Arena mods question

1. For chars who have high tm boost bonus. Like Res compilation.. Res Troop n Finn don't really need speed, but Poe need.

2. On cls, there is difference between using speed mod or crit damage mod. I have speedy cls with 270ish speed, but hit like wet noodle. On the other side, i have crit damage n crit chance set with low speed around 210 ish. I personally like cls with high damage setting.

3. Tank chars who intended to goes as slow as possible. Like RG, baze, shore.

4. If u already have mod sets with great speed secondary speed u don't need speed set.

Speed set is only 10%
So character with low base speed may only get 10 or 12 speed boost.

All bonus is calculated off base stats. Only completed gear levels become incorporated into base stats.

"Silky;c-1263885" wrote:

"Huatimus;c-1263873" wrote:
All bonus is calculated off base stats. Only completed gear levels become incorporated into base stats.

I didn't know that. I guess it's not as big of a boost as I thought. Thanks!

Even when that's the case, I still prefer speed mods on my characters. In fact all my Arena characters have a Speed set mod. Going first even by 1 speed makes a huge difference.

"Silky;c-1263859" wrote:

I have 2 health sets and 2 speed sets with mid-teens speed secondaries on my arena team. My Baze set is more of low speed and higher prot/health. I really like the idea of having my CLS hit harder, which is exactly what you hit on Racer. I feel like he could hit a lot harder if I put 4x CD and 2x CC/Off/Pot on him, but I don't want him to be too slow to be viable in arena.

I compensate my cls lack of speed by zeta all his stuff and some tune with team. Lead bonus: 5% tm when rebel ally debuff resisted, unique 10% tm when rebel ally get hit. Zeta on his first unique is useful also-100% tenacity when don't have call to action buff. Really useful when facing r2 under cls lead.. that r2 stuns :scream:

Tune with the team, i use accuracy arrow on baze, so that he always hit (other is health mod with protection primary).. u know baze hit alot with his counter. Also low potency setting.. so i get many tm bonus if his speed down debuff resisted.

I can get rid raid han/ATF fast with high damage cls setting.. they're sooo annoying :lol:

Crit Damage is better than speed for a lot of characters.

It isn't that hard to get 80 speed from primaries and secondaries, which means that 200 speed is kind of a baseline speed in arena.

At 200 speed that someone's base speed is 120. A speed set would give 12 speed.

12 speed is roughly 1/16 of that toon's total speed.

Assuming you use a crit damage triangle no matter what, a crit damage set will take you from 186% crit damage to 216% crit damage, a 5/31 increase in damage overall (pretty close to 1/6).

Now critting isn't guaranteed so we need to take crit chance into account. In order to determine the breakpoint we'll make an equation:
5/31X=1/16
x= 38.75/100 or 38.75% Crit Chance

So a character will do more damage with a crit damage set than a speed set once their crit chance breaks 38.75%.

Now this is assuming they are a 120 speed character with 80 speed from mods. The higher the base speed the character has, the more speed the speed set will give them, likewise the lower the speed from mods, the higher the % increase will be from the speed set.

So my first example was kind of a comparison based on what I would call common base speeds and mod speeds, So let's make an extreme example of a scenario that maximizes the speed set's usefulness:

TFP has a base speed of 170. Let's assume he only has a speed arrow so is only getting 30 speed from mods and is a 200 speed overall.
The speed set will give him 17 speed, which is an increase of 1/11 (rounded up, it's actually closer to 1/12)
So we get the formula:

5/31x = 1/11 which works out to 56.36% crit

So what does this tell us? That most characters will do better damage with a crit damage set than a speed set at around 40% crit, and that all characters will do better damage with a crit damage set than a speed set at 57% crit.

And for a final example, let's minimize the speed set's effectiveness:

Let's pick a toon with an 89 base speed and 175 speed from mods (max not counting set bonus as far as I am aware). That's 8 speed from that speed set. 8 is roughly 1/33 of the 264 speed the guy has from base and primary/secondary speeds.

5/31x = 1/33 which works out to 18.78% crit.

So if you have uber speed mods, there's practically no character that would do better with a speed set than a Crit damage set.

TLDR for my above post: The crit damage set is usually better than the speed set for damage dealers, unless they are under Nihilus lead or can't hit a halfway decent crit chance.

"Woodroward;c-1263957" wrote:
Crit Damage is better than speed for a lot of characters.

It isn't that hard to get 80 speed from primaries and secondaries, which means that 200 speed is kind of a baseline speed in arena.

At 200 speed that someone's base speed is 120. A speed set would give 12 speed.

12 speed is roughly 1/16 of that toon's total speed.

Assuming you use a crit damage triangle no matter what, a crit damage set will take you from 186% crit damage to 216% crit damage, a 5/31 increase in damage overall (pretty close to 1/6).

Now critting isn't guaranteed so we need to take crit chance into account. In order to determine the breakpoint we'll make an equation:
5/31X=1/16
x= 38.75/100 or 38.75% Crit Chance

So a character will do more damage with a crit damage set than a speed set once their crit chance breaks 38.75%.

Now this is assuming they are a 120 speed character with 80 speed from mods. The higher the base speed the character has, the more speed the speed set will give them, likewise the lower the speed from mods, the higher the % increase will be from the speed set.

So my first example was kind of a comparison based on what I would call common base speeds and mod speeds, So let's make an extreme example of a scenario that maximizes the speed set's usefulness:

TFP has a base speed of 170. Let's assume he only has a speed arrow so is only getting 30 speed from mods and is a 200 speed overall.
The speed set will give him 17 speed, which is an increase of 1/11 (rounded up, it's actually closer to 1/12)
So we get the formula:

5/31x = 1/11 which works out to 56.36% crit

So what does this tell us? That most characters will do better damage with a crit damage set than a speed set at around 40% crit, and that all characters will do better damage with a crit damage set than a speed set at 57% crit.

And for a final example, let's minimize the speed set's effectiveness:

Let's pick a toon with an 89 base speed and 175 speed from mods (max not counting set bonus as far as I am aware). That's 8 speed from that speed set. 8 is roughly 1/33 of the 264 speed the guy has from base and primary/secondary speeds.

5/31x = 1/33 which works out to 18.78% crit.

So if you have uber speed mods, there's practically no character that would do better with a speed set than a Crit damage set.

Your Maths as sound as it may be does not take into account the actual effects of going first. If my R2 is 1 speed faster than yours and stun yours first, how much damage do you think your R2 is doing? If my CLS goes first and removes 100% TM from your CLS, does it matter if I'm doing 20% less damage? Or if my Thrawn fractures first, or DN increase Cooldown first? The topic at hand now is Arena mods. If you're looking at maximising damage from mods, that is a lot more applicable for Raids.

"Huatimus;c-1263974" wrote:

"Woodroward;c-1263957" wrote:
Crit Damage is better than speed for a lot of characters.

It isn't that hard to get 80 speed from primaries and secondaries, which means that 200 speed is kind of a baseline speed in arena.

At 200 speed that someone's base speed is 120. A speed set would give 12 speed.

12 speed is roughly 1/16 of that toon's total speed.

Assuming you use a crit damage triangle no matter what, a crit damage set will take you from 186% crit damage to 216% crit damage, a 5/31 increase in damage overall (pretty close to 1/6).

Now critting isn't guaranteed so we need to take crit chance into account. In order to determine the breakpoint we'll make an equation:
5/31X=1/16
x= 38.75/100 or 38.75% Crit Chance

So a character will do more damage with a crit damage set than a speed set once their crit chance breaks 38.75%.

Now this is assuming they are a 120 speed character with 80 speed from mods. The higher the base speed the character has, the more speed the speed set will give them, likewise the lower the speed from mods, the higher the % increase will be from the speed set.

So my first example was kind of a comparison based on what I would call common base speeds and mod speeds, So let's make an extreme example of a scenario that maximizes the speed set's usefulness:

TFP has a base speed of 170. Let's assume he only has a speed arrow so is only getting 30 speed from mods and is a 200 speed overall.
The speed set will give him 17 speed, which is an increase of 1/11 (rounded up, it's actually closer to 1/12)
So we get the formula:

5/31x = 1/11 which works out to 56.36% crit

So what does this tell us? That most characters will do better damage with a crit damage set than a speed set at around 40% crit, and that all characters will do better damage with a crit damage set than a speed set at 57% crit.

And for a final example, let's minimize the speed set's effectiveness:

Let's pick a toon with an 89 base speed and 175 speed from mods (max not counting set bonus as far as I am aware). That's 8 speed from that speed set. 8 is roughly 1/33 of the 264 speed the guy has from base and primary/secondary speeds.

5/31x = 1/33 which works out to 18.78% crit.

So if you have uber speed mods, there's practically no character that would do better with a speed set than a Crit damage set.

Your Maths as sound as it may be does not take into account the actual effects of going first. If my R2 is 1 speed faster than yours and stun yours first, how much damage do you think your R2 is doing? If my CLS goes first and removes 100% TM from your CLS, does it matter if I'm doing 20% less damage? Or if my Thrawn fractures first, or DN increase Cooldown first? The topic at hand now is Arena mods. If you're looking at maximising damage from mods, that is a lot more applicable for Raids.

You are absolutely correct that it ignores first turn priority. Personally, I have found that even if my first turn goes completely 100% wrong, I can still come back. I don't think going first is quite the priority/advantage it used to be. It's big, but if it takes you 3 turns longer to kill me than it does for me to kill you I still win, even if you steal my first turn and get one more turn than me besides that due to your speed (which is all the speed set COULD get you, a 2 turn advantage).

If we were talking about speed in general vs other secondaries, then yes, but as far as the speed set goes in arena... the crit damage set is still usually better.

"Woodroward;c-1263983" wrote:

"Huatimus;c-1263974" wrote:

"Woodroward;c-1263957" wrote:
Crit Damage is better than speed for a lot of characters.

It isn't that hard to get 80 speed from primaries and secondaries, which means that 200 speed is kind of a baseline speed in arena.

At 200 speed that someone's base speed is 120. A speed set would give 12 speed.

12 speed is roughly 1/16 of that toon's total speed.

Assuming you use a crit damage triangle no matter what, a crit damage set will take you from 186% crit damage to 216% crit damage, a 5/31 increase in damage overall (pretty close to 1/6).

Now critting isn't guaranteed so we need to take crit chance into account. In order to determine the breakpoint we'll make an equation:
5/31X=1/16
x= 38.75/100 or 38.75% Crit Chance

So a character will do more damage with a crit damage set than a speed set once their crit chance breaks 38.75%.

Now this is assuming they are a 120 speed character with 80 speed from mods. The higher the base speed the character has, the more speed the speed set will give them, likewise the lower the speed from mods, the higher the % increase will be from the speed set.

So my first example was kind of a comparison based on what I would call common base speeds and mod speeds, So let's make an extreme example of a scenario that maximizes the speed set's usefulness:

TFP has a base speed of 170. Let's assume he only has a speed arrow so is only getting 30 speed from mods and is a 200 speed overall.
The speed set will give him 17 speed, which is an increase of 1/11 (rounded up, it's actually closer to 1/12)
So we get the formula:

5/31x = 1/11 which works out to 56.36% crit

So what does this tell us? That most characters will do better damage with a crit damage set than a speed set at around 40% crit, and that all characters will do better damage with a crit damage set than a speed set at 57% crit.

And for a final example, let's minimize the speed set's effectiveness:

Let's pick a toon with an 89 base speed and 175 speed from mods (max not counting set bonus as far as I am aware). That's 8 speed from that speed set. 8 is roughly 1/33 of the 264 speed the guy has from base and primary/secondary speeds.

5/31x = 1/33 which works out to 18.78% crit.

So if you have uber speed mods, there's practically no character that would do better with a speed set than a Crit damage set.

Your Maths as sound as it may be does not take into account the actual effects of going first. If my R2 is 1 speed faster than yours and stun yours first, how much damage do you think your R2 is doing? If my CLS goes first and removes 100% TM from your CLS, does it matter if I'm doing 20% less damage? Or if my Thrawn fractures first, or DN increase Cooldown first? The topic at hand now is Arena mods. If you're looking at maximising damage from mods, that is a lot more applicable for Raids.

You are absolutely correct that it ignores first turn priority. Personally, I have found that even if my first turn goes completely 100% wrong, I can still come back. I don't think going first is quite the priority/advantage it used to be. It's big, but if it takes you 3 turns longer to kill me than it does for me to kill you I still win, even if you steal my first turn and get one more turn than me besides that due to your speed (which is all the speed set COULD get you, a 2 turn advantage).

If we were talking about speed in general vs other secondaries, then yes, but as far as the speed set goes in arena... the crit damage set is still usually better.

Not necessarily. Especially if your target has crit immunity. But arena has alot if rng going so either way, high speed or high dmg/average speed. Both will work just fine.