Looking at the meta report this morning is just... depressing. You have three toons that are used more than 73% of the time in top teams which are obviously R2, CLS, and GK. 6 toons are used 40% of the time which are Han Solo, DN, and Thrawn. I currently have 3 of the 6 at g11 or higher so I have "followed" the meta but this seems obvious. You simply cannot compete without those 6 toons or at least most of them. What other data do you need that those toons are in need of a nerf? Why would you not WANT your game to have multiple teams, multiple decisions, and, I dunno, some strategy?

It's called power creep. You add toons that are more powerful than the previous or people will consider them worthless.Every game like this has power creep. If it doesn't your user base shrinks fast.

Part of the reason is tb and mods. You have limited good mods. Most people don't want to constantly switch them. So if you want to do well, you might as well leave your best mods on light side toons that are good for tb and arena. That basically means cls r2 and gk. The other fact is that all 3 are really good at plug and play. Stick them in whatever team you want and it will work well. None of this means they need a nerf.

Like pretty much any other game, there will be some people that break this stuff down to the minute detail and find whatever advantage they can. There will always be a "meta" team because there are some smart people who will always figure out the "best" characters to run in arena. With over 100 characters, each with different powersets, it would be impossible for them to completely balance the game as they can't account for every possible team composition that someone could face. As for the characters you've mentioned, GK and Han are raid rewards.....CLS, Thrawn and R2 came from legendary events....so it stands to reason that the best characters would be the hardest ones to acquire.

This is just the result of a series of op toon released one after each other on the last 6 monthsGK, DN, R2, Thrawn, CLS...CLS allowed the return of some toon, thanks to a opiopé rework (Zolo).And be sure hermit yoda is coming...

You can beat those 6 chars without having any of them. There you have diversity, figure it out. Crit hit immunity is by far the most valuable buff right now, reduces their damage output significantly so get your 3 star shoretrooper out. Go on, build something around it.

Why is diversity not encouraged? | EA Forums

aeaswen
8 years ago
"Faa;c-1275287" wrote:
"aeaswen;c-1275258" wrote:
"Faa;c-1275249" wrote:
You can beat those 6 chars without having any of them. There you have diversity, figure it out. Crit hit immunity is by far the most valuable buff right now, reduces their damage output significantly so get your 3 star shoretrooper out. Go on, build something around it.

Name me a team without any of those 6 that can compete. I'll wait.

Sure

Krennic (zeta) or Tarkin as lead, Deathtrooper, Shore, Snowtrooper.

Han stuns deathtrooper, CLS wipes taunt, R2 smokes GK and you are in trouble.
Zolaz2
8 years ago
The power creep and cash grab is real. I believe this is the real reason that diversity isnt encouraged. Why promote that when I can have people continually shelling out cash for new more over powered toons?
Faithhz
8 years ago
"aeaswen;c-1275459" wrote:
"Faa;c-1275287" wrote:
"aeaswen;c-1275258" wrote:
"Faa;c-1275249" wrote:
You can beat those 6 chars without having any of them. There you have diversity, figure it out. Crit hit immunity is by far the most valuable buff right now, reduces their damage output significantly so get your 3 star shoretrooper out. Go on, build something around it.

Name me a team without any of those 6 that can compete. I'll wait.

Sure

Krennic (zeta) or Tarkin as lead, Deathtrooper, Shore, Snowtrooper.

Han stuns deathtrooper, CLS wipes taunt, R2 smokes GK and you are in trouble.

Assuming the AI stuns DT.

Sorry, I meant stormtrooper instead of snowtrooper. The two are confusing me, at times. Stormtrooper is fairly tanky with the 40% defense he gets for each empire ally + the 50% buff from his taunt and on top of that Shoretrooper's critical immunity is another huge damage reduction (216% critical damage multiplier). Han basically won't do much if stormtrooper has defense up + Crit immunity. And CLS will only do enough damage if he dispells it.

If you can keep DT alive long enough, he can be a pretty pain to deal with. He's easily still one of the better characters and surely he's in the league of the 6 you mentioned. The only reason Nihilus is still a thing, although he isn't that great anymore, is because of R2 and Barris to keep your GK alive. Else he's just a tank destroyer.
cuyler41
8 years ago
"Faa;c-1275287" wrote:
"aeaswen;c-1275258" wrote:
"Faa;c-1275249" wrote:
You can beat those 6 chars without having any of them. There you have diversity, figure it out. Crit hit immunity is by far the most valuable buff right now, reduces their damage output significantly so get your 3 star shoretrooper out. Go on, build something around it.

Name me a team without any of those 6 that can compete. I'll wait.

Sure

Krennic (zeta) or Tarkin as lead, Deathtrooper, Shore, Snowtrooper.

Han zolo stuns thrawn at the start and this team is toast. Period. It requires luck and lots of rng for empire team to beat a good cls team. It's 50/50 at best and that's on offense.
Zolaz2
8 years ago
"cuyler41;c-1276127" wrote:
"Faa;c-1275287" wrote:
"aeaswen;c-1275258" wrote:
"Faa;c-1275249" wrote:
You can beat those 6 chars without having any of them. There you have diversity, figure it out. Crit hit immunity is by far the most valuable buff right now, reduces their damage output significantly so get your 3 star shoretrooper out. Go on, build something around it.

Name me a team without any of those 6 that can compete. I'll wait.

Sure

Krennic (zeta) or Tarkin as lead, Deathtrooper, Shore, Snowtrooper.

Han zolo stuns thrawn at the start and this team is toast. Period. It requires luck and lots of rng for empire team to beat a good cls team. It's 50/50 at best and that's on offense.

Sounds perfectly fair, doesnt it?
Faithhz
8 years ago
"cuyler41;c-1276127" wrote:
"Faa;c-1275287" wrote:
"aeaswen;c-1275258" wrote:
"Faa;c-1275249" wrote:
You can beat those 6 chars without having any of them. There you have diversity, figure it out. Crit hit immunity is by far the most valuable buff right now, reduces their damage output significantly so get your 3 star shoretrooper out. Go on, build something around it.

Name me a team without any of those 6 that can compete. I'll wait.

Sure

Krennic (zeta) or Tarkin as lead, Deathtrooper, Shore, Snowtrooper.

Han zolo stuns thrawn at the start and this team is toast. Period. It requires luck and lots of rng for empire team to beat a good cls team. It's 50/50 at best and that's on offense.

You're not toasting a stormtrooper with crit immunity + defense up and a ton of more defense from his unique.

The team I mentioned had no thrawn and you're wrong. Guy on our launch shard runs 4 empire chars with DN, 2 of them are G12 (Tarkin/Stormtrooper like G12 makes a difference on them). https://swgoh.gg/u/nidhogg/

As you can see, he gets his 2nd spot everyday. It's not 50/50, an empire squad still holds a candle and should beat any CLS team unless you don't know how to play.
aeaswen
8 years ago
"Faa;c-1281515" wrote:
"cuyler41;c-1276127" wrote:
"Faa;c-1275287" wrote:
"aeaswen;c-1275258" wrote:
"Faa;c-1275249" wrote:
You can beat those 6 chars without having any of them. There you have diversity, figure it out. Crit hit immunity is by far the most valuable buff right now, reduces their damage output significantly so get your 3 star shoretrooper out. Go on, build something around it.

Name me a team without any of those 6 that can compete. I'll wait.

Sure

Krennic (zeta) or Tarkin as lead, Deathtrooper, Shore, Snowtrooper.

Han zolo stuns thrawn at the start and this team is toast. Period. It requires luck and lots of rng for empire team to beat a good cls team. It's 50/50 at best and that's on offense.

You're not toasting a stormtrooper with crit immunity + defense up and a ton of more defense from his unique.

The team I mentioned had no thrawn and you're wrong. Guy on our launch shard runs 4 empire chars with DN, 2 of them are G12 (Tarkin/Stormtrooper like G12 makes a difference on them). https://swgoh.gg/u/nidhogg/

As you can see, he gets his 2nd spot everyday. It's not 50/50, an empire squad still holds a candle and should beat any CLS team unless you don't know how to play.

If you were correct, it'd show up in usage rates. It doesn't. The usage rates show you long term viability. Of course, outliners with max gear and God Mods exist. This game has 8 to 10 viable toons and I'm being generous. If there were more, they'd be used more.
Faithhz
8 years ago
"aeaswen;c-1281729" wrote:
"Faa;c-1281515" wrote:
"cuyler41;c-1276127" wrote:
"Faa;c-1275287" wrote:
"aeaswen;c-1275258" wrote:
"Faa;c-1275249" wrote:
You can beat those 6 chars without having any of them. There you have diversity, figure it out. Crit hit immunity is by far the most valuable buff right now, reduces their damage output significantly so get your 3 star shoretrooper out. Go on, build something around it.

Name me a team without any of those 6 that can compete. I'll wait.

Sure

Krennic (zeta) or Tarkin as lead, Deathtrooper, Shore, Snowtrooper.

Han zolo stuns thrawn at the start and this team is toast. Period. It requires luck and lots of rng for empire team to beat a good cls team. It's 50/50 at best and that's on offense.

You're not toasting a stormtrooper with crit immunity + defense up and a ton of more defense from his unique.

The team I mentioned had no thrawn and you're wrong. Guy on our launch shard runs 4 empire chars with DN, 2 of them are G12 (Tarkin/Stormtrooper like G12 makes a difference on them). https://swgoh.gg/u/nidhogg/

As you can see, he gets his 2nd spot everyday. It's not 50/50, an empire squad still holds a candle and should beat any CLS team unless you don't know how to play.

If you were correct, it'd show up in usage rates. It doesn't. The usage rates show you long term viability. Of course, outliners with max gear and God Mods exist. This game has 8 to 10 viable toons and I'm being generous. If there were more, they'd be used more.

I don't have to be correct or wrong, you are the one making the claim that you can't beat those 6 chars without having any of them. The burden of proof is on your side - not on mine. Plenty of knowledgeable people out there who can come up with a squad that can beat them. If you can't, then here you are complaining which is irrelevant.

See it this way, challenge 10000 people to beat a CLS - GK - R2 - Han - Thrawn/DN squad without using any of them, do you seriously think not a single guy can't do it?

(Boba, Chaze, Veteran Chewie/Han?)
TACP_TICK
8 years ago
Power creep is lazy game design imho. It's just basic as can be checkers level meta. Who has the most King'd checkers etc. They could make an effort for several metas being usable at once that would add more diversity to arena.

For Example:

A meta counters B meta
B meta counters C meta
C meta counters A meta

Simple fact is this. It would make the whales work too hard to get their arena colluding crystal and we all know how whales are catered to. Instead of focusing on a limited number of whales, they could realize how to do math and encourage pods and pods of dolphins, so to speak, and increase the $ they can get from the player base by not catering to the few.
cuyler41
8 years ago
"Faa;c-1281515" wrote:
"cuyler41;c-1276127" wrote:
"Faa;c-1275287" wrote:
"aeaswen;c-1275258" wrote:
"Faa;c-1275249" wrote:
You can beat those 6 chars without having any of them. There you have diversity, figure it out. Crit hit immunity is by far the most valuable buff right now, reduces their damage output significantly so get your 3 star shoretrooper out. Go on, build something around it.

Name me a team without any of those 6 that can compete. I'll wait.

Sure

Krennic (zeta) or Tarkin as lead, Deathtrooper, Shore, Snowtrooper.

Han zolo stuns thrawn at the start and this team is toast. Period. It requires luck and lots of rng for empire team to beat a good cls team. It's 50/50 at best and that's on offense.

You're not toasting a stormtrooper with crit immunity + defense up and a ton of more defense from his unique.

The team I mentioned had no thrawn and you're wrong. Guy on our launch shard runs 4 empire chars with DN, 2 of them are G12 (Tarkin/Stormtrooper like G12 makes a difference on them). https://swgoh.gg/u/nidhogg/

As you can see, he gets his 2nd spot everyday. It's not 50/50, an empire squad still holds a candle and should beat any CLS team unless you don't know how to play.

"Faa;c-1281515" wrote:
"cuyler41;c-1276127" wrote:
"Faa;c-1275287" wrote:
"aeaswen;c-1275258" wrote:
"Faa;c-1275249" wrote:
You can beat those 6 chars without having any of them. There you have diversity, figure it out. Crit hit immunity is by far the most valuable buff right now, reduces their damage output significantly so get your 3 star shoretrooper out. Go on, build something around it.

Name me a team without any of those 6 that can compete. I'll wait.

Sure

Krennic (zeta) or Tarkin as lead, Deathtrooper, Shore, Snowtrooper.

Han zolo stuns thrawn at the start and this team is toast. Period. It requires luck and lots of rng for empire team to beat a good cls team. It's 50/50 at best and that's on offense.

You're not toasting a stormtrooper with crit immunity + defense up and a ton of more defense from his unique.

The team I mentioned had no thrawn and you're wrong. Guy on our launch shard runs 4 empire chars with DN, 2 of them are G12 (Tarkin/Stormtrooper like G12 makes a difference on them). https://swgoh.gg/u/nidhogg/

As you can see, he gets his 2nd spot everyday. It's not 50/50, an empire squad still holds a candle and should beat any CLS team unless you don't know how to play.

Cls has OVERRUN arena, it's all the proof needed. IF what you say were true there would be diversity but there is not. I'm on a Dec 15 so yah I know how to play. I can get first second third somedays just like your friend. It's not impossible.

It's not about if it can be done, but rather how the lack of diversity ruins any fun there once was in arena.