Forum Discussion
- I think it might make some people overpowered because bonus turns pierce shock
"cannonfodder_iv;c-1869805" wrote:
Exactly what @dimi4a said. We can't know developer intent, but if I recall correctly, bonus terms first appeared with the GMY rework, which came after the EP rework,...
Han solo, says :"Hi!"
It looks like this was already done with Thrawn.
The funny thing about Thrawn is, that the ability description doesn't mention bonus turns. He simply performs a TM swap. The guaranteed next turn is not described anywhere in-game."AntiFunn;c-1870173" wrote:
I think it might make some people overpowered because bonus turns pierce shock
Not as OP as JKR or DR with Malak teams currently are!"Waqui;c-1869181" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1869010" wrote:
"Rogenhamen;c-1869004" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1868998" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1868996" wrote:
"DaPowerfulJedi;c-1868803" wrote:
Vader and Maul too.
They do not have any immediate bonus turn mechanics.
Oops. Vader technically does. But I can’t see anywhere that Maul does.
Maul takes another turn after he kills a unit with his basic.
Ah. I skipped that sentence when I read his abilities. Lol.
Regardless, I agree about the difference between bonus turns and immediate 100% TM gain. I’ve been in a few discussions on here before about them. A couple toons have ability listed as “bonus turn” but are still subject to a TM coin flip (Shoots First...). There needs to be a clear delineation of what is what in this terminology. Or, make them all the same, functionally.
It appears that the TM gain from getting a "bonus turn" can't be prevented with daze/shock, while the TM from getting "100% bonus TM" can. So there already is this delineation.
I understand there is a difference in how the two abilities function, what I’m saying is that some abilities are listed as “bonus turns” but their in-game functionality is that of 100% TM gain. That’s the delineation I’m talking about, that some abilities are described one way but function the other. This could (...will) lead to players to strategize one way when they shouldn’t due to incorrect description language.- cannonfodder_ivNew Spectator
"Waqui;c-1871428" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1871420" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1869181" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1869010" wrote:
"Rogenhamen;c-1869004" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1868998" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1868996" wrote:
"DaPowerfulJedi;c-1868803" wrote:
Vader and Maul too.
They do not have any immediate bonus turn mechanics.
Oops. Vader technically does. But I can’t see anywhere that Maul does.
Maul takes another turn after he kills a unit with his basic.
Ah. I skipped that sentence when I read his abilities. Lol.
Regardless, I agree about the difference between bonus turns and immediate 100% TM gain. I’ve been in a few discussions on here before about them. A couple toons have ability listed as “bonus turn” but are still subject to a TM coin flip (Shoots First...). There needs to be a clear delineation of what is what in this terminology. Or, make them all the same, functionally.
It appears that the TM gain from getting a "bonus turn" can't be prevented with daze/shock, while the TM from getting "100% bonus TM" can. So there already is this delineation.
I understand there is a difference in how the two abilities function, what I’m saying is that some abilities are listed as “bonus turns” but their in-game functionality is that of 100% TM gain. That’s the delineation I’m talking about, that some abilities are described one way but function the other. This could (...will) lead to players to strategize one way when they shouldn’t due to incorrect description language.
Getting a bonus turn is getting 100% TM. Nothing else. However getting a bonus turn can't be prevented, while getting 100% TM can. One doesn't function like the other. The only example where the description should be changed is Thrawn's TM swap which was left unchanged, when the functionality was changed.
I don't think this is true anymore and why the description differences that @KausDebonair points out are valid, and why Han Solo's description is inaccurately described as a "Bonus Turn" when he actually just starts an encounter with 100% TM. The "immediate bonus turn" mechanic, I believe, passes immediate control of the next turn to the specified character. There is no opportunity for other toons with full turn meters to go subject to coin flips among other toons with full turn meter.
Savior is a great example of this and one that we are all well aware of. I've fought hundreds of CLS vs. JKR battles and never once have I seen Savior be subject to the TM coin flip. The saved jedi always takes the next turn. GMY is another example. Since the rework, I've not seen anyone take a turn in between Masterstroke and GMY's next turn. CLS and Call to Action on the other hand is a very different story. Fighting CLS vs. JKR, if you trigger savior using Call to Action (by having a Chewie assist on a guarded CLS), CLS will never be the next character to go. If "bonus turn" semantics were the same as "100% TM", it would have happened at least once by now (average 4 CLS v JKR fights per day since January)
Anyone that runs Raid Han in "Smuggler's Run" knows that Shoot First doesn't mean "immediate bonus turn" as other members of his team can go ahead of him. "cannonfodder_iv;c-1873221" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1871428" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1871420" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1869181" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1869010" wrote:
"Rogenhamen;c-1869004" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1868998" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1868996" wrote:
"DaPowerfulJedi;c-1868803" wrote:
Vader and Maul too.
They do not have any immediate bonus turn mechanics.
Oops. Vader technically does. But I can’t see anywhere that Maul does.
Maul takes another turn after he kills a unit with his basic.
Ah. I skipped that sentence when I read his abilities. Lol.
Regardless, I agree about the difference between bonus turns and immediate 100% TM gain. I’ve been in a few discussions on here before about them. A couple toons have ability listed as “bonus turn” but are still subject to a TM coin flip (Shoots First...). There needs to be a clear delineation of what is what in this terminology. Or, make them all the same, functionally.
It appears that the TM gain from getting a "bonus turn" can't be prevented with daze/shock, while the TM from getting "100% bonus TM" can. So there already is this delineation.
I understand there is a difference in how the two abilities function, what I’m saying is that some abilities are listed as “bonus turns” but their in-game functionality is that of 100% TM gain. That’s the delineation I’m talking about, that some abilities are described one way but function the other. This could (...will) lead to players to strategize one way when they shouldn’t due to incorrect description language.
Getting a bonus turn is getting 100% TM. Nothing else. However getting a bonus turn can't be prevented, while getting 100% TM can. One doesn't function like the other. The only example where the description should be changed is Thrawn's TM swap which was left unchanged, when the functionality was changed.
I don't think this is true anymore and why the description differences that @KausDebonair points out are valid, and why Han Solo's description is inaccurately described as a "Bonus Turn" when he actually just starts an encounter with 100% TM.
How is that inaccurate? Quoting myself: "Getting a bonus turn is getting 100% TM".
Yes, the description might lead you to believe, that Han will actually also perform his action, but that's a different issue."cannonfodder_iv;c-1873221" wrote:
The "immediate bonus turn" mechanic, I believe, passes immediate control of the next turn to the specified character. There is no opportunity for other toons with full turn meters to go subject to coin flips among other toons with full turn meter.
Correct. What's your point?"cannonfodder_iv;c-1873221" wrote:
Savior is a great example of this and one that we are all well aware of. I've fought hundreds of CLS vs. JKR battles and never once have I seen Savior be subject to the TM coin flip. The saved jedi always takes the next turn.
Did you ever trigger it with multiple characters being on 100% TM after saviour triggered?"cannonfodder_iv;c-1873221" wrote:
GMY is another example. Since the rework, I've not seen anyone take a turn in between Masterstroke and GMY's next turn.
GMY doesn't simply gain a bonus turn. GMY gains an immediate bonus turn. There's a difference."cannonfodder_iv;c-1873221" wrote:
CLS and Call to Action on the other hand is a very different story. Fighting CLS vs. JKR, if you trigger savior using Call to Action (by having a Chewie assist on a guarded CLS), CLS will never be the next character to go. If "bonus turn" semantics were the same as "100% TM", it would have happened at least once by now (average 4 CLS v JKR fights per day since January)
Characters that gain a bonus turn or gain 100% turnmeter are all subject to the coin flip if at 100% TM. Characters that gain immediate bonus turns are not."cannonfodder_iv;c-1873221" wrote:
Anyone that runs Raid Han in "Smuggler's Run" knows that Shoot First doesn't mean "immediate bonus turn" as other members of his team can go ahead of him.
Correct. But the mechanics work a bit differently in those events during those initial blasts.
A better example would be, that when you enter battle in TW/GA against a team with pre-loaded TM, you're not guaranteed, that Han will take the first action. If an enemy has 100% turnmeter already, that enemy may move first.- cannonfodder_ivNew Spectator@Waqui So in your lexicon "Bonus Turn" means "100% TM" and "Immediate Bonus Turn" means takes the next turn and is not subject to turn meter mechanics. Sure. I think we're in agreement. That being the case, then maybe CLS should take an "Immediate Bonus Turn" after Call to Action and maybe Raid Han should take an "Immediate Bonus Turn" from Shoots First.
To clarify these situations, the "Bonus Turn" language should be changed to "gains 100% TM" since the current meaning, if accurately described above, is ambiguous. "dimi4a;c-1873239" wrote:
"cannonfodder_iv;c-1873221" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1871428" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1871420" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1869181" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1869010" wrote:
"Rogenhamen;c-1869004" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1868998" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1868996" wrote:
"DaPowerfulJedi;c-1868803" wrote:
Vader and Maul too.
They do not have any immediate bonus turn mechanics.
Oops. Vader technically does. But I can’t see anywhere that Maul does.
Maul takes another turn after he kills a unit with his basic.
Ah. I skipped that sentence when I read his abilities. Lol.
Regardless, I agree about the difference between bonus turns and immediate 100% TM gain. I’ve been in a few discussions on here before about them. A couple toons have ability listed as “bonus turn” but are still subject to a TM coin flip (Shoots First...). There needs to be a clear delineation of what is what in this terminology. Or, make them all the same, functionally.
It appears that the TM gain from getting a "bonus turn" can't be prevented with daze/shock, while the TM from getting "100% bonus TM" can. So there already is this delineation.
I understand there is a difference in how the two abilities function, what I’m saying is that some abilities are listed as “bonus turns” but their in-game functionality is that of 100% TM gain. That’s the delineation I’m talking about, that some abilities are described one way but function the other. This could (...will) lead to players to strategize one way when they shouldn’t due to incorrect description language.
Getting a bonus turn is getting 100% TM. Nothing else. However getting a bonus turn can't be prevented, while getting 100% TM can. One doesn't function like the other. The only example where the description should be changed is Thrawn's TM swap which was left unchanged, when the functionality was changed.
I don't think this is true anymore and why the description differences that @KausDebonair points out are valid, and why Han Solo's description is inaccurately described as a "Bonus Turn" when he actually just starts an encounter with 100% TM. The "immediate bonus turn" mechanic, I believe, passes immediate control of the next turn to the specified character. There is no opportunity for other toons with full turn meters to go subject to coin flips among other toons with full turn meter.
Savior is a great example of this and one that we are all well aware of. I've fought hundreds of CLS vs. JKR battles and never once have I seen Savior be subject to the TM coin flip. The saved jedi always takes the next turn. GMY is another example. Since the rework, I've not seen anyone take a turn in between Masterstroke and GMY's next turn. CLS and Call to Action on the other hand is a very different story. Fighting CLS vs. JKR, if you trigger savior using Call to Action (by having a Chewie assist on a guarded CLS), CLS will never be the next character to go. If "bonus turn" semantics were the same as "100% TM", it would have happened at least once by now (average 4 CLS v JKR fights per day since January)
Anyone that runs Raid Han in "Smuggler's Run" knows that Shoot First doesn't mean "immediate bonus turn" as other members of his team can go ahead of him.
Therefore Han's should be corrected to say that he starts each encounter with 100% TM and not a "bonus turn".
The current description is accurate. Getting a bonus turn is "getting 100% turnmeter, which can't be prevented". Nothing more. Nothing less. And that's exactly what happens.
Yes, the description may lead you to believe, that Han will be guaranteed to move first but that's a different story. According to the definitions, the description is correct."TVF;c-1873298" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1873296" wrote:
"dimi4a;c-1873239" wrote:
"cannonfodder_iv;c-1873221" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1871428" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1871420" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1869181" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1869010" wrote:
"Rogenhamen;c-1869004" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1868998" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1868996" wrote:
"DaPowerfulJedi;c-1868803" wrote:
Vader and Maul too.
They do not have any immediate bonus turn mechanics.
Oops. Vader technically does. But I can’t see anywhere that Maul does.
Maul takes another turn after he kills a unit with his basic.
Ah. I skipped that sentence when I read his abilities. Lol.
Regardless, I agree about the difference between bonus turns and immediate 100% TM gain. I’ve been in a few discussions on here before about them. A couple toons have ability listed as “bonus turn” but are still subject to a TM coin flip (Shoots First...). There needs to be a clear delineation of what is what in this terminology. Or, make them all the same, functionally.
It appears that the TM gain from getting a "bonus turn" can't be prevented with daze/shock, while the TM from getting "100% bonus TM" can. So there already is this delineation.
I understand there is a difference in how the two abilities function, what I’m saying is that some abilities are listed as “bonus turns” but their in-game functionality is that of 100% TM gain. That’s the delineation I’m talking about, that some abilities are described one way but function the other. This could (...will) lead to players to strategize one way when they shouldn’t due to incorrect description language.
Getting a bonus turn is getting 100% TM. Nothing else. However getting a bonus turn can't be prevented, while getting 100% TM can. One doesn't function like the other. The only example where the description should be changed is Thrawn's TM swap which was left unchanged, when the functionality was changed.
I don't think this is true anymore and why the description differences that @KausDebonair points out are valid, and why Han Solo's description is inaccurately described as a "Bonus Turn" when he actually just starts an encounter with 100% TM. The "immediate bonus turn" mechanic, I believe, passes immediate control of the next turn to the specified character. There is no opportunity for other toons with full turn meters to go subject to coin flips among other toons with full turn meter.
Savior is a great example of this and one that we are all well aware of. I've fought hundreds of CLS vs. JKR battles and never once have I seen Savior be subject to the TM coin flip. The saved jedi always takes the next turn. GMY is another example. Since the rework, I've not seen anyone take a turn in between Masterstroke and GMY's next turn. CLS and Call to Action on the other hand is a very different story. Fighting CLS vs. JKR, if you trigger savior using Call to Action (by having a Chewie assist on a guarded CLS), CLS will never be the next character to go. If "bonus turn" semantics were the same as "100% TM", it would have happened at least once by now (average 4 CLS v JKR fights per day since January)
Anyone that runs Raid Han in "Smuggler's Run" knows that Shoot First doesn't mean "immediate bonus turn" as other members of his team can go ahead of him.
Therefore Han's should be corrected to say that he starts each encounter with 100% TM and not a "bonus turn".
Getting a bonus turn is "getting 100% turnmeter, which can't be prevented". Nothing more. Nothing less.
Yes, the description may lead you to believe, that Han wil actually always move first, but according to the definition of aht a bonus turn is, the description is fine.
Well at least it would cut down on all the "why isn't my Han shooting first" threads we still somehow get in 2019.
Hahaha just kidding, no it wouldn't.
Hey! That's interesting. When posting my comment, which you just quoted, I got the message from the spam filter, that my message would appear after it was approved. Yet you seem to be able to see and quote it. Interesting. I never knew, that this is how it works. Great! :-)- cannonfodder_ivNew Spectator@Waqui Understood and agreed. I think the use of "Bonus Turn" as "non-preventable 100% TM gain" is especially confusing as the word "turn" implies an action. With current TM mechanics, this is an action that may never get taken depending on what else is going on.
To answer a prior question of yours around Savior. Am I sure that other characters on my squad are at 100% TM when Savior is triggered, the answer would be "as certain as I can be based on the visual evidence provided in the turn meter bar". As I'm sure you know, CLS teams gain a significant amount of turn meter against JKR teams because of tenacity up provided to the Jedi. On lower geared teams, I sometimes need to be careful about following up Hans special with his basic on the same toon if R2 is sitting at 100% TM but hasn't been able to smoke screen himself on his second turn yet. This is especially true if I'm targeting Revan as the first toon to trigger Survivor. I can record some if you're interested in seeing the mechanic in action. It would be great if the more detailed status effects screens also displayed exact values for protection, health, and turn meter.
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