Greedo's Detonators blow up faster?

"Kyno;c-1537328" wrote:

"GOWLIKEABOSS;c-1537316" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1537310" wrote:

"GOWLIKEABOSS;c-1537303" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1537298" wrote:

"DarthPurgatory;c-1537240" wrote:
Agreed; the step towards a one-turn explosion was a step in the right direction but it does not need to be the last step. TDs still need more work. The percentage reduction particularly hurt their usefulness; as one of the few using a workable Bomb Squad before they were popular, it felt heavy handed to see them adopt popularity just in time to get hit with the nerf bat simply for doing what they were designed to do.

I think they are a very powerful weapon so, they have to be cautious with changes that make them more viable.

I'm hoping we will see more changes down the road as they try to keep improving them and the BH that use them.

I think they can risk being more aggressive with them. Only 3 playable characters even have them, all are bounty hunters, and only Greedo and now Dengar are good characters (Zam is ok at best).

It's not like they are changing 'ability block' or 'offense down' or some other ability that 25% of toons have.

I would argue the opposite way. If they push them too far, it could push the meta to a small restricted set. People would invest in very specific toons, then they would "have to" nerf them....that's a bad approach, IMO.

All BH are f2p. The current meta is only mostly f2p. Even if it did push the meta, it wouldn't be bad.

More importantly, I don't think most people want thermal detonators to take 50% health per detonator. But consider: deathmark takes 50% health. I use DT in my non-zeta arena team and he's fabulous. But he's not meta.

I think most people just want thermal detonators to actually work. Either be undispellable, blow up upon dispel, be irresistible, or something. As of now, bounty hunters are blocked from their full potential because you need so much potency for detonators to be even remotely reliable. My BHs all have like 80% potency from mods, and their detonators only stick about 2/3 of the time. Crazy.

Push the mega, yes, I have no issue. The concern is about focusing or restricting the meta.

I agree, they need more work, I just dont expect them do jump in with both feet. I think the 1 turn detonate is a toe in the water, but I'm not expecting them to jump in from there. So we should just keep the ideas flowing and see what road they take. I think the community has its 3 points of contention with the current system and hope they take us up on at least 1....then another.

I agree. I was too slow editing my post lol. I think this is the best blueprint:

As of now, thermal detonators are
(1) Very Hard to apply
(2) Very easy to get rid of once applied, and
(3) Don't do much damage if applied and not cleansed.

Two of these should be changed. Three is too much, one is nice but not enough. Greedo's faster detonators improved on #2 - faster explosion makes it slightly harder to cleanse. But since Chaze is still very strong and the "low-tier meta" that's no problem for Chirruit who will cleanse everyone else after his blows up.

I think the best solution would be this

(1) Cannot be resisted
(2) Explode upon dispel
(3) Same damage

They could still be evaded, and if they chose to go "cannot be resisted except by raid bosses" a-la Greedo, the rolling tenacity of the raid bosses ensures they must be applied shortly after an enemy to turn to stick.

Imo the damage is fine atm, but only if they were more reliable.

"GOWLIKEABOSS;c-1537337" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1537328" wrote:

"GOWLIKEABOSS;c-1537316" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1537310" wrote:

"GOWLIKEABOSS;c-1537303" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1537298" wrote:

"DarthPurgatory;c-1537240" wrote:
Agreed; the step towards a one-turn explosion was a step in the right direction but it does not need to be the last step. TDs still need more work. The percentage reduction particularly hurt their usefulness; as one of the few using a workable Bomb Squad before they were popular, it felt heavy handed to see them adopt popularity just in time to get hit with the nerf bat simply for doing what they were designed to do.

I think they are a very powerful weapon so, they have to be cautious with changes that make them more viable.

I'm hoping we will see more changes down the road as they try to keep improving them and the BH that use them.

I think they can risk being more aggressive with them. Only 3 playable characters even have them, all are bounty hunters, and only Greedo and now Dengar are good characters (Zam is ok at best).

It's not like they are changing 'ability block' or 'offense down' or some other ability that 25% of toons have.

I would argue the opposite way. If they push them too far, it could push the meta to a small restricted set. People would invest in very specific toons, then they would "have to" nerf them....that's a bad approach, IMO.

All BH are f2p. The current meta is only mostly f2p. Even if it did push the meta, it wouldn't be bad.

More importantly, I don't think most people want thermal detonators to take 50% health per detonator. But consider: deathmark takes 50% health. I use DT in my non-zeta arena team and he's fabulous. But he's not meta.

I think most people just want thermal detonators to actually work. Either be undispellable, blow up upon dispel, be irresistible, or something. As of now, bounty hunters are blocked from their full potential because you need so much potency for detonators to be even remotely reliable. My BHs all have like 80% potency from mods, and their detonators only stick about 2/3 of the time. Crazy.

Push the mega, yes, I have no issue. The concern is about focusing or restricting the meta.

I agree, they need more work, I just dont expect them do jump in with both feet. I think the 1 turn detonate is a toe in the water, but I'm not expecting them to jump in from there. So we should just keep the ideas flowing and see what road they take. I think the community has its 3 points of contention with the current system and hope they take us up on at least 1....then another.

I agree. I was too slow editing my post lol. I think this is the best blueprint:

As of now, thermal detonators are
(1) Very Hard to apply
(2) Very easy to get rid of once applied, and
(3) Don't do much damage if applied and not cleansed.

Two of these should be changed. Three is too much, one is nice but not enough. Greedo's faster detonators improved on #2 - faster explosion makes it slightly harder to cleanse. But since Chaze is still very strong and the "low-tier meta" that's no problem for Chirruit who will cleanse everyone else after his blows up.

I think the best solution would be this

(1) Cannot be resisted
(2) Explode upon dispel
(3) Same damage

They could still be evaded, and if they chose to go "cannot be resisted except by raid bosses" a-la Greedo, the rolling tenacity of the raid bosses ensures they must be applied shortly after an enemy to turn to stick.

Imo the damage is fine atm, but only if they were more reliable.

Agree,

I would also accept that if dispelled they did less damage, if they moved all TDs to 1 turn explode. But I dont think this would be a necessity.

Sadly, I agree with you.

But I'm still gonna be ready when the Separist rework hits... Eventually.

Nute is gonna be laughing stock no more!

"DarthPurgatory;c-1537400" wrote:
People forget about Nute, for reasons I do understand... But his bomb was always heavy hitting as well, and his splash damage was really quite useful.

I'd like to see that on all TDs, frankly. It feels like a good mechanic and it just fits with the notion of explosives. It gives the Hunters a little more AoE as well.

Maybe you can't leave it at 50/60% if you make it standard for all Detonators, but maybe you can. It's not THAT much damage even factoring in rolling Zam, and they are still limited by CDs.

I think Splash damage was before I started playing, but I like this idea as well

Jawas have dets too. And Dets feel likes ships: a cool implementation, a lot of possibility, synergies are almost there, but no follow through.

Sadly, with the amount of user generated hype over Jango... he is going to be Toon that makes unresistable, uncleansible dets. A monster of our own making. I'll be happy to repost this when they add him and two more republic era BH's (Embo, obviously, and likely Aura Sing) - he will be P2P. He's not a hero, and hype demands you need to $$ to use him early.

Semi-off subject - we haven't gotten anything fro the devs saying they worked on BH AI so they can accomplish the contract on defense, have we?

"PremierVenoth;c-1537497" wrote:
Jawas have dets too. And Dets feel likes ships: a cool implementation, a lot of possibility, synergies are almost there, but no follow through.

Sadly, with the amount of user generated hype over Jango... he is going to be Toon that makes unresistable, uncleansible dets. A monster of our own making. I'll be happy to repost this when they add him and two more republic era BH's (Embo, obviously, and likely Aura Sing) - he will be P2P. He's not a hero, and hype demands you need to $$ to use him early.

Semi-off subject - we haven't gotten anything fro the devs saying they worked on BH AI so they can accomplish the contract on defense, have we?

I had forgotten about Jawas, good point. BHs would need only their dets to be irrestible I suppose.

I'm also expecting new BH and reworks for Zam and Cad Bane when they do clone wars. Jango will likely be added to, but he won't be a hero's journey. Likely just a marquee unlock behind the same paywall as everyone else.

As for AI, one of the devs mentioned in a gamechangers video that the AI waa being tweaked to be better on defense, but they'd still be a lot better on offense. Only thing I can think of to test that is toss them in galactic war and hit auto. Or make IG88 your defense leader.

"GOWLIKEABOSS;c-1537573" wrote:

"PremierVenoth;c-1537497" wrote:
Jawas have dets too. And Dets feel likes ships: a cool implementation, a lot of possibility, synergies are almost there, but no follow through.

Sadly, with the amount of user generated hype over Jango... he is going to be Toon that makes unresistable, uncleansible dets. A monster of our own making. I'll be happy to repost this when they add him and two more republic era BH's (Embo, obviously, and likely Aura Sing) - he will be P2P. He's not a hero, and hype demands you need to $$ to use him early.

Semi-off subject - we haven't gotten anything fro the devs saying they worked on BH AI so they can accomplish the contract on defense, have we?

I had forgotten about Jawas, good point. BHs would need only their dets to be irrestible I suppose.

I'm also expecting new BH and reworks for Zam and Cad Bane when they do clone wars. Jango will likely be added to, but he won't be a hero's journey. Likely just a marquee unlock behind the same paywall as everyone else.

As for AI, one of the devs mentioned in a gamechangers video that the AI waa being tweaked to be better on defense, but they'd still be a lot better on offense. Only thing I can think of to test that is toss them in galactic war and hit auto. Or make IG88 your defense leader.

I believe that was only in 3v3 ships, not a general statement

#makeTDgreat

So another problem or possible issue with TD's is they are not or at least we're not unmitigated damage (unlike every other %heath damage in the game) so they didn't ignore defense and they could crit (crit chance and damage was based on the character they were on when they exploded). They also had varying differences in the % health damage they did.

Seems swgoh.gg is hiding the ability mechanics now (sad day) so can't tell how they are working now.

"scuba;c-1537684" wrote:
#makeTDgreat

So another problem or possible issue with TD's is they are not or at least we're not unmitigated damage (unlike every other %heath damage in the game) so they didn't ignore defense and they could crit (crit chance and damage was based on the character they were on when they exploded). They also had varying differences in the % health damage they did.

Seems swgoh.gg is hiding the ability mechanics now (sad day) so can't tell how they are working now.

That's a good point. They also don't take protection into account. I could always wreck Nhilus led sith teams due to this. Maybe they should be as effective vs enemies with protection too?

I like that they're different than base "also do damage equal to 20% max health" but I feel they need a special flair since they are so weak