Smuggler’s Run: Han doesn’t shoot first! Say what?!

"Waqui;c-1648633" wrote:
@Kyno

Gaining a bonus turn is defined as gaining 100% TM according to you. So, when B2, JKA, Biggs etc. gain 100% TM through their abilities, why is a different wording used? Why doesn't their description say that they gain a bonus turn? It's inconsistent. Similar behaviour should be described with similar wording. Using a different wording suggests a different behaviour.

I'm not saying, that Han behaves wrong. I'm saying, he doesn't behave as described.

On a side note:
You never answered my question about GMY. When he takes an immediate bonus turn, does he simply immediately gain 100% TM? Or is he guaranteed to always perform the next action even if another toon also has 100% TM? I'm curious.

Yes I did. GMY has a description that allows him to avoid the coin toss.

Han has no such wording, and if he is intended to take the first action and not be subject to any other mechanics that could be present at the start if a battle, then they should change the description to say that.

If multiple toons are trying to take their turn as they are all 100% tm they are subject to the coin toss.

I see nothing in his description that says he should go before someone else that is at 100% TM at the start of the encounter. But we can agree to disagree and maybe they will chnage this to be more clear.

Either way I would still imagine that events like this will still lock the player out from that and allow the opponent with loaded tm to go first.

"Kyno;c-1648676" wrote:

Yes I did. GMY has a description that allows him to avoid the coin toss.

@Kyno It might be in the description, but may not be entirely true.

"Buddy;c-1647939" wrote:
Anecdotally, I’ve had GMY not get his 2nd turn right away in the ground assault event a couple of times...

I have also experienced the same with GMY. Not exactly sure in which game mode(s), but I've also seen this. It's very-very-very extremely rare, but it does happen. I took notice of this, because my strategy is heavily based on this ability (especially in Ground Assault). And no, he had no daze, and yes, there were other Jedi on the battlefield.

I was thinking more after he gets beaten, sort of sits down and unwraps a burger. Kind of a ‘what a workout’ vibe. Extra bonus: CG adds a sound effect of him going ‘nom nom nom’ as he eats.

I think the issue here is that we are arguing over the definition of the term ‘bonus turn’. And I would argue that it is most likely that there are different descriptions for different toons principally because the aggregate of the character descriptions do not somehow constitute some kind of legal document that has its own appendix with every term defined. Since each of these characters have come out at different times, the devs have chosen to describe the mechanics as they felt, in the moment.

Possibly scuba could weigh in on this one. He seems to have access to the coding. If anything would provide a precise definiton - that would be it.

Also, I’m still pretty sure in the last ground war assault battle, that I had cases where B2s managed to sneak in between GMY’s turns. I’m still guessing that the same mechanic is being used in all cases for simplicity.

Last thought: isn’t the whole ‘Han shoots first’ thing more of fan blowback? Isn’t the official Lucasfilm stance (and thus Disney & CG) that Greedo shout first???

"BubbaFett;c-1648701" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1648676" wrote:

"Waqui;c-1648633" wrote:
@Kyno

Gaining a bonus turn is defined as gaining 100% TM according to you. So, when B2, JKA, Biggs etc. gain 100% TM through their abilities, why is a different wording used? Why doesn't their description say that they gain a bonus turn? It's inconsistent. Similar behaviour should be described with similar wording. Using a different wording suggests a different behaviour.

I'm not saying, that Han behaves wrong. I'm saying, he doesn't behave as described.

On a side note:
You never answered my question about GMY. When he takes an immediate bonus turn, does he simply immediately gain 100% TM? Or is he guaranteed to always perform the next action even if another toon also has 100% TM? I'm curious.

I see nothing in his description that says he should go before someone else that is at 100% TM at the start of the encounter. But we can agree to disagree and maybe they will chnage this to be more clear.

1- Its a BONUS turn that is irrespective of even his own turn meter according to the wording, the term "turn meter" is not even present in the description whatsoever.

2- Said bonus turn is to take place at the start of the encounter.... Once another toon takes a turn it is, by definition, no longer the start of the encounter.....

If the intention was for him to get 100% turn meter at the start, then they should have written it that way.... Something along the lines of "At the start of the encounter, Han gains 100% turn meter, ignores taunt and his first shot inflicts a one turn stun that can't be resisted"

It's not called "shoots first" for nothing.... I think you are likely correct in regards to this being part of the typically skewed event mechanics....

1- please show me him taking his turn without 100% TM. Also acceptable, any one in any game mode taking a turn without 100% TM. It doesnt exist, because a turn is initiated by 100% TM, regardless of the situation.

2- there are many actions that happen "at the start of an encounter", why should Hans override any others?

If the intention was for him to take the first action or use his alibi before anyone else they should have and could have worded it that way. But they didnt. If they have that intention they should reword it to state that intention, much like how they reworded GMY, and made Thrawns actions match his specific description.

The title is not the description nor is it used in the description. If it was, he may still not shoot first in a han v han team. ( FYI, the universe will implode, trying to figure out which Han shot first.)

"BubbaFett;c-1648743" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1648734" wrote:

"BubbaFett;c-1648701" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1648676" wrote:

"Waqui;c-1648633" wrote:
@Kyno

Gaining a bonus turn is defined as gaining 100% TM according to you. So, when B2, JKA, Biggs etc. gain 100% TM through their abilities, why is a different wording used? Why doesn't their description say that they gain a bonus turn? It's inconsistent. Similar behaviour should be described with similar wording. Using a different wording suggests a different behaviour.

I'm not saying, that Han behaves wrong. I'm saying, he doesn't behave as described.

On a side note:
You never answered my question about GMY. When he takes an immediate bonus turn, does he simply immediately gain 100% TM? Or is he guaranteed to always perform the next action even if another toon also has 100% TM? I'm curious.

I see nothing in his description that says he should go before someone else that is at 100% TM at the start of the encounter. But we can agree to disagree and maybe they will chnage this to be more clear.

1- Its a BONUS turn that is irrespective of even his own turn meter according to the wording, the term "turn meter" is not even present in the description whatsoever.

2- Said bonus turn is to take place at the start of the encounter.... Once another toon takes a turn it is, by definition, no longer the start of the encounter.....

If the intention was for him to get 100% turn meter at the start, then they should have written it that way.... Something along the lines of "At the start of the encounter, Han gains 100% turn meter, ignores taunt and his first shot inflicts a one turn stun that can't be resisted"

It's not called "shoots first" for nothing.... I think you are likely correct in regards to this being part of the typically skewed event mechanics....

1- please show me him taking his turn without 100% TM. Also acceptable, any one in any game mode taking a turn without 100% TM. It doesnt exist, because a turn is initiated by 100% TM, regardless of the situation.

2- there are many actions that happen "at the start of an encounter", why should Hans override any others?

If the intention was for him to take the first action or use his alibi before anyone else they should have and could have worded it that way. But they didnt. If they have that intention they should reword it to state that intention, much like how they reworded GMY, and made Thrawns actions match his specific description.

The title is not the description nor is it used in the description. If it was, he may still not shoot first in a han v han team. ( FYI, the universe will implode, trying to figure out which Han shot first.)

His actions should override the others because the start of the battle only occurs once.... sure, other abilities also come into effect at the start, but none of them are damage dealers like shoots first.....

Han getting 100% TM at the start is not proof of anything but lazy programming that doesn't match the description of the ability..... Let's remember that han is an old school toon..... He just likely has never been updated.... It's very likely that just giving him 100% to worked back in the day..... It doesn't now...

I'm not saying it shouldn't, but if they intend to do that they need to put that in the description just like they did for GMY.

Any toon entering the encounter with 100% TM, should get their turn first, it's not just buffs and other things. This is why they would need to make it more specific of the intent is for him to always go first unless its against another Han.

It's not lazy, its smart, why reinvent the wheel, but if this was the intention then they should make it so and change the description to match.

"Kyno;c-1648440" wrote:

"DarkHelmet1138;c-1648409" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1648399" wrote:

"Lightsabermon;c-1648326" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1648075" wrote:

"Darknesswon;c-1648071" wrote:
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.

100% agree.

it doesnt' state he gets the first action. it only states he gets a bonus turn, which is 100% TM. they should word it differently if they have the intent of making him take the first action. much like how they changed GMY description.

He gets a bonus turn at the START. Not the after everyone else goes. Also,

"Darknesswon;c-1648071" wrote:
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.

Is the start of the encounter the 4th turn?
Finally, i want to see nihileus eating a cheeseburger

Multiple things happen at the start of the encounter, where is it stated that Han is the first to go at the start of the encounter. It's not stated that way, which is why I am just saying I think its WAD. I would love for it to be different and only coin toss with another Han, but they would have to explain the intent in some way different than the current description.

Now I cant get it out of my head, he turns around in the opening scene for the Sith raid, and takes an aggressive bite of a hamburger, throws it down and points his saber at you.

I think they need to address this either way. Even if it is just to change the description. If the bonus turn is just 100% tm they should just change it to say that.

Agreed, but there is no other way in game to take a turn, so bonus turn and 100% are 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

"DarkHelmet1138;c-1648456" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1648440" wrote:

"DarkHelmet1138;c-1648409" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1648399" wrote:

"Lightsabermon;c-1648326" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1648075" wrote:

"Darknesswon;c-1648071" wrote:
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.

100% agree.

it doesnt' state he gets the first action. it only states he gets a bonus turn, which is 100% TM. they should word it differently if they have the intent of making him take the first action. much like how they changed GMY description.

He gets a bonus turn at the START. Not the after everyone else goes. Also,

"Darknesswon;c-1648071" wrote:
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.

Is the start of the encounter the 4th turn?
Finally, i want to see nihileus eating a cheeseburger

Multiple things happen at the start of the encounter, where is it stated that Han is the first to go at the start of the encounter. It's not stated that way, which is why I am just saying I think its WAD. I would love for it to be different and only coin toss with another Han, but they would have to explain the intent in some way different than the current description.

Now I cant get it out of my head, he turns around in the opening scene for the Sith raid, and takes an aggressive bite of a hamburger, throws it down and points his saber at you.

I think they need to address this either way. Even if it is just to change the description. If the bonus turn is just 100% tm they should just change it to say that.

Agreed, but there is no other way in game to take a turn, so bonus turn and 100% are 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

They have a way to bypass the coin flip though as seen with the change made to thrawn. If they worded it as gains 100% tm at the start of the encounter, it would make it clear that they don't intend him to bypass the coin flip.

"Kyno;c-1648512" wrote:

"FailingCrab;c-1648475" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1648440" wrote:

"DarkHelmet1138;c-1648409" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1648399" wrote:

"Lightsabermon;c-1648326" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1648075" wrote:

"Darknesswon;c-1648071" wrote:
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.

100% agree.

it doesnt' state he gets the first action. it only states he gets a bonus turn, which is 100% TM. they should word it differently if they have the intent of making him take the first action. much like how they changed GMY description.

He gets a bonus turn at the START. Not the after everyone else goes. Also,

"Darknesswon;c-1648071" wrote:
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.

Is the start of the encounter the 4th turn?
Finally, i want to see nihileus eating a cheeseburger

Multiple things happen at the start of the encounter, where is it stated that Han is the first to go at the start of the encounter. It's not stated that way, which is why I am just saying I think its WAD. I would love for it to be different and only coin toss with another Han, but they would have to explain the intent in some way different than the current description.

Now I cant get it out of my head, he turns around in the opening scene for the Sith raid, and takes an aggressive bite of a hamburger, throws it down and points his saber at you.

I think they need to address this either way. Even if it is just to change the description. If the bonus turn is just 100% tm they should just change it to say that.

Agreed, but there is no other way in game to take a turn, so bonus turn and 100% are 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

Thrawn and Yoda's kits both prove this point incorrect.

Those kits have specific wording to do as such. Hans kit does not.

Kyno, brother, they clearly have a way to make him go first.

"Kyno;c-1648676" wrote:

"Waqui;c-1648633" wrote:
@Kyno

Gaining a bonus turn is defined as gaining 100% TM according to you. So, when B2, JKA, Biggs etc. gain 100% TM through their abilities, why is a different wording used? Why doesn't their description say that they gain a bonus turn? It's inconsistent. Similar behaviour should be described with similar wording. Using a different wording suggests a different behaviour.

I'm not saying, that Han behaves wrong. I'm saying, he doesn't behave as described.

On a side note:
You never answered my question about GMY. When he takes an immediate bonus turn, does he simply immediately gain 100% TM? Or is he guaranteed to always perform the next action even if another toon also has 100% TM? I'm curious.

Yes I did. GMY has a description that allows him to avoid the coin toss.

GMY might have the wording but that also means his mechanics are broken, as he doesn’t always take the next turn, as evident in some of these special events.

"Kyno;c-1648676" wrote:

"Waqui;c-1648633" wrote:
@Kyno

Gaining a bonus turn is defined as gaining 100% TM according to you. So, when B2, JKA, Biggs etc. gain 100% TM through their abilities, why is a different wording used? Why doesn't their description say that they gain a bonus turn? It's inconsistent. Similar behaviour should be described with similar wording. Using a different wording suggests a different behaviour.

I'm not saying, that Han behaves wrong. I'm saying, he doesn't behave as described.

On a side note:
You never answered my question about GMY. When he takes an immediate bonus turn, does he simply immediately gain 100% TM? Or is he guaranteed to always perform the next action even if another toon also has 100% TM? I'm curious.

Yes I did. GMY has a description that allows him to avoid the coin toss.

If taking a bonus turn means gaining 100% TM, then gaining an immediate bonus turn would indicate gaining 100% turn meter immediately. And you don't see any inconsistency here, now that GMY avoids the coin toss and performs his actions with no interference from anything, while Han doesn't? The description is way off (the description only. The behaviour is fine). It's inconsistent. It always was. It still is.

"BubbaFett;c-1648783" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1648758" wrote:

"BubbaFett;c-1648743" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1648734" wrote:

"BubbaFett;c-1648701" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1648676" wrote:

"Waqui;c-1648633" wrote:
@Kyno

Gaining a bonus turn is defined as gaining 100% TM according to you. So, when B2, JKA, Biggs etc. gain 100% TM through their abilities, why is a different wording used? Why doesn't their description say that they gain a bonus turn? It's inconsistent. Similar behaviour should be described with similar wording. Using a different wording suggests a different behaviour.

I'm not saying, that Han behaves wrong. I'm saying, he doesn't behave as described.

On a side note:
You never answered my question about GMY. When he takes an immediate bonus turn, does he simply immediately gain 100% TM? Or is he guaranteed to always perform the next action even if another toon also has 100% TM? I'm curious.

I see nothing in his description that says he should go before someone else that is at 100% TM at the start of the encounter. But we can agree to disagree and maybe they will chnage this to be more clear.

1- Its a BONUS turn that is irrespective of even his own turn meter according to the wording, the term "turn meter" is not even present in the description whatsoever.

2- Said bonus turn is to take place at the start of the encounter.... Once another toon takes a turn it is, by definition, no longer the start of the encounter.....

If the intention was for him to get 100% turn meter at the start, then they should have written it that way.... Something along the lines of "At the start of the encounter, Han gains 100% turn meter, ignores taunt and his first shot inflicts a one turn stun that can't be resisted"

It's not called "shoots first" for nothing.... I think you are likely correct in regards to this being part of the typically skewed event mechanics....

1- please show me him taking his turn without 100% TM. Also acceptable, any one in any game mode taking a turn without 100% TM. It doesnt exist, because a turn is initiated by 100% TM, regardless of the situation.

2- there are many actions that happen "at the start of an encounter", why should Hans override any others?

If the intention was for him to take the first action or use his alibi before anyone else they should have and could have worded it that way. But they didnt. If they have that intention they should reword it to state that intention, much like how they reworded GMY, and made Thrawns actions match his specific description.

The title is not the description nor is it used in the description. If it was, he may still not shoot first in a han v han team. ( FYI, the universe will implode, trying to figure out which Han shot first.)

His actions should override the others because the start of the battle only occurs once.... sure, other abilities also come into effect at the start, but none of them are damage dealers like shoots first.....

Han getting 100% TM at the start is not proof of anything but lazy programming that doesn't match the description of the ability..... Let's remember that han is an old school toon..... He just likely has never been updated.... It's very likely that just giving him 100% to worked back in the day..... It doesn't now...

I'm not saying it shouldn't, but if they intend to do that they need to put that in the description just like they did for GMY.

Any toon entering the encounter with 100% TM, should get their turn first, it's not just buffs and other things. This is why they would need to make it more specific of the intent is for him to always go first unless its against another Han.

It's not lazy, its smart, why reinvent the wheel, but if this was the intention then they should make it so and change the description to match.

So where else.in the game does han not shoot first other than in these jacked up events? Are you really trying to say han was never intended to truly shoot first?

TW f.ex. if the opponent already had full TM from a previous match.
When moving to a new wave if other team members than Han has 100% TM already.

"Kyno;c-1648758" wrote:

"BubbaFett;c-1648743" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1648734" wrote:

"BubbaFett;c-1648701" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1648676" wrote:

"Waqui;c-1648633" wrote:
@Kyno

Gaining a bonus turn is defined as gaining 100% TM according to you. So, when B2, JKA, Biggs etc. gain 100% TM through their abilities, why is a different wording used? Why doesn't their description say that they gain a bonus turn? It's inconsistent. Similar behaviour should be described with similar wording. Using a different wording suggests a different behaviour.

I'm not saying, that Han behaves wrong. I'm saying, he doesn't behave as described.

On a side note:
You never answered my question about GMY. When he takes an immediate bonus turn, does he simply immediately gain 100% TM? Or is he guaranteed to always perform the next action even if another toon also has 100% TM? I'm curious.

I see nothing in his description that says he should go before someone else that is at 100% TM at the start of the encounter. But we can agree to disagree and maybe they will chnage this to be more clear.

1- Its a BONUS turn that is irrespective of even his own turn meter according to the wording, the term "turn meter" is not even present in the description whatsoever.

2- Said bonus turn is to take place at the start of the encounter.... Once another toon takes a turn it is, by definition, no longer the start of the encounter.....

If the intention was for him to get 100% turn meter at the start, then they should have written it that way.... Something along the lines of "At the start of the encounter, Han gains 100% turn meter, ignores taunt and his first shot inflicts a one turn stun that can't be resisted"

It's not called "shoots first" for nothing.... I think you are likely correct in regards to this being part of the typically skewed event mechanics....

1- please show me him taking his turn without 100% TM. Also acceptable, any one in any game mode taking a turn without 100% TM. It doesnt exist, because a turn is initiated by 100% TM, regardless of the situation.

2- there are many actions that happen "at the start of an encounter", why should Hans override any others?

If the intention was for him to take the first action or use his alibi before anyone else they should have and could have worded it that way. But they didnt. If they have that intention they should reword it to state that intention, much like how they reworded GMY, and made Thrawns actions match his specific description.

The title is not the description nor is it used in the description. If it was, he may still not shoot first in a han v han team. ( FYI, the universe will implode, trying to figure out which Han shot first.)

His actions should override the others because the start of the battle only occurs once.... sure, other abilities also come into effect at the start, but none of them are damage dealers like shoots first.....

Han getting 100% TM at the start is not proof of anything but lazy programming that doesn't match the description of the ability..... Let's remember that han is an old school toon..... He just likely has never been updated.... It's very likely that just giving him 100% to worked back in the day..... It doesn't now...

I'm not saying it shouldn't, but if they intend to do that they need to put that in the description just like they did for GMY.

Only.... they didn't. GMY's description translates into : GMY gains an immediate 100% turn meter meter.