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GammaX6's avatar
GammaX6
7 years ago

Would a Friendly Radar Be a Good Idea?

Imagine yourself holding a shield as Citron while having a Sunflower heal you during that. Inside your mind, you assume that the Sunflower would be there for you when you need her. So you activate your laser beam to start erasing enemies. You start receiving damage, and your Sunflower isn't healing you at all with no one is there to cover for you as well. You find out that nobody was behind you anymore and you just die in the process. After all, the Sunflower was on her way to heal others and she wasn't there for you only. Deep in your mind, you're probably cursing the Sunflower for not sticking around. But she was just doing her job by healing others.

There are many times when it becomes difficult to understand or predict how other players would move. And there are times when you just wonder "where are my teammates?!". Every player has their own agenda. Some want to flank, others don't care about the objective at all. And some are lost sheep who don't even need to be Goatified.

Now, let's imagine a friendly radar being there to show you where your teammates are.

But before that, let's dive into what the radar is:

  • It could be placed top left. While replacing allies HPs and info to bottom left. (This is only shown if you're playing in a party in case you were wondering.)
  • It would show you all of your allies directions on radar without map. (Or with a map, since it might be helpful to determine where your allies stand, height-wise)
  • All of your friends and party members will have their green colors displayed there. So you know where they are even if they were behind you or respawning.
  • Marked allies would also have special colors to know how to play around them. [Check the link to understand what I'm talking about]
  • Vanquished allies behind you would also appear on the radar.

How would that benefit you:

  • It would increase your awareness of the battlefield. By having a bigger picture of how others are positioning themselves, you know when to push the payload or if the flank sides are protected by allies or not. This would alleviate the amount of frustration you get while playing the game.
  • As a healer, you can see who got vanquished behind you. And that would assist you in reviving them. As a non-healer, you would be prepared to counter a possible sneaking flanker from behind, rather than be surprised and die all of sudden.
  • Play around friends and marked players without having to look backwards and make yourself vulnerable.
  • Understanding how the enemies are approaching objectives by seeing who gets vanquished and where they are.
  • It would educate new players not to go alone and stick to teammates instead.
  • The radar would be better than Chevrons only (the blue marks you see on your view) because they lack "depth". You don't know how close or far certain teammates are exactly and you have no awareness of what's behind you.

The radar would allow for more "strategic" game play. Rather than just "going in and figure it out later". It would help the team understand the importance of positioning and how to play around other players rather than pushing alone thinking that this game is all about "solo-carry". You need your teammates no matter how good you are since this is a team-based shooter. And playing certain roles cannot guarantee you winning every 1v1. Sticking to players who can counter your "nemesis" would allow you to continue playing your role rather the continuously switching just to counter that hero.

Now let's go back to first scenario I depicted but with radar in play. You're playing Citron, and you've got the Sunflower marked , you see where she is even behind you. Knowing that she is no longer behind you by looking at the radar, you decide not to use your laser beam. But instead, you follow her to cover for her trying to revive a fallen teammate. Then, you decide to use your laser beam to take down enemies knowing that the Sunflower got you covered. This way, you would understand why the Sunflower went away without having to be frustrated like the first example.

I understand that some players might be against it, but if players can communicate through voice-chat and tell that information to other players, then what difference would it make if all players had knowledge of what's around them? (such as vanquished players behind) It should make the experience closer to being equal for all sides, the ones who communicate and the ones who don't. 

Thank you for reading...

EDIT: Format

15 Replies

  • AjoBoB's avatar
    AjoBoB
    7 years ago

    Titally agree, bfn is more team play than the pvzs before. So radar is a must-have.

  • ToastedSarnie's avatar
    ToastedSarnie
    7 years ago
    @GammaX6 I think it's a clever idea if you're in a highly skilled lobby, with players you know you can rely on to use their characters strategically for the team, but I'm not sure about it as standard, sorry!
    As you say, players often have their own agenda & you can't sadly assume that all sunflowers will heal, or all citrons to act protectively of team-mates etc if you go to them. Some players struggle with understanding the role of the character or game strategy anyway.
    And as someone who has played heals for years, I sometimes find players so demanding that I turn off game chat - I'm constantly running around healing & reviving, yet will STILL have people shooting me for attention, screaming "I need heals" when they've got their health at 90%, "Res me!" when their body is surrounded by mechs or yelling that I should be sticking by one player's side because they're "better than the rest of the team" 😖 So being even more clearly highlighted could simply increase pressure, particularly on less skilled players.
    Or you could find even more people not going for the objective because they can see that there's no back-up, instead of taking a chance when it's the only option time-wise.
    As I said it could be a good feature, but I think it would have to be optional & ideally you only highlight players you know will play in the skilled way you'd want/expect them to, or perhaps have a system where you choose if you're happy to be highlighted 😊
  • GammaX6's avatar
    GammaX6
    7 years ago

    @ToastedSarnie  I understand your concern. But still, if I highlighted you, it would mean that I know that you would "most likely" heal me if I played around you. If you have game-chat turned off, there is nothing to worry about lol. Them highlighting you won't show up for you, unless you choose to see who's highlighting you. They would just stick around you or even protect you. Others highlighting you and not getting what they're expecting is their problem, not yours.

    On the other hand, you, as a healer, have the power to highlight the most effective players vanquish-wise or objective wise. Yes, I know, you want to heal everyone. But in my opinion, the most effective way to win is to focus on the players that have the best output. If I played a healer, I'd want to stick to the best as I know they might shield me and vanquish for me. Other less-skilled players who die often can highlight and stay near me so that I can heal them or revive them. There is no obligation or pressure in it. It's up to them. Maybe they highlighted the wrong Sunflower lol. They can highlight another if they wanted or just cancel it. 

    Or you can highlight other Sunflowers and revive each other when necessary. 

    You haven't played Overwatch, have you? "I need healing" is the worst thing you'd ever hear. You'd wish there was a radar in that game that would show where you are to them. Since most of the players are so far away from you when they demand that. It's their problem that they're too far away, it's not yours. Even if that scenario was in PvZBFN.

  • ToastedSarnie's avatar
    ToastedSarnie
    7 years ago
    @GammaX6 😂 No, I haven't played Overwatch & happy to stay that way!! I personally would have no problem with being or seeing the team highlighted. I'm not great with every character but I know I'm a good healer, and yes, while I do try to heal everyone, I do always keep my eye on & prioritise the more skilled or strategically placed players.
    I really like the idea in general, my worry is more about the kind of lobbies where you have a mix of skilled adults & perhaps young players who haven't the first idea about strategy. If every team-mate is highlighted but not all of them play in the way you'd expect either through lack of experience or having a less team-oriented approach to the game, then placing your reliance on them will be just as frustrating!
    If your idea is more about people choosing which key players to highlight, then yes, I'd be fine with it 👍
  • GammaX6's avatar
    GammaX6
    7 years ago

    @ToastedSarnie So, this happened to me lately.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTeVU5mLm78&feature=youtu.be

    Imagine how things would have been if that Citron knew I was close by, marked on his radar. It would have saved me all the hassle of chasing him down for the healing.

    This happens sometimes, others unaware of where you are so they go running all around. I see the marking and highlighting a mutually beneficial thing rather than being a burden to one part and not the other.

    There are other things I came across while playing Turf Takeover. Not all Sunflowers/Scientists are great at healing. Sometimes I pass by some of them while being injured and they never notice me. It would be great if I can mark the better ones that care about others' welfare.

    Also, whenever I play Nightcap, I wish I could know where Sunflowers are on a radar to get my overheal fix and harass enemies safer. lol

    @spIash_damage Thanks lol

  • ToastedSarnie's avatar
    ToastedSarnie
    7 years ago
    @GammaX6 Argh, don't pick on me! 😂 And ugh, Colossal Fossil is THE worst map!!
    Maybe I didn't word my replies to your idea very well. I liked / like your idea of tagging players you know are good / helpful.
    The problem I had was with the idea that EVERY team member was automatically highlighted whenever you went into a game, and this was really particularly in relation to TT.
    I thought / think the idea of relying on players you DON'T know could lead to frustration. If you saw a citron in a good position in turf & went to join them, assuming they would defend you & they didn't for example. Or if you had several healers, made the decision to go to one for help over the others & they were only interested in getting kills or healing their friend, or were just not very good through lack of experience.
    Ops is slightly different as there are only a few players, but even then, you can't guarantee players will behave in the way you expect them to. I had a game yesterday where there were 2 healers. On very low health, I raced to the one I could see. They completely ignored me & carried on overhealing what from the gamertags looked like being their husband, despite me using "Need healing", "Help!" & every other tactic I could think of!! I died!
    I guess a way of using your idea & getting round my issue, would be if the radar showed everyone, but if there was a different coloured highlight for players you permanently tagged yourself as good / helpful, so you knew you could trust them in tricky situations???
    The idea of having a way of highlighting players you can rely on, in the same kind of way you'd see a friend, I'd actually love, it's the idea of using radar to trust all players I have a concern over . . . .
  • GammaX6's avatar
    GammaX6
    7 years ago

    @ToastedSarnie The highlight and the radar ideas differ from one another.

    The highlight idea is basically you going to the scoreboard and picking the allies you want to keep track of. Those allies could be healers, Citrons, or Acorns/Space Cadets. Or perhaps you want to highlight the top players to stick around them or heal them. Highlighted players will have a special color and maybe it would be a good idea if you could see their HPs on the left side of the screen as if they were in your party. The highlighted member doesn't have to know you highlighted them. If I picked you and I was disappointed in your healing, then that's on me. Not all players behave the way I expect them to be, and that's why choosing your allies freely could be a good idea. 

    I say all that because I experimented healing the top players and reviving them all the time. And it worked great. Our team pushed hard since those players had good aim and smart decisions. Not that I wouldn't heal other players. But it just reduces the amount of frustration you get when you heal someone who doesn't aim well or keeps dying again and again. 

    The radar idea would show all allies on a small map/radar regardless of you highlighting them or not. This is to help you think strategically and understand who's around you and which sides are protected or left open. Sometimes backing off and retreating is better than just pushing alone (I see many people do that, going alone and everything). Have you ever wondered "Where are my teammates at?" It happens to me sometimes when I attack/defend objectives and see no one caring about it.

    This game is more "strategy" than shooting. At least, I see it that way. I can read a game's flow based on my teammates’ positions/vanquishes/classes. If my allies don't care about protecting or even attacking the sides in certain maps, then we can get overwhelmed and lose the objective for example. That's why I started playing Nightcap more recently when attacking, to overwhelm the enemies. And try shooting them from the back or sides (distract them and scatter their attention to front). A radar would be a great aid to grasp the bigger pictures of things.

    The maps in BFN had changed significantly compared to GW1/GW2. There are more flank routes, higher grounds, and advantageous spots where you can be more effective. Not all GW1/GW2 were designed that way. And I think that's why some players struggle with this game. It requires more map awareness. In GW1/GW2, there was a teleporter for attacking and defenders usually spawned close to the objective. So you could go back to action faster than BFN. That eliminated the need to go through all the map with its various routes and go straight to the objective. If you died in BFN, you are severely punished as you have to sprint all the way back to the objective (in some maps).

    Sorry for the long post lol

    I just wanted to share my experiences.

  • ToastedSarnie's avatar
    ToastedSarnie
    7 years ago
    @GammaX6 Haha! Don't worry, mine are nearly always long as well!!
    I completely understand what you mean and do actually agree with you that it would be incredibly useful - there's really just one tiny element that stops me agreeing 100% with you.
    That element is the very, very small amount of players who are . . . let's call them aggressive. The ones who expect all players to behave in a way that benefits & suits THEM. The ones that will go in chat or message abusively if they feel things aren't going their way, without stopping to think (or care) about how old or experienced the player is. My own personal experiences with a few of these, where I've been given grief (understated!) for everything from killing people too much, not killing enough people, not being able to revive 6 people at once, or "costing" someone their 50 streak because I should've been pocket-healing THEM rather than looking after the rest of the team actually at one point was so bad, I started a different profile & maxed GW2 all over again. And I'm an adult better able to cope with that kind of thing, not a nice, naive 7-year-old. You & I (& most players) would think it was on us for trusting them (in the same way we'd probably blame ourselves for get it wrong if someone got away from us on low health!) but a few wouldn't.
    But me not being 100% sure of radar, is down to me & my experiences, rather than me thinking it's a bad idea. I think you always have great ideas, I wish I had your analytical knowledge & think you sound like exactly the kind of player I'd highlight - if we were only on the same platform!! 😪👍
  • dwooten77's avatar
    dwooten77
    7 years ago

    No way man.  If I have a radar then I can’t blame my team for everything.  And the one day I’ll realize the truth.  I don’t know if I can handle that.  Honestly though it’s a really good idea.  

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