"Forums filled with Group Think", to my dismay and wonder, "where have all the original posts gone?"

"ImYourHuckleberry;578680" wrote:
No one is infallible except God. And unless you're God, you need to come with facts and figures. But remember, figures lie, and liars figure.

As for dissent, feel free, it's your choice. I'm from USA, where people are allowed to express their ideas. But I don't buy it, that the game is as bad as the group thinkers say who dismiss entirely a fun game. At the core of the idea that this is a terrible game is the spirit of entitlement. Deep down, those complaining are trying to manipulate the outcome to their benefit at the expense of others. To heck with my neighbor, I want to win and I want to win now. If it weren't for this desire to win, the complaints have nothing to stand on, but would instead readily accept SWGOH for what it is, a phone game that's fun to play and pass the time. But as I said, and the only thing I said, is if you're unhappy with your entertainment, that's on you, not the devs or EA/CG. Once you see that, Then you'll be happy. You see, at the core, I am concerned for the well-being of my complaining gamers.

Sooo, about the whole god thing. Not useful in any argument except theology, as differing belief systems will cause more conflict and detract from the original topic.

Anyway, you have a point about the selfish complaints, as those definitely exist, and are quite visible. However, those complaints come from both F2P and P2W. The payment model of the game is designed around competition. They want P2W players to feel enticed to spend, so they can "win" the game; and they want F2P players to feel enticed to spend in order to keep up. So naturally there are going to be conflicts between both sides, especially in forum complaints/requests.

F2P generally want to remain competitive, and P2W generally want to maintain a substantial advantage for their money spent. Both sides have reasonable arguments and legitimacy to complain. Freemium games aren't designed to truly be fun and competitive, they are basically digital casinos that look like games. They use the "competition" to drive sales and pit players against each other, rather than recognizing the common opponent.

At the core, I am concerned for all gamers, as Freemium modeling games take massive advantage of people with certain psychological mindsets, and it becomes an abusive relationship.

"ImYourHuckleberry;578728" wrote:

"Larfleeze;578695" wrote:
See, to me your OP wasn't about the game, it was a direct criticism of the community calling a large part zombies. That is my issue, everyone's enjoyment of this game is their own. I have my problems with it, but not so many as of yet to make me stop playing. But when you start attacking the community for expressing their opinion and dismissing it as groupthink, that I have an issue with. I do see people on both sides of the issue attacking those with opposing views rather then try to have a reasoned discussion. However, you making a post claiming one side, and it appears you think it only happens on one side, is very biased and not original as you yourself complain about. You also choose to dismiss on whole all the complaints and say the Devs should do as they wish. That, followed by the "Stop complaining," leads me to believe your a victim of groupthink.

Feel free to dissent/complain. I rather like 'dissent' better than complaining as it sounds sexier. I am speaking out, because I do not agree at all with the commonly accepted idea that the game is dying for God's sake, or is a terrible game. Come on. It's a great game, that I enjoy very much. But where you and I differ is the mentaility. Losing is the end of the world for you, and you have to win at all costs. I don't have this mentality. Losing while progressing can still be fun, because in the end I am playing a game I enjoy. I wouldn't enjoy losing everytime, but I don't expect to win too. That is at the very heart of this discussion. All complaints would simply dissappear if people took my attitude about winning. Period.

EDIT: Spelling.

I would very much appreciate you not to assume what my mentality is. I don't expect to win gw every day and don't. I don't expect to be #1 in arena, and I'm not. Neither of these things are problems I have with the game. Would I like if I completed gw everyday and got #1 in arena, well yes. But I don't spend or put as much effort as those in higher arena spots do, so I'm not in a higher spot.

I would like to point out that I haven't complained about the game in this thread but instead have focused on your comments and why I think they are wrong. You then choose to come back and say losing is the end of the world to me in a video game? I'm assuming you meant that as an insult and I take it as such because while I get annoyed at not succeeding, I learn from my experience and press on.

So again, please don't assume my motives or mentality because you don't know me at all. If your choice to try and put me in an unfavorable light in your mind is your only defense to what I had to say, then I think that is likely the end of our discussion.

"WhiteSavage;578717" wrote:
@ImYourHuckleberry you are not using the term "groupthink" correctly. Nobody here is saying things just to agree with anyone else. What you ARE doing is referred to as a logical fallacy, specifically strawman. Telling us what you THINK our motives and arguments are...

And whether you consider your OP a complaint or not, many here consider it a complaint thread. Telling you to stop complaining does not make me part of "groupthink"

groupthink

noun
1.
the practice of approaching problems or issues as matters that are best dealt with by consensus of a group rather than by individuals acting independently; conformity.
2.
the lack of individual creativity, or of a sense of personal responsibility, that is sometimes characteristic of group interaction.

This is how I intended to use the term group think. And I say it, because it seems every complaint post says the same exact thing as if taken from talking points, with the goal of making changes to a game that changes I disagree with, even if I am alone in my dissent of the group.

Ok, let me try ...

OP is insinuating that some people that complain on the forum are simply complaining due to other complaining, like mob mentality. While it may be true, OP has no actual proof of that.

They try to minimize conflict amongst eachother and reach a consensus that everybody dislikes ea/cg and the game, nobody should spend etc.

That's actually a strawman ... the 'complainers' target is EA, not other 'like' gamers. That's actually majority of negative posts. Granted there are a few advocating others to leave the game, etc - but a recommendation on an act is still not groupthink, you can consider it a form of protest.

Let's say there are three groups here:
1. EA/CG ... dev's, community managers, etc.
2. Gamers unhappy with current situations
3. Gamers happy with current situation.

Between groups 1 and 2 in many cases there is an actual financial contract, since there was a financial transaction going on. Having group 2 complain about group 1, even if some perceive it to be unjustified, is perfectly normal (Better business bureau, yelp / amazon reviews, etc). Also keep in mind that in many cases CG/EA support has specifically directed those seeking help to the forums.

Group 3 (which includes OP), attacking group 2, is a classic definition of groupthink - attempt to suppress dissenting viewpoint.
Also, if you believe the statements encouraging to stop spending is groupthink, what would you call - 'if you're unhappy just quit', that you just posted - how are the too different?

And by the way, 'rationale' of moderators is not necessarily known. I got a written warning when I wrote in a post 'Dooku p****** everyone off' ...

If you want to call it anything - mob mentality is probably closer - both both groups 2 and 3 are guilty of it, including you and OP.

"leef;578670" wrote:

"Lianara;578596" wrote:

"leef;578592" wrote:

"Lianara;578581" wrote:
Just because multiple people come to the same conclusion does not make it groupthink.
Groupthink is a term defining when people make excuses and forgive faults in order to belong to a group (political, religious, cultist, fraternity, gamer, etc).
In fact OP is actually a form of groupthink ...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink

please elaborate on that last fact ?

It's about making excuses as many have done by trying to attack complainers. That is what groupthink is, it's not about complaining at all. Read the wiki link defining what it is.

Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome. Group members try to minimize conflict and reach a consensus decision without critical evaluation of alternative viewpoints by actively suppressing dissenting viewpoints, and by isolating themselves from outside influences.

I can read the wiki link, i would love to see you explain why you think the OP is a example of groupthink. Simply saying "its not about complaining at all. Read the wiki link" is far from an explaination.

The group the OP was talking about is obviously the forum community. The harmony or conformity is that the rather large mayority of the forum users feel the same way. They try to minimize conflict amongst eachother and reach a consensus that everybody dislikes ea/cg and the game, nobody should spend etc. To anyone who disagrees and actually likes the game they just repeat everything that is wrong with it over and over and over. Some excuses are used alot to convince themselves they are a 100% correct in their observations and oppinions.
With a little bit of rational thinking you can easely see why the moderators remove some threads, yet some people act like its a crime against humanity that the moderators dare to remove their threads and silence them! It's allmost like they feel oppressed by ea/cg/moderators. Why would ea/cg allow people to discourage THEIR costumers to buy THEIR product, on THEIR own forum?
Doesnt it make alot more sence to just quit the game you arent enjoying anymore than feeling oppressed by something you actually choose to be a part of ? Or do they actually like the game, but just conform to the popular consensus and start activily complaining to fit in ?

i dont fully support what i wrote, but it fits "groupmind" much better than the OP.

"Larfleeze;578747" wrote:

"ImYourHuckleberry;578728" wrote:

"Larfleeze;578695" wrote:
See, to me your OP wasn't about the game, it was a direct criticism of the community calling a large part zombies. That is my issue, everyone's enjoyment of this game is their own. I have my problems with it, but not so many as of yet to make me stop playing. But when you start attacking the community for expressing their opinion and dismissing it as groupthink, that I have an issue with. I do see people on both sides of the issue attacking those with opposing views rather then try to have a reasoned discussion. However, you making a post claiming one side, and it appears you think it only happens on one side, is very biased and not original as you yourself complain about. You also choose to dismiss on whole all the complaints and say the Devs should do as they wish. That, followed by the "Stop complaining," leads me to believe your a victim of groupthink.

Feel free to dissent/complain. I rather like 'dissent' better than complaining as it sounds sexier. I am speaking out, because I do not agree at all with the commonly accepted idea that the game is dying for God's sake, or is a terrible game. Come on. It's a great game, that I enjoy very much. But where you and I differ is the mentaility. Losing is the end of the world for you, and you have to win at all costs. I don't have this mentality. Losing while progressing can still be fun, because in the end I am playing a game I enjoy. I wouldn't enjoy losing everytime, but I don't expect to win too. That is at the very heart of this discussion. All complaints would simply dissappear if people took my attitude about winning. Period.

EDIT: Spelling.

I would very much appreciate you not to assume what my mentality is. I don't expect to win gw every day and don't. I don't expect to be #1 in arena, and I'm not. Neither of these things are problems I have with the game. Would I like if I completed gw everyday and got #1 in arena, well yes. But I don't spend or put as much effort as those in higher arena spots do, so I'm not in a higher spot.

I would like to point out that I haven't complained about the game in this thread but instead have focused on your comments and why I think they are wrong. You then choose to come back and say losing is the end of the world to me in a video game? I'm assuming you meant that as an insult and I take it as such because while I get annoyed at not succeeding, I learn from my experience and press on.

So again, please don't assume my motives or mentality because you don't know me at all. If your choice to try and put me in an unfavorable light in your mind is your only defense to what I had to say, then I think that is likely the end of our discussion.

Nah, I see you are arguing for arguments sake. If you are not complaining, then my comments are not directed towards you.

"ImYourHuckleberry;578754" wrote:


This is how I intended to use the term group think. And I say it, because it seems every complaint post says the same exact thing as if taken from talking points, with the goal of making changes to a game that changes I disagree with, even if I am alone in my dissent of the group.

So each issue is allowed to only have one poster claiming it as a problem? If 10 people have a problem with a particular car's steering wheel, and all complain - you would call it groupthink too?
In order to get any idea on how people are influenced, you need to know if the person complained because they independently arrived to the same conclusion, or they only followed others. You cannot possibly know that.

"Pokebreaker;578746" wrote:

"ImYourHuckleberry;578680" wrote:
No one is infallible except God. And unless you're God, you need to come with facts and figures. But remember, figures lie, and liars figure.

As for dissent, feel free, it's your choice. I'm from USA, where people are allowed to express their ideas. But I don't buy it, that the game is as bad as the group thinkers say who dismiss entirely a fun game. At the core of the idea that this is a terrible game is the spirit of entitlement. Deep down, those complaining are trying to manipulate the outcome to their benefit at the expense of others. To heck with my neighbor, I want to win and I want to win now. If it weren't for this desire to win, the complaints have nothing to stand on, but would instead readily accept SWGOH for what it is, a phone game that's fun to play and pass the time. But as I said, and the only thing I said, is if you're unhappy with your entertainment, that's on you, not the devs or EA/CG. Once you see that, Then you'll be happy. You see, at the core, I am concerned for the well-being of my complaining gamers.

Sooo, about the whole god thing. Not useful in any argument except theology, as differing belief systems will cause more conflict and detract from the original topic.

Anyway, you have a point about the selfish complaints, as those definitely exist, and are quite visible. However, those complaints come from both F2P and P2W. The payment model of the game is designed around competition. They want P2W players to feel enticed to spend, so they can "win" the game; and they want F2P players to feel enticed to spend in order to keep up. So naturally there are going to be conflicts between both sides, especially in forum complaints/requests.

F2P generally want to remain competitive, and P2W generally want to maintain a substantial advantage for their money spent. Both sides have reasonable arguments and legitimacy to complain. Freemium games aren't designed to truly be fun and competitive, they are basically digital casinos that look like games. They use the "competition" to drive sales and pit players against each other, rather than recognizing the common opponent.

At the core, I am concerned for all gamers, as Freemium modeling games take massive advantage of people with certain psychological mindsets, and it becomes an abusive relationship.

That's a scary thought, that I'm not going there.

"ImYourHuckleberry;578765" wrote:

"Larfleeze;578747" wrote:

"ImYourHuckleberry;578728" wrote:

"Larfleeze;578695" wrote:
See, to me your OP wasn't about the game, it was a direct criticism of the community calling a large part zombies. That is my issue, everyone's enjoyment of this game is their own. I have my problems with it, but not so many as of yet to make me stop playing. But when you start attacking the community for expressing their opinion and dismissing it as groupthink, that I have an issue with. I do see people on both sides of the issue attacking those with opposing views rather then try to have a reasoned discussion. However, you making a post claiming one side, and it appears you think it only happens on one side, is very biased and not original as you yourself complain about. You also choose to dismiss on whole all the complaints and say the Devs should do as they wish. That, followed by the "Stop complaining," leads me to believe your a victim of groupthink.

Feel free to dissent/complain. I rather like 'dissent' better than complaining as it sounds sexier. I am speaking out, because I do not agree at all with the commonly accepted idea that the game is dying for God's sake, or is a terrible game. Come on. It's a great game, that I enjoy very much. But where you and I differ is the mentaility. Losing is the end of the world for you, and you have to win at all costs. I don't have this mentality. Losing while progressing can still be fun, because in the end I am playing a game I enjoy. I wouldn't enjoy losing everytime, but I don't expect to win too. That is at the very heart of this discussion. All complaints would simply dissappear if people took my attitude about winning. Period.

EDIT: Spelling.

I would very much appreciate you not to assume what my mentality is. I don't expect to win gw every day and don't. I don't expect to be #1 in arena, and I'm not. Neither of these things are problems I have with the game. Would I like if I completed gw everyday and got #1 in arena, well yes. But I don't spend or put as much effort as those in higher arena spots do, so I'm not in a higher spot.

I would like to point out that I haven't complained about the game in this thread but instead have focused on your comments and why I think they are wrong. You then choose to come back and say losing is the end of the world to me in a video game? I'm assuming you meant that as an insult and I take it as such because while I get annoyed at not succeeding, I learn from my experience and press on.

So again, please don't assume my motives or mentality because you don't know me at all. If your choice to try and put me in an unfavorable light in your mind is your only defense to what I had to say, then I think that is likely the end of our discussion.

Nah, I see you are arguing for arguments sake. If you are not complaining, then my comments are not directed towards you.

Again, dismissal of opinion different then yours instead of trying to reasonable disagree. I'm out. Have fun in your groupthink world. Don't forget, everyone IS out to get you, it's not just in your head.

"Lianara;578769" wrote:

"ImYourHuckleberry;578754" wrote:


This is how I intended to use the term group think. And I say it, because it seems every complaint post says the same exact thing as if taken from talking points, with the goal of making changes to a game that changes I disagree with, even if I am alone in my dissent of the group.

So each issue is allowed to only have one poster claiming it as a problem? If 10 people have a problem with a particular car's steering wheel, and all complain - you would call it groupthink too?
In order to get any idea on how people are influenced, you need to know if the person complained because they independently arrived to the same conclusion, or they only followed others. You cannot possibly know that.

I know that I am not complaining. Where does that leave us then?

"Larfleeze;578775" wrote:

"ImYourHuckleberry;578765" wrote:

"Larfleeze;578747" wrote:

"ImYourHuckleberry;578728" wrote:

"Larfleeze;578695" wrote:
See, to me your OP wasn't about the game, it was a direct criticism of the community calling a large part zombies. That is my issue, everyone's enjoyment of this game is their own. I have my problems with it, but not so many as of yet to make me stop playing. But when you start attacking the community for expressing their opinion and dismissing it as groupthink, that I have an issue with. I do see people on both sides of the issue attacking those with opposing views rather then try to have a reasoned discussion. However, you making a post claiming one side, and it appears you think it only happens on one side, is very biased and not original as you yourself complain about. You also choose to dismiss on whole all the complaints and say the Devs should do as they wish. That, followed by the "Stop complaining," leads me to believe your a victim of groupthink.

Feel free to dissent/complain. I rather like 'dissent' better than complaining as it sounds sexier. I am speaking out, because I do not agree at all with the commonly accepted idea that the game is dying for God's sake, or is a terrible game. Come on. It's a great game, that I enjoy very much. But where you and I differ is the mentaility. Losing is the end of the world for you, and you have to win at all costs. I don't have this mentality. Losing while progressing can still be fun, because in the end I am playing a game I enjoy. I wouldn't enjoy losing everytime, but I don't expect to win too. That is at the very heart of this discussion. All complaints would simply dissappear if people took my attitude about winning. Period.

EDIT: Spelling.

I would very much appreciate you not to assume what my mentality is. I don't expect to win gw every day and don't. I don't expect to be #1 in arena, and I'm not. Neither of these things are problems I have with the game. Would I like if I completed gw everyday and got #1 in arena, well yes. But I don't spend or put as much effort as those in higher arena spots do, so I'm not in a higher spot.

I would like to point out that I haven't complained about the game in this thread but instead have focused on your comments and why I think they are wrong. You then choose to come back and say losing is the end of the world to me in a video game? I'm assuming you meant that as an insult and I take it as such because while I get annoyed at not succeeding, I learn from my experience and press on.

So again, please don't assume my motives or mentality because you don't know me at all. If your choice to try and put me in an unfavorable light in your mind is your only defense to what I had to say, then I think that is likely the end of our discussion.

Nah, I see you are arguing for arguments sake. If you are not complaining, then my comments are not directed towards you.

Again, dismissal of opinion different then yours instead of trying to reasonable disagree. I'm out. Have fun in your groupthink world. Don't forget, everyone IS out to get you, it's not just in your head.

It's not dismissal in my mind. I was talking about a certain mentality of gamers that can exist, and he clearly said he was not apart of that mentality, and said I was making a strawman argument against him. Nah, not the case. I have nothing against him at all, only trying to flesh out the reasons behind all the negative complaining. If he is not complaining, then I have nothing to say to him. That's all.