Tenacity up should mirror Potency up

Make Potency Up "Next debuff is Unable to be Resisted" and be like advantage where it lasts 2 turns, but if you use it to apply a debuff on the first turn it goes away. But if your first turn you are stunned/don't apply any debuffs it's not used up.

Couldn't agree more with the OP... and imo its the reason why we're seeing issues around toons such as Rex

"slickdealer;d-113523" wrote:
If you are not aware, these buffs do not match. Potency Up provides a flat 50% potency boost that is additive with your character sheet potency.

Tenacity Up is nearly a million, effectively preventing all debuffs.

Tenacity Up should also be 50%.

-Still an effective buff without directly nerfing any single toon.
-Opens up new teams based on debuffs.
-Would make Tenacity mods worthwhile. Right now there is no need for Tenacity if you have a toon with the buff.


Lots of cool toons have been added with stagger, daze, deathmark, etc. Give us an opportunity to use them!

+1

"NahWillis;c-1100416" wrote:
At the very least, there should still be a 15% chance to apply a debuff even with tenacity up, just as there is a 15% chance to resist even with tenacity down.

+1

"A_Junior91;c-1100438" wrote:
Totally agree, the buff shouldn't provide IMMUNITY to everything, just a greater chance of resist. The game will be much better.

+1

"scuba;c-1100493" wrote:

"REM;c-1100458" wrote:
Yeah, right now Tenacity Up is really debuff immunity.
I hope the devs will eventually consider making it at least possible to get some debuffs in, even if the odds are low.

The game would be a lot better.

Need a character that has AoE tenacity down.

An AOE tenacity down ability is a very interesting idea.

"UltimateSeaDog;c-1100514" wrote:
-1000000000000

Tenacity Up is the opposite of Tenacity Down which also changes stats by an equal amount.

Also, you are asking to change something existing for a year? Really?

Tenacity down is not a true opposite of tenacity up as shown below. Read my following comments below for my thoughts on the state of this.

"scuba;c-1100579" wrote:

"DeathStarRayGun;c-1100564" wrote:
It's really simple let me break it down for you guys.

Offense up: +50% offense
Offense down: -50% offense

Defense up: +50% defense
Defense down: -50% defense

Critical chance up: +25% critical chance
Critical chance down: -25% critical chance

Tenacity up: +10000000% tenacity (immune)
Tenacity down: -25% tenacity

Totally makes sense u see.

In correct you are

Let me Correctly break it down for you.
Tenacity up +999900% tenacity


Tenacity Down - 999900% tenacity

Let me also correct that for you scuba... from the battle I just did...

https://imgur.com/a/e2v1i

It only "minimizes" the chance of a resisting a debuff. Therefore, this is not the true opposite of tenacity up where it gives 100% chance to resist debuffs.

If tenacity up is guaranteed to prevent all debuffs (minus the few in the game that cannot be resisted) then tenacity down should guarantee all debuffs will land (except for those that are immune such as Jyn immune to stuns).

And for folks complaining about Nihilus force drain working through tenacity up...

https://imgur.com/a/THUla

Kozispoon said this IS WAI. The way it is currently set up seems like it should also have the frazing that this is not able to be to resisted. Much like other abilities are in the game. As it is, there's a 50% chance to increase / not increase ability cooldowns when no debuffs are present. Against a Rex, Chirrut, Yoda types set of teams, Nihilus would become useless if he still didn't have a 50% chance to increase. It's next to impossible to keep debuffs on the board against cleansing teams. Teams that seem to cleanse every other turn.

However, if for some reason they decide to change this which I would not agree with, then perhaps toons that cleanse such as Rex, Chirrut, GK should also have to go through a potency check to cleanse everything. If there needs to be a potency AND tenacity check to land a debuff, why not at least a potency check to clear the debuff?

"DarthSalsa;c-1100516" wrote:

"UltimateSeaDog;c-1100514" wrote:
-1000000000000

Tenacity Up is the opposite of Tenacity Down which also changes stats by an equal amount.

Also, you are asking to change something existing for a year? Really?

Zader fix.....

+100 !

"tmntguy86;c-1100690" wrote:

"slickdealer;d-113523" wrote:
If you are not aware, these buffs do not match. Potency Up provides a flat 50% potency boost that is additive with your character sheet potency.

Tenacity Up is nearly a million, effectively preventing all debuffs.

Tenacity Up should also be 50%.

-Still an effective buff without directly nerfing any single toon.
-Opens up new teams based on debuffs.
-Would make Tenacity mods worthwhile. Right now there is no need for Tenacity if you have a toon with the buff.


Lots of cool toons have been added with stagger, daze, deathmark, etc. Give us an opportunity to use them!

+1

"NahWillis;c-1100416" wrote:
At the very least, there should still be a 15% chance to apply a debuff even with tenacity up, just as there is a 15% chance to resist even with tenacity down.

+1

"A_Junior91;c-1100438" wrote:
Totally agree, the buff shouldn't provide IMMUNITY to everything, just a greater chance of resist. The game will be much better.

+1

"scuba;c-1100493" wrote:

"REM;c-1100458" wrote:
Yeah, right now Tenacity Up is really debuff immunity.
I hope the devs will eventually consider making it at least possible to get some debuffs in, even if the odds are low.

The game would be a lot better.

Need a character that has AoE tenacity down.

An AOE tenacity down ability is a very interesting idea.

"UltimateSeaDog;c-1100514" wrote:
-1000000000000

Tenacity Up is the opposite of Tenacity Down which also changes stats by an equal amount.

Also, you are asking to change something existing for a year? Really?

Tenacity down is not a true opposite of tenacity up as shown below. Read my following comments below for my thoughts on the state of this.

"scuba;c-1100579" wrote:

"DeathStarRayGun;c-1100564" wrote:
It's really simple let me break it down for you guys.

Offense up: +50% offense
Offense down: -50% offense

Defense up: +50% defense
Defense down: -50% defense

Critical chance up: +25% critical chance
Critical chance down: -25% critical chance

Tenacity up: +10000000% tenacity (immune)
Tenacity down: -25% tenacity

Totally makes sense u see.

In correct you are

Let me Correctly break it down for you.
Tenacity up +999900% tenacity


Tenacity Down - 999900% tenacity

Let me also correct that for you scuba... from the battle I just did...

https://imgur.com/a/e2v1i

It only "minimizes" the chance of a resisting a debuff. Therefore, this is not the true opposite of tenacity up where it gives 100% chance to resist debuffs.

If tenacity up is guaranteed to prevent all debuffs (minus the few in the game that cannot be resisted) then tenacity down should guarantee all debuffs will land (except for those that are immune such as Jyn immune to stuns).

And for folks complaining about Nihilus force drain working through tenacity up...

https://imgur.com/a/THUla

Kozispoon said this IS WAI. The way it is currently set up seems like it should also have the frazing that this is not able to be to resisted. Much like other abilities are in the game. As it is, there's a 50% chance to increase / not increase ability cooldowns when no debuffs are present. Against a Rex, Chirrut, Yoda types set of teams, Nihilus would become useless if he still didn't have a 50% chance to increase. It's next to impossible to keep debuffs on the board against cleansing teams. Teams that seem to cleanse every other turn.

However, if for some reason they decide to change this which I would not agree with, then perhaps toons that cleanse such as Rex, Chirrut, GK should also have to go through a potency check to cleanse everything. If there needs to be a potency AND tenacity check to land a debuff, why not at least a potency check to clear the debuff?

So you are asking to nerf EVERY meta cleanser in this game? Rex, Chirrut and GK all nerfed?

Please no.

Yoda needs a buff, not a nerf.

1) As it currently is, Tenacity Up is not an appropriate title for this ability. It provides so much Tenacity that you can not in good conscience call it an Up. It's virtually Unlimited Tenacity at this point.
2) You cannot even call it Debuff Immunity either, because it not only resists all Debuffs that can be resisted, it can also resist TMR and very soon, it can also resist Cooldown Increase (DT & DN).
3) Tenacity Down is mathematically the opposite of Tenacity Up, but subject to the minimum irreducible 15% Base Resist Chance, which effectively makes it NOT as good as Tenacity Up. If you design Tenacity Up to always resist debuffs, TMR and so on, then you should at least make Tenacity Down equal by always getting debuffed, TMR and so on.
4) You have multiple arena viable characters which give Tenacity Up to the entire team, but only 1 character who has a chance of AOE Tenacity Down(Dengar which you can judge for yourself if it is viable in Squad Arena anyway).

Last but not least, I have low expectations that anything will be done to remedy this imbalance. But enough whining seems to have brought at least some Dev attention to mechanics and in some cases, even changes to mechanics whether it's a nerf or bug fix or what you want to call it. I'm not calling for a nerf here, but I want it balanced, i.e. Make Tenacity Down functionally the real opposite of Tenacity Up, design more arena viable characters that can inflict AOE Tenacity Down.

If you think Tenacity up is mirrored by Tenacity down, just use it without cleansing pre-existing debuff on the characters. In my opinion this could be ok.
If I'm faster I will put dozens of debuffs on you. At your turn you'll just avoid any other incoming debuffs for your next turns.

Yoda is actually working as it is, am I correct? Nobody is unhappy with his behaviour.

Even though I frenquently use Rex lead team in Arena, I support this.

Double/Triple cleanse with as many buff immunity tenacity up is the bane of the game and one of the main reason diversity is so low. Every single team relying on debuff became arena-useless.

Give us +50% Tenacity instead of buff immunity, and make the Tenacity mods great again.

"Huatimus;c-1100791" wrote:
1) As it currently is, Tenacity Up is not an appropriate title for this ability. It provides so much Tenacity that you can not in good conscience call it an Up. It's virtually Unlimited Tenacity at this point.
2) You cannot even call it Debuff Immunity either, because it not only resists all Debuffs that can be resisted, it can also resist TMR and very soon, it can also resist Cooldown Increase (DT & DN).
3) Tenacity Down is mathematically the opposite of Tenacity Up, but subject to the minimum irreducible 15% Base Resist Chance, which effectively makes it NOT as good as Tenacity Up. If you design Tenacity Up to always resist debuffs, TMR and so on, then you should at least make Tenacity Down equal by always getting debuffed, TMR and so on.
4) You have multiple arena viable characters which give Tenacity Up to the entire team, but only 1 character who has a chance of AOE Tenacity Down(Dengar which you can judge for yourself if it is viable in Squad Arena anyway).

Last but not least, I have low expectations that anything will be done to remedy this imbalance. But enough whining seems to have brought at least some Dev attention to mechanics and in some cases, even changes to mechanics whether it's a nerf or bug fix or what you want to call it. I'm not calling for a nerf here, but I want it balanced, i.e. Make Tenacity Down functionally the real opposite of Tenacity Up, design more arena viable characters that can inflict AOE Tenacity Down.

finally some common sense. I agree 100% with you. It's not Ten Up that's the problem, it's the lack of Ten Down characters. IMO, Ten Down should apply below Ten Up but not show until Ten Up expires, like it used to, instead of negating tenacity Up altogether. But otherwise, maybe allow TFP to AoE Tenacity Down instead?