Poe threads combined

"Wildcats1203;73184" wrote:

"BentWookie;72888" wrote:

"returnoftheewok;72291" wrote:

"Findec;72285" wrote:

"returnoftheewok;72146" wrote:
So the game before Poe was a strategy and skill game :D :D. The AI is incredibly stupid, instead of 100% free wins, now there is some rng involved. Deal with it. There are photos on here where non-poe teams beat higher-tier poe teams with dps.

So the game never used to be skillful enough for your liking so suddenly coinflips are fine? Absurd stats are fine? Stale metas with very few viable characters are fine?

What is with this childish attitude some people have where they try and characterise any and all criticism as crying or whining. It's this bizarre attempt at shaming seemingly done so to shield the game from any chance at improvement.

Never skillful for my liking? I never complained, and I have no problem dealing with p2p poe teams as a 100% f2p team. Of course I lose some, but the majority of times I dont. This game is rng based, most games like this are. Let me guess, you made the wrong character choices and you're getting completely owned right?

It's funny how before Poe came out people were whining about how the ai was so easy, and it was extremely rare to lose on offense, and now that it got harder to win on offense the crying has been non-stop. You miss those 100% win rates don't you? I guess you prefer a game where it's practically impossible to get a win on defense.

Preach on @ returnoftheewok!

Well said!

Poe doesn't cause a player to need more skill or strategy. At high levels, if a Poe attacks first you lose. No matter what.

Well.. I must be using my "skills and strategy" to beat the Poe teams, even when he goes "first".

I am 70, My server is mature, (we have Poe teams, Droid teams, Jedi Teams.. Etc.) there is not one flavor that is unbeatable. You just have to figure out what works best, instead of complaining I figure out.

I am sorry Poe gives you difficulties.

I think it's insane that you guys are defending Poe and this meta. Was it balanced before? No. Is it balanced now? No. How are RNG matches enjoyable to you guys? What is fun about starting a match and having 2 of your characters die before taking an action?

Sure, if RNG falls on your side you will be able to win against a strong Poe team, but your matches shouldn't be luck based.

There are a lot of characters who don't show their strength until turns 3+ but in this meta you can't even use them because battles don't last long enough to. I would say that Poe would be less viable if the overall pacing of a battle was slowed down so that everything wasn't killed before taking action but that's not the current state of the game.

So to balance that the devs need to either make a drastic change to the entire pacing of Arena or a band-aid approach to the underlying issue and nerf Poe/FOTP/etc.

Also, the dumb AI actually makes it easier for offensive Arena matches. If this was true PvP I can guarantee you that a P2P Poe team would have the highest win rate in the game right now.

"BentWookie;72888" wrote:

"returnoftheewok;72291" wrote:

"Findec;72285" wrote:

"returnoftheewok;72146" wrote:
So the game before Poe was a strategy and skill game :D :D. The AI is incredibly stupid, instead of 100% free wins, now there is some rng involved. Deal with it. There are photos on here where non-poe teams beat higher-tier poe teams with dps.

So the game never used to be skillful enough for your liking so suddenly coinflips are fine? Absurd stats are fine? Stale metas with very few viable characters are fine?

What is with this childish attitude some people have where they try and characterise any and all criticism as crying or whining. It's this bizarre attempt at shaming seemingly done so to shield the game from any chance at improvement.

Never skillful for my liking? I never complained, and I have no problem dealing with p2p poe teams as a 100% f2p team. Of course I lose some, but the majority of times I dont. This game is rng based, most games like this are. Let me guess, you made the wrong character choices and you're getting completely owned right?

It's funny how before Poe came out people were whining about how the ai was so easy, and it was extremely rare to lose on offense, and now that it got harder to win on offense the crying has been non-stop. You miss those 100% win rates don't you? I guess you prefer a game where it's practically impossible to get a win on defense.

Preach on @ returnoftheewok!

Well said!

Poe doesn't cause a player to need more skill or strategy. At high levels, if a Poe attacks first you lose. No matter what.

"BentWookie;73304" wrote:

"Wildcats1203;73184" wrote:

"BentWookie;72888" wrote:

"returnoftheewok;72291" wrote:

"Findec;72285" wrote:

"returnoftheewok;72146" wrote:
So the game before Poe was a strategy and skill game :D :D. The AI is incredibly stupid, instead of 100% free wins, now there is some rng involved. Deal with it. There are photos on here where non-poe teams beat higher-tier poe teams with dps.

So the game never used to be skillful enough for your liking so suddenly coinflips are fine? Absurd stats are fine? Stale metas with very few viable characters are fine?

What is with this childish attitude some people have where they try and characterise any and all criticism as crying or whining. It's this bizarre attempt at shaming seemingly done so to shield the game from any chance at improvement.

Never skillful for my liking? I never complained, and I have no problem dealing with p2p poe teams as a 100% f2p team. Of course I lose some, but the majority of times I dont. This game is rng based, most games like this are. Let me guess, you made the wrong character choices and you're getting completely owned right?

It's funny how before Poe came out people were whining about how the ai was so easy, and it was extremely rare to lose on offense, and now that it got harder to win on offense the crying has been non-stop. You miss those 100% win rates don't you? I guess you prefer a game where it's practically impossible to get a win on defense.

Preach on @ returnoftheewok!

Well said!

Poe doesn't cause a player to need more skill or strategy. At high levels, if a Poe attacks first you lose. No matter what.

Well.. I must be using my "skills and strategy" to beat the Poe teams, even when he goes "first".

I am 70, My server is mature, (we have Poe teams, Droid teams, Jedi Teams.. Etc.) there is not one flavor that is unbeatable. You just have to figure out what works best, instead of complaining I figure out.

I am sorry Poe gives you difficulties.

Poe taunts, then QGJ, GS, and FOTP combine to kill two of my characters before I move. Phasma gets speed down on my remaining characters, and it's game over for me. There's no strategy that can stop that when my team is dead before I get a turn.

Between myself and Ron on my leaderboard we both switch out who is number one in our time slot every day.

That said, I have yet to see this Poe meta (the full on Poe, FOTP, Leia, Sid, Lumi). Sure, people use Poe (I started just to see if it mattered much), but, to be completely honest (seriously, I am), I haven't noticed much difference. Versus the AI everything is stupid easy to win. Ron and I (and Merkal if he's playing that day) routinely beat teams six levels higher than us to get back to the top rank... Poe or no Poe. One of the guys from another time zone has the closest thing to this Poe meta I've seen on our leaderboard and we still knock him back from his top ten spot every day when our time comes. He was using Poe, QJinn, Sid, Lumi, Dooku (sometimes Luke) today... Was beaten severely in under two minutes by Poe (5* no less!), Sid, Lumi, Kylo, JC even though his Poe went first. His team gets bumped back regularly by some of the Chinese teams who are still running Bariss as leader (no Poe) even!

Seriously, people are arguing about a Poe meta that, frankly, doesn't even exist for 99.999999% of the playerbase.

Who really cares about the top 10? Those of us there know darn well it's more about strategizing timing and battle lockouts than actual in-battle strategy. If you have a high 'wallet warrior' count on your leaderboard, then it adds the dimension of how much you can spend for 7* Dooku, 7* FOTP, 7* Leia, etc. Some can be f2p'd but, come on, Dooku or FOTP at that level without big investment? Maybe in 3++ months. I've been farming Dooku for a month and barely unlocked his 3* rearend a couple days ago. The meta isn't feasible for f2p. Which is the way it's meant to be for $$$$ for CG/EA. Motivated to pay $$ you will be.

Seriously, 10k+++ people in each leaderboard and people are arguing for a nerf on a team only top 10 'wallet warriors' on older leaderboards are using? REALLY?

Let it go...

Go listen to the Frozen soundtrack a few times. It's inspiring.

"returnoftheewok;73364" wrote:
So matches shouldnt be lucked based, it should be an easy 100% win due to the dumb AI. I'd love someone's input on how this is a strategic game, and not a basic mobile game.

You ask how are rng matches fun? I actually find it more fun when there's a chance of losing, instead of a 100% easy win, and a 100% free snipe for my opponent. Now with my f2p poe team I actually have a small percent of defending. Even if that chance is extremely small, the fact that it's a possibility now makes me enjoy this more than before. Pre-poe, my level 53 team was owning level 60 teams :D, and like I said this isn't a strat game, it's just due to the AI being dumb. Why do people play games like hearthstone? There's a level skill to it(the skill level is far higher than this game), but it's also HIGHLY rng based.

And you're right about this "I would say that Poe would be less viable if the overall pacing of a battle was slowed down so that everything wasn't killed before taking action but that's not the current state of the game." And even as a Poe user and non-p2w player, if I had a choice of a nerf, it would be Poe, not because of the balance but because they spent thousands of dollars for FOTP. I would find it silly if the devs nerfed something people paid thousands of dollars for in a non-strategic game. Let them enjoy their op characters that they shelled out their thousand+ dollar for.

You're twisting my words. Saying the game needs to be balanced doesn't mean that I want 100% easy wins. It's already easy. I've placed rank 1 every day since I put gear 8 Poe in my lineup and he's only 5*. Most days I don't even drop below rank 10 on defense. Balance implies that the AI wouldn't be so dumb and the "best" team would be subjective because there would be multiple lineups with similar win rates. I think a balanced game would lead to a much harder time of scaling the Arena ladder and holding rank 1.

Also, I've never really said much about FOTP. Aside from his 3 attack glitch, there are other characters like GS, Resistance Pilot, Rey or even Greedo that can output ridiculous amounts of damage. I don't think the issue is the glass cannons as much as the speed that glass cannons are able to finish a battle. Until that is slowed down the meta will remain Poe + glass cannons + RNG

"ThePedroKid;73566" wrote:
Who really cares about the top 10? Those of us there know darn well it's more about strategizing timing and battle lockouts than actual in-battle strategy. If you have a high 'wallet warrior' count on your leaderboard, then it adds the dimension of how much you can spend for 7* Dooku, 7* FOTP, 7* Leia, etc. Some can be f2p'd but, come on, Dooku or FOTP at that level without big investment? Maybe in 3++ months. I've been farming Dooku for a month and barely unlocked his 3* rearend a couple days ago. The meta isn't feasible for f2p. Which is the way it's meant to be for $$$$ for CG/EA. Motivated to pay $$ you will be.

Seriously, 10k+++ people in each leaderboard and people are arguing for a nerf on a team only top 10 'wallet warriors' on older leaderboards are using? REALLY?

Let it go...

Go listen to the Frozen soundtrack a few times. It's inspiring.

Who cares about the top 10? Pretty much every competitive game ever in existence. Yes mobile games try to separate the gap between the top players and middle of the pack so that you are encouraged to spend money to compete, but nearly every competitive game in existence is balanced based upon what the "top 10" or top tier of players are doing.

Even if it takes F2P players months to reach a certain meta, most players will work towards whatever team is "best" at the time. Also, it doesn't take 3+ months to get a Poe team. I have a F2P account that I started only 3 weeks ago that already has a Poe build which places top 5 in the Arena ladder. Sid + Poe + Lumi + GS + Luke. And that's while being 5 levels behind the highest level player on the leaderboards. The current meta doesn't take money to abuse.

"Smithie;64140" wrote:
Higher the speed they go first.. Hence Dooku and Sid go first

No, speed figures are added each turn and any toon that makes it to, or above 1000 goes in the same turn (earliest is turn 7), RNG determines who goes first in turn 7 out of the ones over 1000.

"oTradeMark;74227" wrote:

"ThePedroKid;73566" wrote:
Who really cares about the top 10? Those of us there know darn well it's more about strategizing timing and battle lockouts than actual in-battle strategy. If you have a high 'wallet warrior' count on your leaderboard, then it adds the dimension of how much you can spend for 7* Dooku, 7* FOTP, 7* Leia, etc. Some can be f2p'd but, come on, Dooku or FOTP at that level without big investment? Maybe in 3++ months. I've been farming Dooku for a month and barely unlocked his 3* rearend a couple days ago. The meta isn't feasible for f2p. Which is the way it's meant to be for $$$$ for CG/EA. Motivated to pay $$ you will be.

Seriously, 10k+++ people in each leaderboard and people are arguing for a nerf on a team only top 10 'wallet warriors' on older leaderboards are using? REALLY?

Let it go...

Go listen to the Frozen soundtrack a few times. It's inspiring.

Who cares about the top 10? Pretty much every competitive game ever in existence. Yes mobile games try to separate the gap between the top players and middle of the pack so that you are encouraged to spend money to compete, but nearly every competitive game in existence is balanced based upon what the "top 10" or top tier of players are doing.

Even if it takes F2P players months to reach a certain meta, most players will work towards whatever team is "best" at the time. Also, it doesn't take 3+ months to get a Poe team. I have a F2P account that I started only 3 weeks ago that already has a Poe build which places top 5 in the Arena ladder. Sid + Poe + Lumi + GS + Luke. And that's while being 5 levels behind the highest level player on the leaderboards. The current meta doesn't take money to abuse.

It's not about disliking the current meta because it's p2w, which it isn't. It's that the RNG deciding which Pie goes first usually decides the match.

Poe doesn't cause a player to need more skill or strategy. At high levels, if a Poe attacks first you lose. No matter what.

This is just not true.

If you have Poe and they have Qui-Gon and Poe goes first then Qui-gon will special attack Poe, remove his taunt, and give his team offense up.

I've lost multiple times with Poe against Qui-Gon teams and that happens MORE when my Poe goes first than when his Qui-Gon goes first. I've also won quite a few.

The biggest problem with Poe I that the best counter is a Chromium exclusive or Poe himself (Dooku today just doesn't get the job done).

The real problem is that turn 1 is RNG based. I wouldn't bring Poe against a Qui-Gon if I -always- knew that Qui-Gon would follow him. Conversely I'd always bring Poe if I knew he'd always follow Qui-Gon.

"SlyGambit;74526" wrote:

The biggest problem with Poe I that the best counter is a Chromium exclusive or Poe himself (Dooku today just doesn't get the job done).

The real problem is that turn 1 is RNG based. I wouldn't bring Poe against a Qui-Gon if I -always- knew that Qui-Gon would follow him. Conversely I'd always bring Poe if I knew he'd always follow Qui-Gon.

This is a very good point on Poe. Poe isn't really overpowered, I personally think that has been well shown by Poe in teams without the Glass Canons. The real issue with these Teams is the damage to health ratio that is exposed when your opponent's team all go first. Right now, you generally lose 1-2 characters and are at a severe disadvantage.

Nerfing any character doesn't really solve problems anyway (generally speaking), and nobody likes for characters to lose power (just feels bad). Instead of nerfing Poe, we should really be looking at better options to counter these teams or other options to use different characters.

To me, these options include Buffing other characters like Mace/Asajj (why not Asajj removal be not resistible, or Mace can be a little faster and include speed up on removal of buff), maybe have a slight buff to evasion overall (I have had some success with Dooku leader), or maybe adding new skills into the game (Yoda - leader ability is all Jedi have 30% to reflect a blaster attack back at random target/shooter.) There really should be some skill in the game that can send your opponents attack back at them to help counter this 1 shot meta. Of course, then there would be an incredible amount of complaints about stunned characters reflecting shots ;)

I also think it is important to point out that Poe is really only a problem in Arena right now. GW simply requires 1 or 2 canon fodder characters to blow his cooldown, and then you crush the squishys. Once you nerf Poe/FoTP, there will just be a different character/team that will be the 90% meta in Arena. No reason to just nerf characters and cycle metas when there are so many other ways to expand enjoyment in the game. So another option is to have more end-game content, where any individual character can shine.

Some have pointed to HoDA where they buffed certain abilities/characters on a weekly or semi weekly basis for special events. This of course, would be great to allowing players to use a field of characters. The main thing HODA lacked for me was any sort of cooperation events. I also played Star Wars Force Collection, which I think also had some events that SWGoH could look at implementing. Having a week long event where you kill AT-ATs for instance and it takes multiple teams, and allies can come help kill the big bad boss, and you gain points for assisting/killing in the event. Global events and use of Allies/Guilds are going to be key end game content points for this game.

Basically, I think there are so many other ways to make this Poe/Damage meta not seem so terrible rather than just nerfing a character.