Easy counter to phoneix squad

"Woodroward;970047" wrote:

"Kyno;969977" wrote:

"Woodroward;969699" wrote:

"Kyno;969678" wrote:
SA gets a 20% tm boost from zaul lead...all mods being equal, SA wins.

The importance of kanan also lies in the tenacity up for a target toon, he will cleanse himself, but leave everyone else open to many buffs.

Many of a zaul teams built in abilities break up or cancel out a lot of the uniques provided by the leader ability.

Many of the built in abilities in a zaul team counter the phoenix synergy, and phoenix team don't really bring in any of the current solutions to a zaul team, just on paper I know but that's all we have right now. I am hopeful we will see something, but not too much.

No, there is no automatic tm boost from zaul lead. He gives 20% tm on being crit or evading. It's a conditional bonus that depends upon that particular sith being attacked, AND another condition being met. All mods being equal, Chopper always wins.

Daze on 4/5 toons is irrelevant if you are forced to attack one that isn't dazed and will counter you.
Same with healing immunity. Put it on everyone. Does nothing if you can't attack them. Many of the debuffs in a Zaul team are great at countering Phoenix uniques INDIVIDUALLY, but not their synergy as a group.

As stated above, you are incorrect. Sith get all bonuses at the start of a battle also, just an fyi for you.

Most sith teams have 4/5 aoe attacks, and with daze on them you will not get a group counter, which is the danger of an aoe against a counter team.

Nihilus removes buffs on his basic, or the simple sub of b2 and no more taunt. Remove 1 toon weaken the whole team.

There is no team cleanser so most debuffs will run their course, this is a dangerous move for a non tanky team.

I am looking at the team as a whole, you should look at how effective debuffs can be to each of the uniques that they will have, and unlike any other team synergy, kill the toon weaken the team as a whole, not just remove the threat.

The current counters involve, whole team cleansing, tenacity up, and tm gain.

If you involve gk, then also crit immunity.

Good additions buff immunity.

The only ones brought to the fight by this full team is single cleanse and 2 tenacity up. Tm gain only on specials.

Specials being tied up by nihilus negates a few of these right off the bat.

Yeah I actually acknowledged that already but it became a post waiting to be approved.

If Sith Assasin goes before Chopper then it won't be a tough match for the Sith. If he doesn't The Maul team will not have an easy victory.

You are indeed not considering the group synergies. In a team that has health and protection regeneration, not dealing with debuffs is A-OK, so a group cleanse is unneeded. Counter attack isn't the only thing dangerous about the phoenix team. The health and protection regeneration actually will make them quite tanky, which is exactly what you yourself have just said is needed to deal with AoE with no cleanser.

Thank you for proving my point for me. Without Sith Assassin (who was not included in this scenario to begin with), it will be a close call and a tough match. Thank you for playing.

The TM gain on specials is alright. The Counter attack makes you want to shy away from them. The real power of this group is the dual taunts and the Health/protection regen.

AoE is inconsistent enough damage that even stopping those for a short period of time is irrelevant. The regeneration will overpower the damage from the AoE. Even if they get dazed, AoE doesn't mean anything to this group.

Most teams that I encounter that run zaul also have SA for the speed boost, and if not it's still a struggle for you to put about 120 speed on chopper to get that taunt off, that's about what you would need to get faster then a 100 speed mod ed sid. Palp is pretty fast too, depends on the team someone is making. Ok maybe you can't go first without sa, at least with a toon that matters, but AOEs after that don't really care if someone is taunting.

Dots, HI, shock, 2 of the 4 of those directly counter uniques present and enough dots makes it a wash. Not dealing with debuffs against a zaul team is a good way to not win.

Daze removes half the leader ability by not allowing tm gain too.

Shock stops taunts too, so after the aoe, a focused attack with debuffs on a toon make these uniques start to fall apart. On paper that is, I hope I'm wrong but it's just not looking as solid as it did when I saw that leader ability.

Edit, thought palp was faster