So I'm playing in fleet arena and for a few days now I've noticed that it appears my ships that get both offense up and offense down at the same time are still hitting for crap compared to when they don't even have offensive buffs.My Phantom regularly can hit for 50+K with no offensive buffs. When it has offense up (50%+) it hits for 72-80K damage, which seems about right. However, when I end up with BOTH offense up and offense down, my phantom is hitting for 26-32K damage as if ONLY offense DOWN is being counted. This isn't a one time thing, I see this happening consistently. The same thing happens to tie advanced, slave 1, etc. If I have offense UP and offense DOWN, they should cancel each other out. Right? Seems like something is hinky and should be looked at because that ain't right. (Especially when the AI seems to not have an issue with both offense up and down on at once.)

"Kyno;c-1688265" wrote:Are they the same % effect?Unless I'm mistaken, all offense down/up % are the same. https://gaming-fans.com/star-wars-goh/swgoh-resources/buffs-debuffs-list/However, are there any additional unique effects that the opponent ships are using? I remember recently finding out that you can't cleanse stun from plague inflicted characters thinking that thrawn could cleanse them and noticing what I thought was a bug.

If the down effect is calculated first and the up effect is calculated based off the new value they wouldn't exactly cancel out and the ship would cause less damage, but it shouldn't be all that much.

"Ephran;c-1688283" wrote:If the down effect is calculated first and the up effect is calculated based off the new value they wouldn't exactly cancel out and the ship would cause less damage, but it shouldn't be all that much.I thought they were 25%, with 50% it actually is significant. The math is 100 * .5 * 1.5 = 75, regardless of which is applied first, you'll always lose 25% of your attack power.

"Ephran;c-1688290" wrote:"Ephran;c-1688283" wrote:If the down effect is calculated first and the up effect is calculated based off the new value they wouldn't exactly cancel out and the ship would cause less damage, but it shouldn't be all that much.I thought they were 25%, with 50% it actually is significant. The math is 100 * .5 * 1.5 = 75, regardless of which is applied first, you'll always lose 25% of your attack power.^^^^^ this ........ 100 + 50 - 50% =75 100 -50 +50%=75 No matter the order of which works first simple maths state you will always loose 25%

"Ephran;c-1688290" wrote:"Ephran;c-1688283" wrote:If the down effect is calculated first and the up effect is calculated based off the new value they wouldn't exactly cancel out and the ship would cause less damage, but it shouldn't be all that much.I thought they were 25%, with 50% it actually is significant. The math is 100 * .5 * 1.5 = 75, regardless of which is applied first, you'll always lose 25% of your attack power.This could explains it, they dont cancel each other out before they are calculated. Seeing the opposing buffs doesnt mean no effect (which it should IMO), but just that they are both calculated into the equation.But wouldn't the equation be X - Y(X*0.5) + Z(X*0.5)= effective stat. Y and Z being 0 or 1 if the buff is present. X being the character stat (base not changed by buffs). Meaning that the buff or debuff is based on the " base stat" for the character, not the effective stat after a buff or debuff has been placed.I'm not sure if it is that way.

Offense up and Offense down combined = offense down?

Sewpot
7 years ago
I’ve always wondered about this sort of topic. Do buffs and debuffs read left to right?
As in the way the game calculates everything is from left to right. Finishing on the last right buff or debuff.
Reason I think this is because when you get foresight it always appears on the far left (if I’m not mistake)
So as to be the first buff used.
So if you have offence up and down at the same time the game will finish the attack with the last buff present on the far right.
Now with two mirror teams of Revan,GMY,Bastila you can’t see what’s going on anymore with all the buffs. They need to somehow clean that up.
Whatelse73
Rising Veteran
7 years ago
"Kyno;c-1688265" wrote:
Are they the same % effect?

Yes, I checked. They are both 50%.
VertigoBeast
7 years ago
They should cancel eachother out. Both go off of base offense as in offense up will add +50% of your characters offense before buffs/debuffs, and Offense down should give -50% of that same offense number before any status effect buffs/debuffs are taken into account.

Is it possible you're just attacking ships like Sun Fac when you've got both status effects? Sun Fac has a lot of armor and gets extra armor when attacked by buffed enemies.
thirtiethruby84
7 years ago
"Whatelse73;d-186809" wrote:
So I'm playing in fleet arena and for a few days now I've noticed that it appears my ships that get both offense up and offense down at the same time are still hitting for crap compared to when they don't even have offensive buffs.

My Phantom regularly can hit for 50+K with no offensive buffs. When it has offense up (50%+) it hits for 72-80K damage, which seems about right. However, when I end up with BOTH offense up and offense down, my phantom is hitting for 26-32K damage as if ONLY offense DOWN is being counted. This isn't a one time thing, I see this happening consistently. The same thing happens to tie advanced, slave 1, etc.

If I have offense UP and offense DOWN, they should cancel each other out. Right? Seems like something is hinky and should be looked at because that ain't right. (Especially when the AI seems to not have an issue with both offense up and down on at once.)

Which one is being applied first? Could that be the missing factor?
Whatelse73
Rising Veteran
7 years ago
"Vertigo;c-1688288" wrote:
They should cancel eachother out. Both go off of base offense as in offense up will add +50% of your characters offense before buffs/debuffs, and Offense down should give -50% of that same offense number before any status effect buffs/debuffs are taken into account.

Is it possible you're just attacking ships like Sun Fac when you've got both status effects? Sun Fac has a lot of armor and gets extra armor when attacked by buffed enemies.

Not attacking Sun Fac with it. Attacking any type of ship. Biggs, Vader, Slave 1, Phantom, etc.
Whatelse73
Rising Veteran
7 years ago
"Ephran;c-1688290" wrote:
"Ephran;c-1688283" wrote:
If the down effect is calculated first and the up effect is calculated based off the new value they wouldn't exactly cancel out and the ship would cause less damage, but it shouldn't be all that much.

I thought they were 25%, with 50% it actually is significant. The math is 100 * .5 * 1.5 = 75, regardless of which is applied first, you'll always lose 25% of your attack power.

(They are both 50%)

But if I'm normally hitting for 50K+ and then with both applied only hitting for 26-32K, that's a lot less than your calculation would indicate. If I'm hitting for that amount it is somewhere around 40-50% loss of damage.

Like I said, there's such a substantial drop in damage output with BOTH applied that it seems like offense down is being accounted for and ignoring offense up completely.
VertigoBeast
7 years ago
"Whatelse73;c-1688298" wrote:
"Vertigo;c-1688288" wrote:
They should cancel eachother out. Both go off of base offense as in offense up will add +50% of your characters offense before buffs/debuffs, and Offense down should give -50% of that same offense number before any status effect buffs/debuffs are taken into account.

Is it possible you're just attacking ships like Sun Fac when you've got both status effects? Sun Fac has a lot of armor and gets extra armor when attacked by buffed enemies.

Not attacking Sun Fac with it. Attacking any type of ship. Biggs, Vader, Slave 1, Phantom, etc.

Interesting, maybe theres a bug with it in fleets, I'll try to pay more attention to when I've got both status effects. If they're no longer acting based on the standard offense before status effects then that could easily be the problem as you'd go from 10,000 --> 15,000 --> 7,500 or from 10,000 --> 5,000 --> 7,500. However they SHOULD cancel eachother out as this was a question a long time ago in the early stages of the game as offense down would essentially always be better than offense up if they didn't use the same values.

Are you running Thrawn or Tarkin as your capital ship? Wonder if any of those bonuses are getting messed up.
NotRealUltra
Seasoned Newcomer
7 years ago
"Ephran;c-1688290" wrote:
"Ephran;c-1688283" wrote:
If the down effect is calculated first and the up effect is calculated based off the new value they wouldn't exactly cancel out and the ship would cause less damage, but it shouldn't be all that much.

I thought they were 25%, with 50% it actually is significant. The math is 100 * .5 * 1.5 = 75, regardless of which is applied first, you'll always lose 25% of your attack power.
Interesting. I always thought it cancelled out but the math proves otherwise.
NotRealUltra
Seasoned Newcomer
7 years ago
"Ephran;c-1688578" wrote:
"Huatimus;c-1688559" wrote:
It actually cancels out because both the buff and debuff is off the Base offense value. So it's not 1 x 1.5 x 0.5 = 0.75. The actual game mechanics is 1 + 0.5 - 0.5 = 1.

Is it confirmed it's additive and not multiplicative?
Huatimus is wrong

https://swgoh.gg/characters/aurra-sing/ability/hustle

Over here you can see offense up is multiplicative while the other part is additive
kieronkumar
7 years ago
"Ultra;c-1688579" wrote:
"Ephran;c-1688578" wrote:
"Huatimus;c-1688559" wrote:
It actually cancels out because both the buff and debuff is off the Base offense value. So it's not 1 x 1.5 x 0.5 = 0.75. The actual game mechanics is 1 + 0.5 - 0.5 = 1.

Is it confirmed it's additive and not multiplicative?
Huatimus is wrong

https://swgoh.gg/characters/aurra-sing/ability/hustle

Over here you can see offense up is multiplicative while the other part is additive

edited while I reconsider