have reasons for this. I believe that the summonable cooldown in Battle for Neighborville is something I have gotten used to, however there are a couple of factors affecting this. I have not really noticed how problematic the cooldown system was in Garden and Graveyard Ops, although overall I suppose I have not thought much of it. I have not played much Ops lately, I would have preferred if we had phase 3 of Ops. Since the summonables in BFN do not perform as well as they did compared to other shooters, being limited to how often you can place specific summonables can be a problem. I have not really noticed any issues with these cooldowns as I mostly do Turf Takeover, but again have not played Ops in a while so it really is hard for me to say. 

    Supposedly, a method for counteracting this cooldown system in Ops, and while it is really ineffective, is to wait until close to the end of a round, leave an enemy alive that will not be any sort of significant threat, and then to wait for the cooldowns of the desired summonables to end, and then to place them again at the end of the round. However, this is really ineffective, as it wastes time, can be difficult to pull off properly as you need to leave an enemy, and I'll put it this way: I would never even actually do this as there is not much point.

    I would not know what results would be produced from removing the cooldowns of all summonables in Ops, the only cooldown is not being able to place something else in a Pot or Bot once that Pot or Bot has been vanquished at the end of a round. That said, Pea Cannons and Rocket Bots can be spammed, but they will not perform very effectively, I would not imagine? At least if multiple players are communicating, each player can use their Pot and Bots wisely, therefore limiting the issue with the cooldown as a whole.

    I now see why the cooldown has such a major issue against Ops, I never thought of the cooldown system as much of an issue in Turf Takeover. Hopefully if a future shooter is made, instead of a cooldown system, it would work like in the GW Ops?

  • stukapooka's avatar
    stukapooka
    Legend
    4 years ago
    @TheSprinter85 I can see the argument for it in turf a lot stronger than in ops.

    Imagine if bfn had the difficulty of gw2 ops in the later rounds, pea cannon and rocket bot would simply not be viable after the first few rounds and you would never have enough fume shrooms to wittle down the amount of armored zombies the game throws at you so you would probably see the issue a lot more.
  • Iron_Guard8's avatar
    Iron_Guard8
    Legend
    4 years ago

    I feel the BfN timer system was designed to deal with a common problem in GW and GW2; the plethora of more powerful spawnables that those of us with hundreds, or even thousands of hours can use virtually at will. While stuff like coffin zombies and porcelain vase weeds aren't that difficult to deal with on their own or mixed in with weaker ones, when summoned en masse and when teamed with players as well, it can be a bit annoying and the difference between teams with mostly new folks and those with veterans are huge; especially when those veterans use stuff like DJ Uplink and other powerful AI exclusively, or at least in large amounts, while newer folks or those that don't play as often rely on the lower level stuff like regular brown coats and terracotta weeds. Instead of those with the most cash (especially since you can also buy coins in GW and GW2), they wanted to level the play field more, so I'm not 100% against the timers, but between placement, the AI that shoot as their main attack, poor accuracy, and lack of variety hamstrings the timer idea.

    It is worse in Ops than TT in BfN, and it makes the lack of variety in spawnables painfully obvious. We've all lost pots/bots in GW and GW2, but they usually take out at least a couple enemy AI (or heal us a lot if the right kind and placed back from the main fighting, like that spot behind the map table on Lunar Landing). They aren't useless in BfN, but they are seriously lacking, and being stuck with just the basic one to summon after the others are all taken out is not great.

  • stukapooka's avatar
    stukapooka
    Legend
    4 years ago
    @Iron_Guard8 I understand people who want it in turf which is why I'm behind the coin suggestions for a new game.

    I'm ticked about it un ops because of the lack of ideas for strategy as if I place a hide n shoot bot somewhere in bfn i lose the opportunity to place it in another spot where it can also be useful, like in zen peak a where the 2nd pot in three areas is farther back than the first one like on the right side behind the gong where it can also shoot into the garden. If I place a breaker bot on the left side in bfn than I lose all potential of saving my right side from armoured weeds.
  • Iron_Guard8's avatar
    Iron_Guard8
    Legend
    4 years ago

    @stukapookaHonestly, they could keep the timers if they changed a few things, including fixing pot/bot effectiveness, but also something where the weaker spawnables, of any kind, not just bots and pots, could charge up more; say you could only 1 or 2 charges of the Porto-potty zombies, but could hold 5 of the terracotta weeds. Scardey Shrooms and Hide and shoot bots would likely end up with at least 2 charges that way. In a team of 4, you'd have a lot more options over what gets placed that way too; as it's common in Ops to run out of all/most of your pots/bots often, and are left placing the infinite ones just to have some defenses left.

    Maybe Ops phase 3 could have addressed this with the planned extra currency (not that we need more different currencies in BfN really), but what we have for Ops, like much of BfN, feels incomplete. 

  • stukapooka's avatar
    stukapooka
    Legend
    4 years ago
    @Iron_Guard8 I feel like they should just remove cooldowns in ops as its a pve mode but either go with the coin or charge system for PvP modes.

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