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Player_tjsnk0t4's avatar
Player_tjsnk0t4
9 years ago

Suggestion to fix the Secondary Speed Mod Fiasco without changing the mods

As we all know, there are many secondary speed mods that have amounts that would only be intended if you have no clue or desire to balance the game. It would take a lot of work to rebalance those mods and I suggest that it isn't even necessary. The best way to fix the secondary speed mods is to fix the AI of tanks to not taunt first. Simple fix. Currently there are teams that can't be beat on defense that consist of double tanks with ridiculous speed mods (with TM manipulation) and 2-3 AOE toons droping 10-16K AOEs on each enemy. This results in many dead before they can even move (This goes against the design philosophy and therefore must be changed immediately). This has created a situation in my shard that nobody even tries to attack number one anymore because the sped up double tank TM manipulation is an instant "I WIN". My solution is simple and elegant without making major changes. Make Poe and STH shoot on their first turn if they move before the enemy team. Simple and elegent. If this could be changed by Thursday, that would be great.. Thanks:)
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  • Itscaptainphasm's avatar
    Itscaptainphasm
    9 years ago
    I don't think the devs would do anything because if they did the forums would riot about how there mods are different. Look at Poe everyone complained they nerfed him and then a new wave of anti nerf Poe people emerged and wrecked havoc on the forums.
  • Maraxus2016's avatar
    Maraxus2016
    9 years ago
    "tRRRey;631840" wrote:
    "scuba;631736" wrote:
    "RAYRAY;631722" wrote:
    "scuba;631711" wrote:
    "RAYRAY;631009" wrote:


    1. Secondary mod speeds capped at 5 and no other changes to mods would make the top speed secondary available to everyone, I don't want them to make it hard to get 5 speed secondaries.


    So what your saying is nerf the mods that others have paid for, or gotten lucky with, but not the ones you have with a +5 speed secondary and make them available to everyone. Got it.


    Nope, you aren't understanding me. My first thought was to change how the AI works on defense. Nobody likes that idea. What I am saying is the speed stat has the potential of throwing off balance because it is so much more powerful than any other possible secondary stat on mods. If it has to remain, it should be brought down to a level where it isn't so reliant on RNG. I would prefer they remove it completely as a secondary stat or make it percentage based capped at 2% per mod. Remember when Poe and the speed stat was changed because games were decided by whose Poe went first? Well this isn't much different. Only now it takes thousands of dollars and a lot of luck to get the speed mods necessary to compete. It's going to have to be addressed.


    Here is the problem. People have paid money for these. I won't use the forbidden "r" word but it will be a **** storm again if they just removed the stat, or made them all the same.

    IMO the most that would happen if they "nerf" them is proportional reduction across the board 20 become 5, 5 become 1. The 5 secondary will still be as hard to find as the 20 are now so the same players still have the same speed advantage. Same thing if they went % based.


    No they wouldn't have the same advantage because then speed leads and speed mod sets would matter more.


    Mods were brought to the game to bring diversity, and arena has never been that much diverse. Excellent job by cg

    Mod set and primaries are a very small part of customization, what makes it full and allows a lot of flexibility with arena squads are the secondaries... If it's semantics that bug you... Consider secondaries as other primaries ...Problem solved!

    If you want to nullify mod impact, go back to having almost no customization at all, and go back to the era where all teams where qgj/old Ben Rey RG gs sthan... Well you probably are playing the wrong game...

    Tetris has the same kind of customization and diversity ppl ranting about mods seem to want in a game... Maybe that's what they should be playing
  • anonidude's avatar
    anonidude
    Seasoned Newcomer
    9 years ago
    Maybe if they balanced the game where faster toons suffered a damage nerf and slow toon got a damage boost....it might even out in the end.

    Wait.....what was that? They did that already?
  • Revenans's avatar
    Revenans
    9 years ago
    "Maraxus;631843" wrote:
    "RAYRAY;631686" wrote:
    "Maraxus;631378" wrote:
    "RAYRAY;630907" wrote:
    "Darth_Jay77;630741" wrote:

    1. We need a smarter AI, not dumb it down; it's already on the verge of being "special needs"
    2. I think changing tank AI to NOT taunt would be a huge mistake, huge
    3. Yes secondary stats are superior compared to set bonuses, this should be changed somehow. Perhaps a mild reduction in secondary stats and a meaningful buff to set bonuses (e.g. you want faster characters, buy speed mods, not health mods with huge secondary speed stats)
    4. Rex and Yoda's AI needs an update to use Squad Discipline / Battle Meditation first and that will help counteract some of the speed Old Ben teams along with other control elements like EP.



    1. OK Fair enough.
    2. On the surface I agree, but it is the taunt first that makes the team I mentioned an instant win on defense 9/10 times.
    3. I agree 100% with this. I suggest a much more than "mild" reductions in secondary stats, specifically speed. Speed should be capped at 3-5 per mod as a secondary stat or removed altogether.
    4. I understand what you are saying but no other team is a balance issue like the double tanks speed AOE team is. It breaks the game and needs to be addressed somehow.


    You guys complain too much.

    Use Rex lead and watch aoe teams melt... Or use droids as someone mentioned before or used your own Biggs + Anakin + B2 to gain tm and disrupt chain of action or use a number of other viable strategies...

    Tldr be creative instead of blaming the game.


    Ok be honest, my understanding is that you run one of these teams. (Wedge, Poe, anakin, STH and lando). How many times do you have to battle to maintain 1st? If you run the same team as doktor shin I would guess between zero and 1. Be honest.


    I do not run wiggs team , and am at first spot in my shard for a few days in a row, and there are some wiggs team...

    I just gotta think of solutions to beat them... With more than 75 toons available in game each with very specific skills, u just need a bit of creativity but it's not that hard...

    Let's be real here. Not every player has access to that many characters, not only that but some of the best characters are gated by high dollar cost, then the matter of gearing them which requires some luck and money. The team combinations change frequently enough that this isn't always practical or feasible. So to say "be creative it's not that hard" is garbage. I don't agree whatsoever with the OP's solution but your post isn't helpful either. I'm sure you've spent plenty of money on this game to have your full roster, but that doesn't mean you can say "everything is fine shut up and l2p". There are issues with balance in this game and speed is one of the biggest culprits... If not, then a heck of a lot more characters would be viable. Some of us have to spend a lot of money on his game for it to be successful but that doesn't mean it should be balanced around owning 75 maxed out characters.
  • QuiksliverUK's avatar
    QuiksliverUK
    9 years ago
    Speed secondaries do need to be balanced, there really is no arguing that. No other secondary stat is so high compared to its value as a primary stat or the set bonus the related set gets.

    And people having spent money, time or effort on a thing is no reason to not balance it. Balance is about what's good for the game - currently mods with high speed secondaries are clearly the best mods in the game by a long way; that needs to change.

    Of course if this does happen it needs to be proportionally changed similarly to how the health and def flat primaries were rebalanced before. The new values should be similar to the increases gained from other secondaries: <1000 health or <10% def is sensible and doesn't ruin intended character design; something that amounts to a 20% speed boost per mod even to fast characters is way too much.
  • Aerendhil67's avatar
    Aerendhil67
    9 years ago
    We all play by the same rules, as imbalanced as they seem to be.
    The Lottery effect is what's annoying.
  • QuiksliverUK's avatar
    QuiksliverUK
    9 years ago
    "aerendhil;632035" wrote:
    We all play by the same rules, as imbalanced as they seem to be.
    The Lottery effect is what's annoying.


    It's not the imbalance between players that is the problem - it is the imbalance between the strength of the attributes. Speed has become a much more deciding factor than anything else and this is why it needs to be brought into line with other stats like offence and defence.
  • askfortyseven's avatar
    askfortyseven
    9 years ago
    "DjangoQuik;632120" wrote:
    "aerendhil;632035" wrote:
    We all play by the same rules, as imbalanced as they seem to be.
    The Lottery effect is what's annoying.


    It's not the imbalance between players that is the problem - it is the imbalance between the strength of the attributes. Speed has become a much more deciding factor than anything else and this is why it needs to be brought into line with other stats like offence and defence.


    It just goes in circles. It was speed back when Poe was king, then we had the dodge era, after they deliberately killed those we are moving back to speed. The funny/sad thing is, if this breaks, we will likely end up with dodge again, or counter, once those mods are released. Dooku lead with everyone stacked on +dodge? Counter team with everyone stacked on +counter, in an era when people are using AOE? lol
  • QuiksliverUK's avatar
    QuiksliverUK
    9 years ago
    "Petrelli81;632130" wrote:
    "DjangoQuik;632120" wrote:
    "aerendhil;632035" wrote:
    We all play by the same rules, as imbalanced as they seem to be.
    The Lottery effect is what's annoying.


    It's not the imbalance between players that is the problem - it is the imbalance between the strength of the attributes. Speed has become a much more deciding factor than anything else and this is why it needs to be brought into line with other stats like offence and defence.


    It just goes in circles. It was speed back when Poe was king, then we had the dodge era, after they deliberately killed those we are moving back to speed. The funny/sad thing is, if this breaks, we will likely end up with dodge again, or counter, once those mods are released. Dooku lead with everyone stacked on +dodge? Counter team with everyone stacked on +counter, in an era when people are using AOE? lol


    Again, the problem is not one character - the problem is the imbalance between the value of different attributes. A single mod with a high speed secondary can add upwards of 20% to a characters damage output, whereas no directly damage related mod attribute even at primary level provides such a boost, nor do any other mod attributes even get near that amount for survivabiity or utility for that matter.

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