"Tuftedpaper85;838791" wrote:
"JacenRoe;838667" wrote:
"Tuftedpaper85;838663" wrote:
"BrianBuchanans;838488" wrote:
"Tuftedpaper85;838463" wrote:
"JacenRoe;838373" wrote:
"NicolasRage;838282" wrote:
"Wildcats1203;838270" wrote:
I don't see how people can argue that Chaze is balanced after the 3* and 4* Chaze 2v5 video. No two characters should be able to beat an arena team. Five ugnaughts should be able to beat a team of two because it's TWO AGAINST FIVE. If somebody loses to just the two of them using a strong Empire team, they need to be nerfed. You shouldn't need a "counter" just to beat two characters using five characters.
Exactly the original point I was wanting to convey. Anyone that thinks that is balanced is insane and doesn't understand the meaning of balance.
It's NOT balanced. But it's the direction the game is headed. Very powerful synergy. There are other very strong synergies people are still farming up. The game is constantly changing, and Chaze is just the first, and most widely held pair of the new wave of synergy to come.
"TemperTantrumRen;838281" wrote:
For those comparing Chaze to Rey, there is one major difference. Rey couldn't take out fully maxed 7* toons when she was only 4* - Chaze can.
Rey WAS arena viable for elite teams at 4-5* and gear 8-9 amidst max toons at gear 10. I know, because I used her at that level. The first time she one shot killed a tank from full health (40k) I knew she was a bit out of balance, but the game changed around her. Not the other way around. This is going to be the same situation.
"Wildcats1203;838270" wrote:
I don't see how people can argue that Chaze is balanced after the 3* and 4* Chaze 2v5 video. No two characters should be able to beat an arena team. Five ugnaughts should be able to beat a team of two because it's TWO AGAINST FIVE. If somebody loses to just the two of them using a strong Empire team, they need to be nerfed. You shouldn't need a "counter" just to beat two characters using five characters.
2 toons with good synergy should absolutely be able to beat a random assortment of toons that don't fit together being controlled by brainless AI. Especially if it's a bunch of Ugnaughts. LOL
Factions should be POWERFUL together, and random groups will get murdered by them. You should HAVE to have another strong group built around another factions weakness to beat them, and your powerful faction should be just as powerful together as long as they have a glaring weakness that another faction can exploit. Chaze is just a foregleam of where we're headed. They will own some teams, and get owned by others. That's already started, but not enough people have the toons to do that yet.
"Tuftedpaper85;838245" wrote:
This free toon that keeps getting mentioned is probably the hardest in the game to gear up and it'll take a free to play player probably around three months.
... So what? That is absolutely on purpose. Everyone takes time to get. Getting them faster is the advantage some pay for, and that's how the devs make a living. If you want to farm one team quickly and easily and them be dominant forever you're playing the wrong game.
I've been at this a year. I've been +1 in arena, then been left behind by a meta shift, then clawed back up again with a new strategy that took months to implement. Get used to it. "This team needs toons I don't have to beat them," isn't a good argument for nerfing them. Multiple counters exist that not just beat them, but clobber them. Get them. Just know that by spring there will be a new meta to chase. Lucy will keep moving the football every time you get close. (I'm banking on FO and resistance being OP when episode 8 comes out late this year.) And that cycle will continue as long as the devs can massage money out of us. Learn to live with that.
The argument that "these toons have two counters so farm them or lose 50% of your matches to them" isn't a good argument that they're okay in their current state.
I get that the meta shifts and I've had to adjust my farming before to stay competitive. However, there's a big difference between Rey getting replaced as the glass cannon of choice by wedge and Biggs and introducing toons that have three strong moves and two strong uniques while 90% of the toons in the game don't come close to those kind of skills.
It's definitely different. But the spread of abilities between Chirrut and Baze is extremely wide, which actually weakens them in a lot of ways that a fairly counterable. Buff block or shock Baze to prevent taunt/retribution from coming back. Buff your team and don't run full Empire to turn his first special into just a mass dispel with decent cooldown. Ability block Chirrut to make him relatively useless. Keep a dispeller like B2 to keep him from doing massive damage and healing. Run Vader Zeta so he can't clear DoTs.
Empire ravages teams that can't do Tenacity Up or cleanse. But we don't complain about that strength—instead we run T-Uppers and cleansers. Same here.
So they're balanced because they do too many good things? You've set really the bar low there!
No. They're NOT balanced. They are beatable though. And they are what balanced will look like soon. But for now they're new and scary. Also they are NOT getting a nerf.
So if they're what balanced will look like soon, then what does that mean for the other 80 characters in the game? Releasing toons like this is a indirect nerf to the toons you've already been farming
... Yes. It is an indirect nerf to make you be disappointed with your old toons so you'll buy the new shiny ones. Otherwise known as the SWGOH business plan.
"Tuftedpaper85;838789" wrote:
"BrianBuchanans;838774" wrote:
"Tuftedpaper85;838663" wrote:
"BrianBuchanans;838488" wrote:
"Tuftedpaper85;838463" wrote:
"JacenRoe;838373" wrote:
"NicolasRage;838282" wrote:
"Wildcats1203;838270" wrote:
I don't see how people can argue that Chaze is balanced after the 3* and 4* Chaze 2v5 video. No two characters should be able to beat an arena team. Five ugnaughts should be able to beat a team of two because it's TWO AGAINST FIVE. If somebody loses to just the two of them using a strong Empire team, they need to be nerfed. You shouldn't need a "counter" just to beat two characters using five characters.
Exactly the original point I was wanting to convey. Anyone that thinks that is balanced is insane and doesn't understand the meaning of balance.
It's NOT balanced. But it's the direction the game is headed. Very powerful synergy. There are other very strong synergies people are still farming up. The game is constantly changing, and Chaze is just the first, and most widely held pair of the new wave of synergy to come.
"TemperTantrumRen;838281" wrote:
For those comparing Chaze to Rey, there is one major difference. Rey couldn't take out fully maxed 7* toons when she was only 4* - Chaze can.
Rey WAS arena viable for elite teams at 4-5* and gear 8-9 amidst max toons at gear 10. I know, because I used her at that level. The first time she one shot killed a tank from full health (40k) I knew she was a bit out of balance, but the game changed around her. Not the other way around. This is going to be the same situation.
"Wildcats1203;838270" wrote:
I don't see how people can argue that Chaze is balanced after the 3* and 4* Chaze 2v5 video. No two characters should be able to beat an arena team. Five ugnaughts should be able to beat a team of two because it's TWO AGAINST FIVE. If somebody loses to just the two of them using a strong Empire team, they need to be nerfed. You shouldn't need a "counter" just to beat two characters using five characters.
2 toons with good synergy should absolutely be able to beat a random assortment of toons that don't fit together being controlled by brainless AI. Especially if it's a bunch of Ugnaughts. LOL
Factions should be POWERFUL together, and random groups will get murdered by them. You should HAVE to have another strong group built around another factions weakness to beat them, and your powerful faction should be just as powerful together as long as they have a glaring weakness that another faction can exploit. Chaze is just a foregleam of where we're headed. They will own some teams, and get owned by others. That's already started, but not enough people have the toons to do that yet.
"Tuftedpaper85;838245" wrote:
This free toon that keeps getting mentioned is probably the hardest in the game to gear up and it'll take a free to play player probably around three months.
... So what? That is absolutely on purpose. Everyone takes time to get. Getting them faster is the advantage some pay for, and that's how the devs make a living. If you want to farm one team quickly and easily and them be dominant forever you're playing the wrong game.
I've been at this a year. I've been +1 in arena, then been left behind by a meta shift, then clawed back up again with a new strategy that took months to implement. Get used to it. "This team needs toons I don't have to beat them," isn't a good argument for nerfing them. Multiple counters exist that not just beat them, but clobber them. Get them. Just know that by spring there will be a new meta to chase. Lucy will keep moving the football every time you get close. (I'm banking on FO and resistance being OP when episode 8 comes out late this year.) And that cycle will continue as long as the devs can massage money out of us. Learn to live with that.
The argument that "these toons have two counters so farm them or lose 50% of your matches to them" isn't a good argument that they're okay in their current state.
I get that the meta shifts and I've had to adjust my farming before to stay competitive. However, there's a big difference between Rey getting replaced as the glass cannon of choice by wedge and Biggs and introducing toons that have three strong moves and two strong uniques while 90% of the toons in the game don't come close to those kind of skills.
It's definitely different. But the spread of abilities between Chirrut and Baze is extremely wide, which actually weakens them in a lot of ways that a fairly counterable. Buff block or shock Baze to prevent taunt/retribution from coming back. Buff your team and don't run full Empire to turn his first special into just a mass dispel with decent cooldown. Ability block Chirrut to make him relatively useless. Keep a dispeller like B2 to keep him from doing massive damage and healing. Run Vader Zeta so he can't clear DoTs.
Empire ravages teams that can't do Tenacity Up or cleanse. But we don't complain about that strength—instead we run T-Uppers and cleansers. Same here.
So they're balanced because they do too many good things? You've set really the bar low there!
sorry did I say they were balanced? no. I said they were beatable and that you can use that weakness to your advantage. take notes and stay in your lane.
Just because they're beatable doesn't mean they're okay. What exactly is their weakness? Lots of heal over times? There's only two characters that can take advantage of this and one requires a zeta and the other required a complete rework to do so? How do you not see the issues with this?
Geo Spy by the way is another toon that is free and does more damage by stripping buffs. No zeta or rework needed. And it's true that's only 3 toons, but they are 3 toons that specializes in exploiting their weakness to do spectacularly embarrassing 100k death blows.
Chaze is actually vulnerable to a variety of toons and strategies most free, and not requiring Zetas. B2, Ventress, Sun Fac, TFP, Ani, Sid, EP, and Maul are all other toons that can be used against them in different combinations to beat them more humanely. There are many more. Figure it out. Or keep crying about it.
