Forum Discussion
800 Replies
"Mano;c-1653408" wrote:
CG wouldn't Face Such a Backlash if they were Considering giving back all the NS Zetas instead of just the DAka one..Let the Players decide for themselves if the Zeta is Good to invest or not..The New Changes was needed and u have worked so hard on the new mechanics and which of course seem very good..it would be wise to give back all the Ns Zetas and let the Players do what they want..I wouldn't Have Zetad my NS if it wasnt for HSTR
I don't want my zetas back, I want CG to propose better changes. In Old Ben's words, this could be considered a nerf "from a certain point of view". Players who've tirelessly built up a Sith P3 team are really hurt by this.
Sith P4
Players who've been striving for perfection in P4 don't get much from it, and here's why:-
The heal is like, yeah on face value, an extra heal can really help us keep that TM train rolling. But without wanting to sound totally ungrateful, the heal isn't a particularly great one, relative to what the others offer. Take Daka, who heals everyone to half her max health. Now, since a Zeta Daka's health stacks exceptionally high as the raid wears on, by the time you've on 50 stacks of bonds, that keeps you in the game.
20% of Zombie's max health may barely make a difference with bonds at that level, and my fear is that even at relatively low stacks of around 10-20 bonds it may not be enough to restore NS to max health and thus keep the TM train rolling.
I will caveat my concern/criticism here by saying it's tough to truly know the impact of this heal without real world testing i.e. decent mods, health stacking on Zombie and practise with high stacks.
What I will say is, I'm happy with a mechanic that allows me to keep that turn meter train rolling for longer, to offset the repeated deaths from Zombie - I'm just sceptical that this heal will be such a big game changer in that regard.
The fact that zombie takes 2 deaths for the team makes little to no difference in this phase. If she could take 2 annihilates for the team then believe me in the context of the Sith raid I'd be absolutely over the moon at this point! But that would probably be extremely dis-satisfactory in PVP.
Sith P3
Players have worked hard in recent months to hone their NS teams to score well in Sith P3. This isn't easy to setup, and it's extremely RNG dependent how well you score. You can get 5m on a good run, 15m on an exceptional run.
Those really high scores are mainly achieved by keeping the team alive post-enrage, and that's totally RNG dependent because if Traya Isolates Daka on the first post enrage turn, it's all over.
Now, setting up this team means you need to get 2 of your NS dead. It can't be Asajj or Daka.
So it'll be MT and 1 other, either Spirit or Initiate.
Post update, you need to have any non-Zombie NS die twice before the deaths stick, so to say.
This will mean it'll add a number of turns to the run. The more turns it takes to get them 2 dead, the less damage you do. And there's a gulf between the damage you can do if you line it up in 2 turns or if you line it up in 5, it could be worth millions.
So this is absolutely a nerf in that context... and all because of the daft idea that Zombie takes 2 deaths for the team.
What I find surreal about that addition is that in almost every single scenario (basically apart from Annihilates or Executions), Nightsisters dying is good for the team. Talia dying is good. MT dying is good. Spirit dying is good. Initiate dying is good. Asajj and Daka both grow every more stronger and powerful the more this happens. So it's not wanted or needed that Zombie takes those deaths for the team... they're all good.
This very addition alone leaves me sceptical about the intentions of this change.
Either:
CG are happy to nerf the NS team - and by nerf - I want to add, I and I think most NS players are fully accepting of the removal of the paper zombie. But we're talking about the overall efficacy of the faction here, and paper zombie changes aside, this Undying Sacrifice equals a nerf.
Or
They just don't get the mechanics well enough to have made an informed decision. Both are depressing.- 1- Why refund Daka zeta but not Asajj's Zeta's?
2- Why not just revert Zombies to g4? that is exactly what players asked for.
3- Can someone explain to me how something can by META yet at the same time not be a dominant team?
4- How did you "We left Zombie’s constant taunting and reviving intact" but also you "If Zombie has two negative stacks she can not be revived" Was it left alone or was it changed?
5- Why is there no mention of how the -100 speed no revive will KILL THE P3 Damage TEAM?
6- what are the Future Nerfs based on the logic better should always be better logic?
When is Thrawn kit change because ZThrawn kills himself now in arena vs Traya while normal Thrawn is better vs Traya?
When is Magma trooper kit change because magma PUNISHES ENEMIES WITH A Zeta DN, normal DN is better Vs Magma teams.
In more detail:
1) Tophat claims this in paragraph 1 of this post the point of this fix is to prevent paper zombie from causing ASAJJ VENTRESS to deal massive damage. Then goes on to say later As a final note, per our previous communications, we will be removing the Old Daka Zeta from all players that have her Zeta’d. We are aiming to refund the Old Daka Zeta from all players that have her Zeta’d in the next update, but we will confirm in patch notes when it goes live.It seems Asajj is the Zeta impacted by the change to Zombie not Daka Zeta.
Why refund Daka zeta but not Asajj's Zeta's? Typo Maybe?
2) TopHat writes "But over time, we’ve gotten more and more requests to do something about Zombie. “Reset my Zombie.” “Fix Zombie.” “Respect my investment.” So we need to act". The changes specifically preventing MT and initiate from dying in P3 do not do anywhere close to what players asked for "reset my zombie" or "respect my investment". No one asked for MT or Initiate to not die or for Zombie to not revive after 2 deaths. Why was this chosen over what players actually asked for a revert of gear?
3) They claim that NS is going to return to the META (Most Effective Tactic Available), although not to previous dominance. If its not dominant it by definition has not returned to the META. Can someone explain to me how something can by META yet at the same time not be a dominant team?
4) Revives left alone or changed? The amount of double talk makes understanding the Dev post very difficult . One line says we left zombies constant taunting and reviving intact... the next line says except she can not be revived. Either you left it alone or you altered it? what happened?
5) MT P3 was a legit p3 NON-PAPER zombie team that was NERFED on the front setting it up (getting MT and Initiate to die) and on the back end by zombie not reviving at the end of the run. you mention the more difficult front but do not mention the back end where you have killed this team off by preventing revive, you know the revive that was left unchanged that actually changed..
6) This isnt a question more of an observation in Paragraph 2 Top hat says the core rule of the game is a higher level character should always be better in terms of outcome. This analysis of the core-strategy is wrong at it's own core. Plenty of characters function better at lower non maxed levels, Thrawn without a zeta is better than Thrawn with a Zeta Traya teams, R2 without cleanse is better than R2 with Zeta Vs EP STH without Omega taunts longer than with Omega, Sith Trooper without Omega deals actual Dmg to protection which is good vs sith, with Omega sith trooper damages health which is healed up almost instantly vs sith, 5's omega makes it harder to solo Rancor in 2015 with 5's because the extra tap that you don't need to apply speed down actually speeds up the Rancor, Old Ben 3* better than 7* The list can go on for almost every unit theres a scenario where better is worse and worse is better. In my opinion this is a weak reason to need to change a kit, but if so then just about ANY TOON CAN BE NERFED using this logic at any point in time.
Whats next Thrawn whole kit is nerfed in November because Thrawn kills himself now by constantly countering out of turn vs Traya in arena? If enough people complain their Thrawn kills himself would you consider changing his kit?
Why cant we just be honest and say NS are too good for the fragile sith raid we are nerfing them. That honesty would go a long way. - Yep this sucks. I want my Zetas back on nightsisters. You guys keep nerfing the sith raid. Guild already hates it now this is gonna break it. Don't know who is doing worst now MSF or Swgoh. Been with my guild since 2016. We keep losing old members cause of the sith raid. So now my only choice is to leave my guild to get Traya because you keep nerfing stuff. Leave it be. You designed it. Your not making it any easier. 1 character out the many useless characters that is a little stronger without throwing money at it is not that bad. Lol hey Jtr is still strong let's nerf her again for the raid too! Lol think your taking a big step back. But hey that's just me and my guild.
- Are the 2 revives per character per battle or per encounter? Do they reset each wave in TB or with each attack in TW?
"Rimbol;c-1653536" wrote:
Are the 2 revives per character per battle or per encounter? Do they reset each wave in TB or with each attack in TW?
Not sure about the second part but multiple times in this thread they've stated it's two revives total, not per character."Rimbol;c-1653536" wrote:
Are the 2 revives per character per battle or per encounter? Do they reset each wave in TB or with each attack in TW?
I asked this, tagging TopHat snd Crumb, haven't seen an answer..."Citizen_J;c-1652985" wrote:
CG, what happens in the sith raid when zombie is at -100% speed, thrawn swaps TM and zombie pops unbreakable will?
U continue with crap damage until enrage happens along with an aoe- Hmmm....
So why not just make the lvl 8 of Endless Horde activate at g12??
Would Zombie die less, leading to lower power up of Assajj - yes - CG objective achieved
Would people get that change better? - yes - community not 100% happy, but would understand it better and probably accept it...
Would your project manager look like they are not doing their job squeezing last cent out of the gaming community by panic farming other factions like ... hmm.. bounty hunters (?) and spending loads of cash doing so in order to beat the raid? - no
LOL2----------* "Hafglop;c-1653518" wrote:
"DuneSeaFarmer;c-1653102" wrote:
"Gimpyviper;c-1653094" wrote:
"SithGodSaint;c-1652994" wrote:
Man. This is really, really frustrating. I’ve been working on my NS for months to run in P3 of Sith Raid. I just put the three needed zetas on my characters yesterday and now I probably will not be able to run the P3 team. I’ve never complained on forums, but I am pretty upset.
That does suck but this rework has been coming for a long time now. And it's not like NS faction will suck they just won't be able to solo DN in P4 anymore.
Which is why it is happening. The main and only reason.
Yeah, right. Not because a state of a low gear zombie is unacceptable by game philosophy or anything. Just because the developers want to nerf nightsisters.
Look, man, you seem upset, but this change basically brought a new zombie which doesn't work as well as the last zombie. Zombie was an error, development wise, which was fixed. Nightsisters doing good in STR was not a problem, but their performance took a beating when the zombie error was fixed. There isn't really another way to fix zombie - anything less would have been a nerf both to STR and to the character as a whole, so they buffed the character as a whole while removing one of the exploits in STR.
They removed more than one "exploit" & they are the ones who created the Raid with Night Sisters as they Key team for the thing a year ago! Now that people have reached the level and ready for it, they are changing not one toon, the whole faction is affected. The only good way to use Zombie is in the Arena. & when you do use her, YES every Night Sister Zeta, Lead or Unique (except Initiate) is worthless. This is kick in the balls & it's going to take some time to get over. It is clear that CG doesn't care about the largest portion of their clientele. Even after the outcry a couple of months ago, they only care that the people who spend the most are upset about their raid scores. There are far more ridiculous toons that screw things up than a Zombie, which doesn't die (wait...that's novel) every team that has been put up on youtube by people showing what they have accomplished, has been ripped apart. Punishing the public for achievement rather than rewarding. This has become a ritual that is unbecoming of any corporation & I am having serious thoughts of walking away after everything. It's not just one time, & I am beside myself with this"Hafglop;c-1653518" wrote:
"DuneSeaFarmer;c-1653102" wrote:
"Gimpyviper;c-1653094" wrote:
"SithGodSaint;c-1652994" wrote:
Man. This is really, really frustrating. I’ve been working on my NS for months to run in P3 of Sith Raid. I just put the three needed zetas on my characters yesterday and now I probably will not be able to run the P3 team. I’ve never complained on forums, but I am pretty upset.
That does suck but this rework has been coming for a long time now. And it's not like NS faction will suck they just won't be able to solo DN in P4 anymore.
Which is why it is happening. The main and only reason.
Yeah, right. Not because a state of a low gear zombie is unacceptable by game philosophy or anything. Just because the developers want to nerf nightsisters.
Look, man, you seem upset, but this change basically brought a new zombie which doesn't work as well as the last zombie. Zombie was an error, development wise, which was fixed. Nightsisters doing good in STR was not a problem, but their performance took a beating when the zombie error was fixed. There isn't really another way to fix zombie - anything less would have been a nerf both to STR and to the character as a whole, so they buffed the character as a whole while removing one of the exploits in STR.
How is the 2x revive shit NOT a direct counter to P3 tactic. All the zombie rework stuff came intentionally with NS nerf under the hood. I mean, how can they sell BH better than nerf the best P3/P4 Team? Guess all have to switch to Chex or AURA SING now... ridiculous...
