There is a persistent isssue with how ships function in GA. If you have a very strong fleet then you are automatically disadvantaged in GA. Because fleets account for very little of your battle scores, they become almost meaningless.I understand that a fleet only GA would be difficult due to the limited number of fleet options, but couldn’t we have a fleet top or bottom solo zone that is with double points to bring them total GA result more fair? Otherwise those of us who have focused on fleets will never win a GA that includes fleets which seems to be the opposite of what was intended for GA fleets.This is especially emphasized when an opponent can view your fleet strength during setup and decide to make getting to the fleet battle near impossible.

When your opponent has a significant advantage in squad GP and the only fleet zone is protected by a squad zone, the fact that you have a strong fleet does not compensate for your relative weakness in squads.Your opponent has the option of setting a strong front line and still attacking with good squads.

"Waqui;c-1775585" wrote:"Rath_Tarr;c-1775511" wrote:When your opponent has a significant advantage in squad GP and the only fleet zone is protected by a squad zone, the fact that you have a strong fleet does not compensate for your relative weakness in squads.Your opponent has the option of setting a strong front line and still attacking with good squads.And this is why you save more of your strong characters for offense, when you believe your defensive fleet will hold the zone.These are basically troll comments with no real insight into the problem. I suffer the same issue the OP does. I tried the weak D strategy but I still ran out of good teams so I lost but a few points. My opponent trampled my defenses getting a near perfect score. For people that have refined squad rosters, it’s virtually impossible to win when you’re 200k-300k behind them in squad power. Strategy should never be “hope I get matched up with 7 idiots that think g12 ugnaught and 60 other g8 toons constitutes a good roster.”Since Han’s falcon came out, the problem has only amplified. Now you only need 2 fleets (rebels for O and BH for D). Rebels nearly always win if you have good rebel ships and know how to use them. And BH on D is just a good fleet that allows you to get defense points. Having good geonosians or empire ships does nothing but hurt me in matchmaking because they will never be used.

Being better than them, i.e. choosing better teams for defense and better managing attacks, is what grand arena is all about.I have faced and defeated players with more character GP than I have and several more zetas and gear 12 characters. The ones that give me trouble are almost invariably the ones with higher arena ranks and ones with better mods.

“Believe it or not: My alt successfully applied this strategy in 3 battles now against opponents with much weaker ships.”Give us some details on your alt. Total GP and ship GP? How your alt only been successful 3 times out of all the GA battles? That’s not very successful. I say this is trolling because you’re quick to jump on any post like this and tell people that they suffer from bad strategy without ever getting into details. I’m telling you it’s not bad strategy...it’s unfair matches.“Well, it's a requirement, that you can clear his board, for that strategy to work.”I did...so now what is the problem with my strategy?“I don't believe, you understood the strategy, I described, because this isn't it.”I don’t believe you understand the problem that me and the OP are facing which is why your so quick to say it’s bad strategy.My opponent split his teams to leave strong D and have some strong teams on O. I put all midrange teams on D leaving only my best teams and trash toons (about 5 g8 guys) for O. I beat each of his teams except one on the first try and with a near perfect score. That last team I beat on the second try. I had to whittle his team down because I ran out of good players to crush him.I lost by 25 points. Losing by 25 under those conditions means that I needed to win that last battle on the first try, not lose anyone in the fight, and/or have a couple more toons end battles with 100% health and protection. If I literally ran out of competitive toons by this last fight then how exactly is this system fair and my strategy lacking? If 45% of my GP can translate into 25% of my total score but 30% of my opponent’s GP can translate into 25% of his score, how is this system fair?

"Stokerini;c-1775673" wrote:"Scuttlebutt;c-1775661" wrote:"Waqui;c-1775585" wrote:"Rath_Tarr;c-1775511" wrote:When your opponent has a significant advantage in squad GP and the only fleet zone is protected by a squad zone, the fact that you have a strong fleet does not compensate for your relative weakness in squads.Your opponent has the option of setting a strong front line and still attacking with good squads.And this is why you save more of your strong characters for offense, when you believe your defensive fleet will hold the zone.These are basically troll comments with no real insight into the problem. I suffer the same issue the OP does. I tried the weak D strategy but I still ran out of good teams so I lost but a few points. My opponent trampled my defenses getting a near perfect score. For people that have refined squad rosters, it’s virtually impossible to win when you’re 200k-300k behind them in squad power. Strategy should never be “hope I get matched up with 7 **** that think g12 ugnaught and 60 other g8 toons constitutes a good roster.”Since Han’s falcon came out, the problem has only amplified. Now you only need 2 fleets (rebels for O and BH for D). Rebels nearly always win if you have good rebel ships and know how to use them. And BH on D is just a good fleet that allows you to get defense points. Having good geonosians or empire ships does nothing but hurt me in matchmaking because they will never be used.Glad you can clearly see the problem. Most of the other replies have valid points with the emphasis on strategy, but it still comes down to being disadvantaged. Any opponent worth their salt can still win. Especially if the other team protects their fleet zone behind their top defense teams.I have found that a sound strategy on my part will help me win 2 out of three and I always place in the #2-4 range.I have both the current meta and the prior meta and am ended everyday at #1 in fleets. Why am I penalized in GA for this? If I have 1.1mil fleet GP and 1.6m squad GP and there is one space battle and 5 squad battles. How will I have a fair chance when almost everyone else I go against may have a 2m squad GP and 700k fleet GP? Even if I win on fleet defense and fleet offense, that is 2 out of 10 battles. Now I have 8 battles and my remaining GP is 400k less than my opponent. This can cover up to 4 g12 teams with multiple zetas on each. How is that fair?Yea I get 2 wins in every GA as well. Usually it’s the last guy with a refined roster that just stomps me. The only thing people like you and I can do (right now) is focus our fleet development to just the current meta and ignore all other ships (I’m stuck but you have a lower GP so you can get out). At the same time, just refine your squad roster for a few months until eventually your ratio of ship GP to squad GP gets closer to the competition.

GA Fleet Imbalance | EA Forums

epscoe
6 years ago
Getting back to the OP's point, I fully agree and have argued this several times. Numerically, the imbalance is obvious.

- Ship GP is 2.5-3x character GP, using Tie Advanced as an example (23k-ish toon, 60k-ish ship).
- But ships in GA are worth less than 25% of the banners that ground troops are worth, so that GP isn't pulling its weight.

And beyond all that, clearing all ground territories is worth more points than clearing two ground plus one fleet because there's only one battle there to earn banners from. Fleet investors really are at a disadvantage.
Pengin83
6 years ago
"ArthurDent;c-1776304" wrote:
Getting back to the OP's point, I fully agree and have argued this several times. Numerically, the imbalance is obvious.

- Ship GP is 2.5-3x character GP, using Tie Advanced as an example (23k-ish toon, 60k-ish ship).
- But ships in GA are worth less than 25% of the banners that ground troops are worth, so that GP isn't pulling its weight.

And beyond all that, clearing all ground territories is worth more points than clearing two ground plus one fleet because there's only one battle there to earn banners from. Fleet investors really are at a disadvantage.

Thank you! My point exactly which got lost in the other stuff. I believe I even made a similar argument early in this thread.
Pengin83
6 years ago
"Waqui;c-1776301" wrote:

Oh! So you hold some kind of personal grudge against me. I wondered why you kept going with all your nonsense. Now it all makes sense. Well, this game of yours has gone too far now. I'll leave you to your own babbling.

Nope not a grudge. I’m just good at picking up on patterns. When you first commented on my thread I thought I should try changing my strategy. When I saw You made the argument multiple times in multiple different threads, I noticed that it was a pattern and not just a problem with my strategy. This thread, I thought the OP made a good point and didn’t want to see you troll him too.
epscoe
6 years ago
I should have read more of the early comments, apparently you (Scuttlebutt) did already make the exact same point lol. There are a lot of words on page 1.
Pengin83
6 years ago
"ArthurDent;c-1776356" wrote:
I should have read more of the early comments, apparently you (Scuttlebutt) did already make the exact same point lol. There are a lot of words on page 1.

Lol great minds think alike. I’ve made a suggestion to help balance it on several threads, but maybe this isn’t the right way to suggest a fix to the problem.

The format of your post is better and easier to read.
Pengin83
6 years ago
"Waqui;c-1778231" wrote:
"Scuttlebutt;c-1778213" wrote:

Finding a strategy that works in certain situations does not mean that the disadvantage doesn’t exist.

However, it proves that having a strong fleet isn't necessarily a disadvantage, like OP claimed, and it also proves, that you can win when having a strong fleet, contrary to OP's claims. I'd prefer a strong fleet to a weak one any day.

Furthermore, I'm happy for you, that you've realised, that my suggested strategy only works on some cases (when believe your defensive fleet can survive, while you defeat the enemy's defensive fleet). That's progress. Congratulations.

You basically just restated what I said and reversed the meaning. I don’t see the point of your comment unless you just don’t understand what a disadvantage is. A disadvantage here means that the matchmaking does not yield even matchups. I know the OP used the term “a strong fleet,” but he didn’t mean a singular fleet. He meant total fleet power.

To show you what a disadvantage is, I win with my CLS squad arena against Revan teams all the time, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t have a disadvantage by playing them. I’m pretty sure everyone else in my top 200 would agree that I am at a disadvantage with this team.
stokerini
6 years ago
GA is a combination of strategy and squad/fleet strength. Either can be ignored to your detriment. I did not intend this posting to be about strategy. There are other places in the forums dedicated to that.

This was meant to talk about advantages/disadvantages in GA. I think my point has been made pretty clearly that a high relative ratio of fleet power to squad power (both with a singular fleet and in aggregate) can be a disadvantage. This is an imbalance. Skill/strategy can overcome imbalances, but it doesn’t negate the fact the imbalance exists.
Rath_Tarr0
6 years ago
"Waqui;c-1780402" wrote:
"Scuttlebutt;c-1780338" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1780263" wrote:
"Scuttlebutt;c-1780200" wrote:

You basically just restated what I said and reversed the meaning. I don’t see the point of your comment unless you just don’t understand what a disadvantage is. A disadvantage here means that the matchmaking does not yield even matchups. I know the OP used the term “a strong fleet,” but he didn’t mean a singular fleet. He meant total fleet power.

To show you what a disadvantage is, I win with my CLS squad arena against Revan teams all the time, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t have a disadvantage by playing them. I’m pretty sure everyone else in my top 200 would agree that I am at a disadvantage with this team.

However you twist and turn it, having a relatively strong fleet with significantly higher GP than my opponent's fleet was an advantage for me in my most recent GA battle. Without it, I would most likely have lost. However, I won because of my fleet (and my choice of strategy). OP's claim that without changes, players with strong fleets will never win was (and still is) wrong.

(My opponent had also won his two first rounds.)

I don’t remember the OP ever claiming that “players with strong fleets will never win.” In fact, I remember the OP stating that he typically wins some despite being at a disadvantage.

Wether you remember it or not doesn't change the fact, that the OP made that claim. Check the original post or check a previous response to you, where I quoted the relevant lines from the original post.

The OP does not claim that players with strong fleets will never win, either in his original post or in any subsequent reply.
stokerini
6 years ago
"Waqui;c-1780622" wrote:
"Stokerini;c-1780568" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1780513" wrote:
"Scuttlebutt;c-1780501" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1780455" wrote:
"Scuttlebutt;c-1780446" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1780402" wrote:
"Scuttlebutt;c-1780338" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1780263" wrote:
"Scuttlebutt;c-1780200" wrote:

You basically just restated what I said and reversed the meaning. I don’t see the point of your comment unless you just don’t understand what a disadvantage is. A disadvantage here means that the matchmaking does not yield even matchups. I know the OP used the term “a strong fleet,” but he didn’t mean a singular fleet. He meant total fleet power.

To show you what a disadvantage is, I win with my CLS squad arena against Revan teams all the time, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t have a disadvantage by playing them. I’m pretty sure everyone else in my top 200 would agree that I am at a disadvantage with this team.

However you twist and turn it, having a relatively strong fleet with significantly higher GP than my opponent's fleet was an advantage for me in my most recent GA battle. Without it, I would most likely have lost. However, I won because of my fleet (and my choice of strategy). OP's claim that without changes, players with strong fleets will never win was (and still is) wrong.

(My opponent had also won his two first rounds.)

I don’t remember the OP ever claiming that “players with strong fleets will never win.” In fact, I remember the OP stating that he typically wins some despite being at a disadvantage.

Wether you remember it or not doesn't change the fact, that the OP made that claim. Check the original post or check a previous response to you, where I quoted the relevant lines from the original post.

On my CLS example, did I really need to explicitly state that it was an example of winning despite a disadvantage (we can find many examples of that both in and out of GA). Come on, at least be reasonable if you’re going to continue this.

If your CLS team beats Revan teams all the time, how are you then at a disadvantage? To me it seems your CLS team has the advantage (on offense at least). Maybe you should reconsider how you define advantage/disadvantage.

In my case it's not winning despite a disadvantage in having a strong fleet - it's winning because I had the advantage of a strong fleet. That's my whole point. My 200k extra ships GP was an advantage - not a disadvantage as claimed.

If he said it then quote it. Otherwise, it’s kind of hard to argue your point.

Don't start that silly game of yours again. I have already qouted it in a previous comment to you. Reread it. It's quite simple, really. Furthermore, you can read it for your self in the original post, like I just wrote.

This isn’t a “silly game.” I didn’t see it in any of the previous posts, quotes, etc.

Then please reread either your own posts, my responses or the original post - whatever you prefer.

And way to avoid all of the questions I asked! Trying to redirect the thread again by selectively quoting?

I have no interest in discussing, what you asked about. My only points have already been very clear:
Very strong fleets can be an advantage and can win GAs for you.

Your point, while valid does not contradict the other points I have made. These aren’t mutually exclusive points.

I never discussed your other points. However, I disagree with your original claims that very strong fleets are automaticaly a disadvantage, and that players, who focused on fleets will never win a GA.

A strong fleet can be an advantage and a high ship to squad ratio can be a disadvantage. Both can be true.

You finally agreee. How wonderfull :-)

(I don't agree with some of your arguments, and have already commented on this, but that's a different thing)

"Waqui;c-1780619" wrote:
"Rath_Tarr;c-1780592" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1780402" wrote:
"Scuttlebutt;c-1780338" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1780263" wrote:
"Scuttlebutt;c-1780200" wrote:

You basically just restated what I said and reversed the meaning. I don’t see the point of your comment unless you just don’t understand what a disadvantage is. A disadvantage here means that the matchmaking does not yield even matchups. I know the OP used the term “a strong fleet,” but he didn’t mean a singular fleet. He meant total fleet power.

To show you what a disadvantage is, I win with my CLS squad arena against Revan teams all the time, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t have a disadvantage by playing them. I’m pretty sure everyone else in my top 200 would agree that I am at a disadvantage with this team.

However you twist and turn it, having a relatively strong fleet with significantly higher GP than my opponent's fleet was an advantage for me in my most recent GA battle. Without it, I would most likely have lost. However, I won because of my fleet (and my choice of strategy). OP's claim that without changes, players with strong fleets will never win was (and still is) wrong.

(My opponent had also won his two first rounds.)

I don’t remember the OP ever claiming that “players with strong fleets will never win.” In fact, I remember the OP stating that he typically wins some despite being at a disadvantage.

Wether you remember it or not doesn't change the fact, that the OP made that claim. Check the original post or check a previous response to you, where I quoted the relevant lines from the original post.

The OP does not claim that players with strong fleets will never win, either in his original post or in any subsequent reply.

"Stokerini;d-195418" wrote:

I understand that a fleet only GA would be difficult due to the limited number of fleet options, but couldn’t we have a fleet top or bottom solo zone that is with double points to bring them total GA result more fair? Otherwise those of us who have focused on fleets will never win a GA that includes fleets which seems to be the opposite of what was intended for GA fleets.

To be fair this seems like a rebuttal to your prior comments focusing only on strategy and ignoring the imbalance. I should have said that when going against an opponent who has a strong strategy, well made up squads, and the match-up has a fleet imbalance, you will almost never win.

It is comical that you are now saying you agreed with me all along (by saying the inverse that I now agree with you) and were just making a point on strategy also being a factor. Please keep your trolling to less blatant attempts.
Rath_Tarr0
6 years ago
"Waqui;c-1780619" wrote:
"Rath_Tarr;c-1780592" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1780402" wrote:
"Scuttlebutt;c-1780338" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1780263" wrote:
"Scuttlebutt;c-1780200" wrote:

You basically just restated what I said and reversed the meaning. I don’t see the point of your comment unless you just don’t understand what a disadvantage is. A disadvantage here means that the matchmaking does not yield even matchups. I know the OP used the term “a strong fleet,” but he didn’t mean a singular fleet. He meant total fleet power.

To show you what a disadvantage is, I win with my CLS squad arena against Revan teams all the time, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t have a disadvantage by playing them. I’m pretty sure everyone else in my top 200 would agree that I am at a disadvantage with this team.

However you twist and turn it, having a relatively strong fleet with significantly higher GP than my opponent's fleet was an advantage for me in my most recent GA battle. Without it, I would most likely have lost. However, I won because of my fleet (and my choice of strategy). OP's claim that without changes, players with strong fleets will never win was (and still is) wrong.

(My opponent had also won his two first rounds.)

I don’t remember the OP ever claiming that “players with strong fleets will never win.” In fact, I remember the OP stating that he typically wins some despite being at a disadvantage.

Wether you remember it or not doesn't change the fact, that the OP made that claim. Check the original post or check a previous response to you, where I quoted the relevant lines from the original post.

The OP does not claim that players with strong fleets will never win, either in his original post or in any subsequent reply.

"Stokerini;d-195418" wrote:

I understand that a fleet only GA would be difficult due to the limited number of fleet options, but couldn’t we have a fleet top or bottom solo zone that is with double points to bring them total GA result more fair? Otherwise those of us who have focused on fleets will never win a GA that includes fleets which seems to be the opposite of what was intended for GA fleets.

I stand corrected. Apparently my caffiene dose was ineffective this morning.

It is indeed possible to win a GA with a fleet-heavy roster. I have done so twice now. That does not however make it fair or balanced.