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BTTripleZero's avatar
7 years ago

The Potency/Tenacity Problem

The uselessness of raw tenacity has long been known, but the return of Palpatine to the meta is a perfect example of how unbalanced potency vs tenacity is.

I’ve been theory crafting some counters to the new Sith teams I expect to see, and naturally I looked at tenacity leads. Sith rely heavily on debuffs, so it makes sense that preventing them would be a winning strategy. Rolo looks like she would be perfect. She gives Rebels a tenacity boost and TM when they resist/suffer a debuff.

But it’s imbalanced. Her lead gives +20% tenacity while Pap gives +35% potency. Palp starts with 47% potency, so unmodded he is at 85% under his lead. R2 has the highest base tenacity in the game at 56%. Under Rolo lead that’s 76%. Factoring in 15% min resist chance R2 needs tenacity modded at 25% higher than Palp has potency modded just to see any impact at all. So a full tenacity primary mod under the rebel tenacity lead on the highest tenacity character on the game only gets us to the break even point against a Palp lead. It literally isn’t enough to have any impact, and R2 would have the same resist chance as someone with 0 tenacity.

Now, Rolo still might be a great counter because of the TM gain alone, but this highlights how awful tenacity is. We need a few fixes to change this:

1) Characters need more base tenacity. The average tenacity should be a minimum 15% higher than the average potency, since this is the break even point at which extra potency/tenacity become useful. Right now potency numbers are higher than tenacity, and it needs reversed.

2) Give us the ability to use potency/tenacity primary mods on the circle mod slot. This gives us more opportunity to stack tenacity/potency where it can actually have an impact.

40 Replies

  • "Bulldog1205;c-1474024" wrote:
    "leef;c-1473950" wrote:
    "Bulldog1205;c-1473810" wrote:
    The comparison with crit immunity is actually interesting, and also shows why I think tenacity/potency is so worthless. Crit Avoidance is actually a very good stat, and it is certainly helpful in doing what it is supposed to do. The problem is it’s only obtainable in place of speed, and the speed is so OP it’s ridiculous.

    The reason Tenacity/potency is useless isn’t because there are simply better options. It’s useless because the vast majority of the time it literally does nothing. Putting a Crit Avoidance mod on a character will almost always help reduce crit chance, with the rare exception of when a character is over 100% crit rate. Adding a tenacity mod on a character will do absolutely nothing more often than it will do something.


    crit avoidance is a very good stat? Is it not completely overruled by crit chance? Even if speed wasn't on the arrow you'd still be better off with any of the other primaries.
    The 2nd part of your post isn't really a fair comparrisson.


    Not really. It only gets overruled if crit chance goes over 100%. It might not take crit to 0, but 24% reduction is HUGE. By comparison a crit chance mod is 10%. Is argue it’s the 2nd best primary in the game. Unfortunately it’s tucked away behind the undisputed best primary.


    This. Crit avoidance could be incredible...
  • It should be 60%(Potency) vs 40%(Tenacity) and not the 50% vs 50% stalemate, because a lot of the characters' mechanics are based on inflicting debuffs as opposed to a very few based on resisting debuffs!
  • "dimi4a;c-1475199" wrote:
    It should be 60%(Potency) vs 40%(Tenacity) and not the 50% vs 50% stalemate, because a lot of the characters' mechanics are based on inflicting debuffs as opposed to a very few based on resisting debuffs!


    Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, but are you suggesting potency be weighted higher? That’s mind boggling to me, because it’s already so powerful that 95% of the time it’s maxed out and adding more is useless. That would be like recommending speed play more of a factor.
  • "Bulldog1205;c-1475477" wrote:
    "dimi4a;c-1475199" wrote:
    It should be 60%(Potency) vs 40%(Tenacity) and not the 50% vs 50% stalemate, because a lot of the characters' mechanics are based on inflicting debuffs as opposed to a very few based on resisting debuffs!


    Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, but are you suggesting potency be weighted higher? That’s mind boggling to me, because it’s already so powerful that 95% of the time it’s maxed out and adding more is useless. That would be like recommending speed play more of a factor.


    I mean it should remain as it is now with no changes to Tenacity, because otherwise it will break the mechanics of so many toons that rely on inflicting debuffs!
  • "dimi4a;c-1475513" wrote:
    "Bulldog1205;c-1475477" wrote:
    "dimi4a;c-1475199" wrote:
    It should be 60%(Potency) vs 40%(Tenacity) and not the 50% vs 50% stalemate, because a lot of the characters' mechanics are based on inflicting debuffs as opposed to a very few based on resisting debuffs!


    Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, but are you suggesting potency be weighted higher? That’s mind boggling to me, because it’s already so powerful that 95% of the time it’s maxed out and adding more is useless. That would be like recommending speed play more of a factor.


    I mean it should remain as it is now with no changes to Tenacity, because otherwise it will break the mechanics of so many toons that rely on inflicting debuffs!


    But it wouldn’t. It would just mean that if you go up against a team than chose to mod for tenacity you would need to mod for potency to compensate for that.

    Why should a character that chooses to ignore potency be able to inflict debuffs reliably? Might as well just get rid of the stats entirely if that’s what people want.

  • "Bulldog1205;d-160256" wrote:


    1) Characters need more base tenacity.


    I think this would be the easiest way to fix it. Not every character should land every debuff at will. Now I would never run an all tenacity team but I would load up some tenacity on my tanks if tenacity was worth it.

    When I ran Sunfac a long, long time ago I had him modded for over 105% tenacity. The difference was negligible.
  • Oh yay, the new OP toon gives +40% potency out. I’m glad CG is helping to fix the problem...
  • "Bulldog1205;c-1476281" wrote:
    Oh yay, the new OP toon gives +40% potency out. I’m glad CG is helping to fix the problem...


    http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/325/923/b80.png
  • "Mr_Sausage;c-1475627" wrote:
    "Bulldog1205;d-160256" wrote:


    1) Characters need more base tenacity.


    I think this would be the easiest way to fix it. Not every character should land every debuff at will. Now I would never run an all tenacity team but I would load up some tenacity on my tanks if tenacity was worth it.

    When I ran Sunfac a long, long time ago I had him modded for over 105% tenacity. The difference was negligible.


    I agree, I tried maxing tenacity and the debuffs still rolled in, especially from a Vader with only 35% Potency with a Palp lead...hate that 3xDOT unless I'm the one dealing. I'm not saying tenacity is useless but it's definitely the least useful.
  • "Fer_Oshus66;c-1596707" wrote:
    "Mr_Sausage;c-1475627" wrote:
    "Bulldog1205;d-160256" wrote:


    1) Characters need more base tenacity.


    I think this would be the easiest way to fix it. Not every character should land every debuff at will. Now I would never run an all tenacity team but I would load up some tenacity on my tanks if tenacity was worth it.

    When I ran Sunfac a long, long time ago I had him modded for over 105% tenacity. The difference was negligible.


    I agree, I tried maxing tenacity and the debuffs still rolled in, especially from a Vader with only 35% Potency with a Palp lead...


    With an EP lead that Vader had 2x35% bonus potency from the lead for a total 105%. This means that you would need more than 120% tenacity for it to have any effect.

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