The nerf train is never gonna stop

"Crymsonkyng;170666" wrote:
Nonsense. Buffs to unused toons change the meta as much. RG is the perfect example. It will happen to other toons too to make them more viable. Unless a toon is game breaking like Poe was, nerfs aren't necessary

A buff to a DPS that isn't considered as good as GS is essentially a nerf to GS. He was the best DPS character, and now he isn't as viable as he once was.

Nonsense 30 more levels and ability increase change the meta.

Nerfs and buffs are necessary. Blizzard owns one of the most competitive pvp mmo and they nerf and buff classes every month at least.
When a hero is much better than the majority of heroes in game, then he needs a nerf. If a hero underperforms when compared to the majority of heroes then he needs a buff. Simple as that. But to judge who does what, it's up to CG. They have the data to know these things better than anyone.

"MeetraSurik;170820" wrote:

"Wildcats1203;170670" wrote:

"Crymsonkyng;170666" wrote:
Nonsense. Buffs to unused toons change the meta as much. RG is the perfect example. It will happen to other toons too to make them more viable. Unless a toon is game breaking like Poe was, nerfs aren't necessary

A buff to a DPS that isn't considered as good as GS is essentially a nerf to GS. He was the best DPS character, and now he isn't as viable as he once was.

That's specious logic. If GS is still the best dps in the game, what's changed?

My logic was that the character wasn't as good as GS, was buffed, and post-buff was better than GS. My bad.

I am disappoint. I was expecting a gif with a train plowing through the roster.

I say we nerf glass cannons next lol. Wait am I on the wrong list :*

"Wildcats1203;17752" wrote:
I see people complaining about others calling for nerfs all the time. But the truth is, no matter how balanced the game is nerfs will never stop. Nerfs mix up the meta. The absolute worst thing that can happen in a game like this is for the developers to not change up the meta. Sure, people love to have the top team, but after the same team wins consistently for more than a month or two, even the people that have that top team get bored. And when people get bored, they stop spending money. So yeah, the game is relatively balanced right now. But with the next update, the meta will change. A changing meta keeps the game interesting for top players, who also happen to be the top spenders. The nerfs will never stop, and if they do it means CG has given up on this game.

Your missing why ppl are sick of others crying for nerfs.
If a toon is legit OP then yes, the nerf bat is needed but when ppl have not even played enough to achieve endgame and know what a toon is like at endgame and have the experience to make an informed judgement of a toon the result is you get mid lvl players (as an example) facing Dooku when hes at his best and crying fir a nerf.
The issue is that the devs dont seem to be able to sort the valuable feedback from the misguided opinions. And thats what muddys the water and makes the devs jobs 10x harder.
The result is nerfs to toons that dont make sence, are too severe, or dont even address what could have been an issue in the first place.

If ppl calling fir nerfs had enough experience and understood what they were asking for from an endgame perspective it would not be anywhere close to as much ppl "crying about the crying".

My advice is, if your not endgame and have vast experience then your probably not in a position to form a knowledgeable opinion. Its better for you to ask for advice and help so you gather the proper info rather then just spouting off about how someone is OP and beeds a nerf.

I still say @Qeltar is 100% correct in repeatedly asking the devs to form a veteran/experienced "focus group" to discuss changes/ideas and help clear up the murky water that is the forum

It doesn't matter what is done. There will always be cries for nerf. At times, some toons legitimately need them. Often they don't. Devs are usually able to tell when something is legitimately in need of a nerf. They got many more tools at their disposal than the forums to base decisions.

Forming focus groups, test servers, all that stuff is great but has never stopped broken and bugged content or op toons from hitting live servers in any game I've ever played.

Ultimately that stuff only matters if the Dev team takes those things seriously. I'm not saying or implying this one wouldn't take those concepts seriously; but with finite resources and personnel as well as the fundamental truth that Devs and players are often on different wave lengths due to different understandings and perceptions based on their roles, I have rarely seen any of those things have any meaningful impact on development or balance.

"Telaan;171281" wrote:
It doesn't matter what is done. There will always be cries for nerf. At times, some toons legitimately need them. Often they don't. Devs are usually able to tell when something is legitimately in need of a nerf. They got many more tools at their disposal than the forums to base decisions.

Forming focus groups, test servers, all that stuff is great but has never stopped broken and bugged content or op toons from hitting live servers in any game I've ever played.

Ultimately that stuff only matters if the Dev team takes those things seriously. I'm not saying or implying this one wouldn't take those concepts seriously; but with finite resources and personnel as well as the fundamental truth that Devs and players are often on different wave lengths due to different understandings and perceptions based on their roles, I have rarely seen any of those things have any meaningful impact on development or balance.

I have played a game or 2 where i was actually part of one and it was great. As long as the devs care and take it seriously and the group cares an takes it seriously then its a great thing. The key is having knowledgeable players that look at the big picture, not what affects them directly. The "team" i was part of did this really well and and the devs and us discussed topics almost daily and made some great additions/changes to the game. It was amazing at sorting valuble feedback for discussion vs the venting, "crying", and general misinformation.

It can work as long as individual agenda is set aside and the big picture/impact always the focus.

"Abyss;171296" wrote:

"Telaan;171281" wrote:
It doesn't matter what is done. There will always be cries for nerf. At times, some toons legitimately need them. Often they don't. Devs are usually able to tell when something is legitimately in need of a nerf. They got many more tools at their disposal than the forums to base decisions.

Forming focus groups, test servers, all that stuff is great but has never stopped broken and bugged content or op toons from hitting live servers in any game I've ever played.

Ultimately that stuff only matters if the Dev team takes those things seriously. I'm not saying or implying this one wouldn't take those concepts seriously; but with finite resources and personnel as well as the fundamental truth that Devs and players are often on different wave lengths due to different understandings and perceptions based on their roles, I have rarely seen any of those things have any meaningful impact on development or balance.

I have played a game or 2 where i was actually part of one and it was great. As long as the devs care and take it seriously and the group cares an takes it seriously then its a great thing. The key is having knowledgeable players that look at the big picture, not what affects them directly. The "team" i was part of did this really well and and the devs and us discussed topics almost daily and made some great additions/changes to the game. It was amazing at sorting valuble feedback for discussion vs the venting, "crying", and general misinformation.

It can work as long as individual agenda is set aside and the big picture/impact always the focus.

Oh definitely. That's why I said rarely.

SWtOR is a perfect example of the uselessness of a focus group when they're not taken seriously. I beta tested that game from the second round of invites; so less than a month after beta opened. The whole point was for the Dev team and players to work together to find bugged, broken, missing, and op content. The relationship is designed to benefit everyone. However, we were virtually ignored. Our feedback was rarely taken into account and very little of what we said needed to be done was even considered. Communication was virtually nonexistent, except when they posted new build notes, which as you might guess included little if any of our suggestions.

As a result the game launched broken; especially at higher levels. PvP was complete garbage to the point where they scrapped an entire planet built around endgame PvP within a couple months of launch. Higher level instances and planets were severely bugged and broken due to it receiving limited playtime from overly short builds. Endgame PvE pretty much didn't exist. Within a year the game merged servers and went f2p. Considering it's pre-launch expectations, the IP, and development costs it is the single largest flop in MMO history.

Much, if not most, of it's post launch complications could have been avoided had the Dev team actually worked with us.