Sith Triumvirate Raid Feedback Thread

We are 80mil gp
Do t4 sometimes t5
Use the best mix of toons that we've got.

This is how one of my fellow officers summed it up "my general feeling: it's godawful boring, a huge timesink, very RNG dependent, and bad rewards compared to the level of preparation and effort required."

1st problem is that the stacking tenacity is pure bull pucky. This excludes a majority of players rosters from being usable and this you need highly special teams to do anything but the minimumal amount of damage.

2nd it's far too time consuming for the prizes that you receive. Our guild does heroic on the other raids and maybe you'll invest 10-15 fun minutes into each raid when we run it, and get really good prizes for that time investment. On the other hand the sith raid take at least a half hour every day and there is always a sith raid running so it's a daily grind and the prizes are just terrible.

3rd P1 and P4 are long boring slogs that are just way too rng dependent. This causes a lot of our players to not even participate nin the raid, which in turn makes them longer, more boring and less rewarding. Plus this puts the weight of the raids on a handful of more dedicated players, and I'll assume if this keeps up for too long that they are gonna leave or guild to look for green pastures, which in turn will hurt all the rest of us left in the guild after they leave.

Please fix this broken raid before you cause any more strife in our guilds.

Guild is 65mil GP we do tier 4
I would prefer tier 3 because t4 is to difficult to enjoy for me, except dont need tier 3 rewards to low of level gear.

I use Nightsister, Rebels, Troopers, FO/Sith variant and then usually a rebel variant with BB-8 or droids.

I enjoy phase 2 against Sion. Testing limit of how much damage i can do yet still survive Traya is okay sometimes in p3 but p1 and 4 are not enjoyable at all. Just try really hard and barely get any dmg done.

Any Phase with Nihilus demotivates me to keep playing it and then a phase (4) with all of them is awful. Its tricky enough fighting Nihilus on his own.

I believe the raid just has to many things against us and limits us to much. Raid boss tenacity makes debuff reliant characters useless and cooldown reduction is powerful move. Annihilate is super hard to tell when to use special buff since Nihilus gains speed per hit and then if you do get it right sometimes he just decides not to use annihilate even tho its ready. And then even if you survived your usually as good as dead especially since Nihilus goes right through protection and just damages health and reduces cooldown incase you had healing move ready.

Often takes lots of retries just to get an okay score this goes for all phases which is very annoying cuz make one mistake half way through and then have to restart and there is no restart but so takes while when you retreat and start over and over.

Isolate is also very unenjoyable to go against because it ruins team synergies that you are atemping to use, just basically makes it pointless to build up teams you enjoy because if they require a whole team synergy they dont work. Also Taunting doesn't work half of the time cuz a light saber dispels it and then Traya isolates someone else.

Since they have to many counters (infinite tenacy, annihilate, cooldown reduction, stun, daze, isolate, speed gains ect) it just makes it really simple and boring because only Heavy damage dealers with turn meter gains and healers/revivers are good and we cant use all these fancy cool abilities most of our toons have now. It made me quite sad that Rogue 1 rebels my only g12 team is very awful in sith raid cuz all bosses stack tenacity and then they nerfed expose because Jtr teams were doing to much dmg further crippling R1 and not just on sith raid but all raids, just a slap in the face since R1 relies on expose.


I would say the biggest problem is not how hard it is but rewards are awful plain and simple. I would be content doing tier 1 if it was just that hard we had to. But the rewards should not be worse then Rancor. We usually do tier 4 because t3 rewards are useless, even tier 4 is not good. We can spend 15 minutes on Rancor and get better rewards then hours and loads of retries on sith.

Seems to me like there’s plenty of data points here.

Sitting on T4 with 90M GP, currently takes us 5-6 days to beat

Teams:
- Wiggs, CLS, Han, R2
- Imperial Troopers
- Vader, Wampa + Boba
- Nightsisters
- AA, Leia, BB-8 and Death Trooper

Ph1 Nihilus is the biggest waste of time, my guild has given up. Ph2 and 3 are reasonably enjoyable. Ph4 is ok except for Nihilus again.

Cons:
- Too much HP. It doesn’t make the raid harder, just an absolute time sinkhole.
- Stacking tenacity makes almost every toon useless and doesn’t broaden the team requirement but massively limits it. My guild mostly autos since there is no real point of trying to strategize.
- Rewards are the biggest slap in the face at the end, after each raid I seriously consider whether it is worth relaunching the raid.

Pros:
- TM reduction immunity on Sion is cool, but still way too much tenacity for anything else to work.
- It’s a new raid... which is nice?

Hi

What tier or tiers did you play? Tier 5

What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid? 80M

What teams you did you attempt the raid with? Classic CLS, Classic Palpatine, First Order, Wedge Biggs, Fenix

What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying? Demotivated about rewards and Nihilus mechanisms, motivated: nothing (I'm still playing out of respect for the guild's friends)

What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid? Completely disappointed

Regards

1) What tier or tiers did you play?

We're currently doing T6, but not too long ago we were doing T5

2) What GP is your guilg that is attempting the raid?

We're a 110M GP guild, personally I'm 1,8Mil GP

3) What teams you did the attempt the raid with?

P1: zzzCLS(L), zzR2, GK, Rex, zHan
zVeers, zThrawn, DT, Snow, Magma
Constantly trying out other teams but can't find anything useful as most rely on assists, counters or debuffs.

P2: zzzCLS, zzR2, GK, Rex, zHan
zVeers, zThrawn, DT, Snow, zStarck
Sabine Phoenix (no zetas)
Princess Zody

P3: ChexMix
zVeers, zThrawn, zStarck, Snow, Magma/Shore
GK, Zarriss + 3 Attackers
Princess Zody
Sabine Phoenix

P4: Usually skip DN when possible, then throw similar teams as P2 or P3

4) What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying?

Motivations: eventually getting to heroic. Helping my guild out. Trying to remain at top 10 scores.

Demotivators: terrible rewards. The raid is too long and it's exhausting. On busy days I just thrown my CLS team on auto to make sure I post some damage. Also, constantly having to reset attempts because of RNG, such as not timing UW correctly in P1, wrong character getting isolated in P3. Also, not understanding some mechanics such as why some characters get Remove Isolation and others Remove Bonds of Weakness in P3, making it impossible to plan strategies.

5) What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid?

Enjoy: mostly P2. It's the only part of the raid that makes some sense and where mechanics are easy to grasp, on which I can do some nice damage without constantly resetting. Too bad it's done in less than a day. Now that I have a halfway decent ChexMix team I kinda enjoy P3, but it's still too RNG dependant to actually get a good score without resetting a lot.

Dislike: Nihilus. It's just evil. Regenerating protection on top of a enormous health pool means some people barely make a scratch on him. Also, the completely unpredictable mechanics of him using Annihilate, the incredibly random cooldowns depending on buffs, which I can't be bothered to learn because either way I'm not getting good enough damage without a JTR team. The fact that I can't use basics but Force Drain increases cooldowns on specials. It's just completely unbalanced. On top of it all, it's everyone's least favorite part, so usually people try to avoid hitting him resulting in at least 2 days chipping away at his health. I also dislike seeing my guildmates who have JTR getting 30-40k total throughout the raid while I'm struggling to get a 13k score. It's completely demoralizing, and I actually end up around top 10-15 (best ranking was 8).
On a lesser note, it's just too complicated. Maybe it's me being demotivated but I can't be bothered to actually try to get more than a rudimentary understanding of the mechanics for a raid that doesn't give out good rewards, takes too long to finish, it's far too dependant on RNG even if I bothered doesn't let me use most of my roster, and overall isn't fun at all.

What tier or tiers did you play?
Currently running T3, have completed T4 in the past but not worth the additional time and effort

What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid?
53M GP

What teams you did you attempt the raid with?
Thrawn lead empire, Phoenix, Wedge lead rebels, First Order, Leftovers (newer player)

What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying?
Most of the guild hates it so much that its pulling teeth to get anyone to participate other than P2/P3 which finish in an hour. Rewards are bad enough that we can't justify making attendance on an event that people hate mandatory to progress. So we are stuck at least a tier below what we could actually finish without capping tickets, and it is hard to be one of the only ones putting in effort. This dissonance has destroyed guilds gamewide. Main reason I put in any effort at all is that the guild currency does add up and without it I would fall even further behind the folks that jumped to more hardcore guilds.

What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid?
I enjoyed learning the mechanics of the raid to post above average damage with a below average roster, but the mechanics itself are objectively pretty terrible, mostly nihilus. There's just too much to juggle, and the protection steal mechanics are just unnecessary.

Phase 1 needs a raid special ability allowing a unit to skip a turn, that is unaffected by Nihilus' cooldown from drain force, in order to shed defense down when other skills are on cooldown. It is bad design to corner players into having only the option to hurt themselves with an action (attacking with basic with defense down debuff). I actually prefer P4 to P1, despite more going on, simply because Sion is always there to hit when you get defense down and need to shed it.

I also feel like giving the defense down from nihilus a special icon and mouseover description would make things more intuitive for players, as many seem not to notice that nihilus steals protection when they have defense down, since its a common debuff that we see all over the game and usually has nothing special attached. Would be a nice QoL move for newer or casual players.

"CG_SBCrumb;d-169517" wrote:
Hello Holotable Heroes,

We have received a wide range of feedback about the newest raid, The Sith Triumvirate and we would like to hear more about your experience. Please include the following information in addition to your feedback:

• What tier or tiers did you play?
  
• What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid?
  
• What teams you did you attempt the raid with?
  
• What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying?
  
• What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid?
  

@CG_SBCrumb here is what you asked for. Best of luck to you in the position and welcome to the team. A tough initial task for you.

• What tier or tiers did you play?
o T6 upon release to unlock Heroic (two weeks to complete)
o Dropped down to T5 until 5/10/18 (last T5 completed took 3 days)
o Bumped up to T6 to check progress (Took 4.5 days to complete – one full day was spent with Nihilus in P4 due to guilds team compositions to DMG Nihilus)
• What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid?
o 98 - 114 Million (From time of STR release until now)
• What teams you did you attempt the raid with?
o JTR (zJTR, R2-Z2, zBB-8, Visas, SRey)
o Troopers (Zeers, Starck, DT, Shore, Snow)
o Rebels (CLS, Biggs, Wedge, rHan, pLeia)
o PS (Hera, Zeb, Kanan, Sabine, Ezra)
o FO (zKRU, Kylo, FOTFP, FOSFTP, FOX)
o Dark Side (Zader, EzP, Zion, Thrawnz, Nihilus)
• What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying?
- The only part that motivated me were my guild mates who always scored higher than me. I made it a point to myself to try and out score them (I’ve come close once to placing at the #1 spot, but score in top 3). This was to better myself as a player and to benefit my guild. If it weren’t for that I wouldn’t honestly care about this raid; not even to unlock Darth Traya.
- De-motivators - Let the list begin:
1. The fact that to make the raid difficult the bosses were given the ability to attack twice during a turn who either ignore protection (Nihilus) or crush you like a tank (Sion). Why do they get two, maybe three attacks, and I only get one, 2 or 3 if running Vader lead, which in turn renders useless because of Nihilus’ defense down and feeding him protection.
2. The horrendous so-called “rewards” you receive after completing the raid. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND you think twice about making a 40% rate which was discussed previously. A 100% drop rate for the current GXII pieces and a 50-60% chance for new pieces would be acceptable I think.
3. The constant re-starts and re-runs to get decent RNG to be able to post a somewhat decent score. I’m sorry I have a family and a job, I shouldn’t have to make a get out plan like I do with my stock investments of 3-5 runs and I’m done because of the amount of time required for this “raid.”
4. The fact that it made mandatory rules within our guild for specific team farming; minimum daily damage inputs, or receive a strike (by the way three strikes and you’re removed from the guild); and making this raid feel like I have yet another job.
• What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid?
- Dislikes:
1. The RNG of Nihilus when he has no cooldowns and all his abilities are available to him.
2. The ridiculous stacking tenacity that puts Vaders DOTS or Sions Pain difficult to place on the boss to make effective.
3. The absolute stacking speed of Darth Traya to where she pommels your character and you’re asking yourself will I get a turn.
4. The fact that there are only specific teams which can power through a solid percentage of this raid (JTR in P1 and NS in P4). I’m not looking for 5 teams to do 10%+, but when you only have two teams that can do this and the rest is a whopping 1-3%; come on.
5. The length of time required to finish this raid. If not doing hSTR then make more daily teams available; especially due to my de-motivator #2 (horrendous so-called “rewards”).
6. The fact that solid MODS are required for each toon to increase effectiveness and yet they’re hard to farm (RNGesus again) and then your MOD energy is also tied to node farms (NOT FUN).
7. Nihilus always starting off at 100% protection. No other character in the raid has protection. I’d be ok with the protection regeneration if it weren’t for the 100% protection re-start he gets.
8. The fact that expose damage was cut by 50% simply because it cleared the raid faster and the health reduction of the bosses was not what you would call “in-line” with the expose nerf.
9. In-line with my de-motivator #4, but the amount of times spent offline in airplane mode, do you even see that data (I’m going to assume no). So you don’t even really have a “true” idea of the amount of time some people put into their runs. The only consensus you really would have is people talking about the number of runs they have to do (if they’re being honest if they even mention the number of runs in which they conduct).
10. The fact that in P3 if Traya’s Isolate is not on a CD of three you need to sacrifice a team just in order to try and maximize a JTR score (we don’t run Heroic, so we’re still able to use the JTR team comp here)
11. States he finds it boring since it’s repetitive and he has fully learned every mechanic it offers. He has more fun in HAAT because you can throw whatever you want at it and perform decently, while STR seems to be much more limited to the teams which can be utilized.
12. It is not enjoyable to play, it takes too long and is very, very repetitive. He does the raid and will continue to develop his team's, because he feels a responsibility to the guild and because it’s becoming fairly apparent that Traya will lead to an us and them situation more than the previous 2 raid characters; who while very, very good aren't absolutely necessary to be competitive.
13. Built his Gar Saxon team starting like a year ago and was excited that he could throw a deathmark on someone and have a pretty damn good chance of knocking them out or putting a solid dent in them and now to have it be worthless against Nihilus and only effective against Sion and Traya is incredibly frustrating. This member significantly struggled to even put up 1 million dmg between 5 squads in T6 and is nearly F2P with a small pack ($10) here or there.
14. The STR putting the icing on the cake for long time, high GP members to quit the game.
15. The fact that I vent on our guilds discord channel and have the thought of quitting this game due to all the dislikes and de-motivators that have been mentioned for this raid alone; you don’t even want to get me started on the RNGesus of this game!

- Likes:
1. The “idea” of using a heavy roster; however, it fails because of #2 and #4 in my dislikes.
2. P2 I like just because I don’t soothe and I just try to put out MAX DMG, but once we start hSTR this will change as there are no character refreshes and I will now have to spread my roster out.
3. The fact that KOTOR was brought into the game.
4. The fact that something which went against game mechanics (I.E. – stHan) was fixed. This IS NOT the same as my #8 dislike (expose nerf) as this was a functioning mechanic implemented by developers.

Hope this helps.

Very Respectfully,

Rangkor

What tier or tiers did you play? 5
What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid? 80 but actual 50
What teams you did you attempt the raid with? P1: JTR team, P2: troopers, P3: Chex mix, P4: Sisters and garbage
What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying? Positive: P1 is funny (but only for people who unlocked Rey), P2 super fast, P3 I like the team mechanic. Negative: rewards, Shield of Nihilus, Nihilus' power of ignoring your protection. P4 in general is awful.

It's ok for me to not gain any shard of the most powerfull character you've ever created. What I cannot stand is the completely rubbish I'm earning with P4-P5.

Because you were too kind to raise the quality of rewards, that you decided to low down again it after a week.
Seems legit.