Daze Vs Complex abilities

Kyno, have you been told it's a "thank you?" or is that just your interpretation? I mean, it makes sense sorta, but just wondering. I think it's fine as is, if it cleanses then can target, if not then no, but it could work either way and be fine. I'm sure there are times when you would want the buffs and not the assist (on a non-cleansing one)

if jolee can use his call to assist on a dazed char I think that would be an exception bc it's also a group heal, no?

"Gifafi;c-2152839" wrote:
Kyno, have you been told it's a "thank you?" or is that just your interpretation? I mean, it makes sense sorta, but just wondering. I think it's fine as is, if it cleanses then can target, if not then no, but it could work either way and be fine. I'm sure there are times when you would want the buffs and not the assist (on a non-cleansing one)

if jolee can use his call to assist on a dazed char I think that would be an exception bc it's also a group heal, no?

I used the term "thank you" for lack of a better way to say it. there are multiple parts of abilities like this, but the basics are founded on the "normal types" (see the quotations, that means its not exactly that, but just a way to express the idea). assists, buffs, debuffs, attacks....ext. as kits get more complicated it always going to be a which came first the chicken or the egg type thing when looking at these abilities.

assisting attacks offer other additional benefits. but its still an assisting attack. if they can't assist, then why should they get the additional benefits? if the ability was based on granting the additional benefits, and had an assist as the bonus, then sure..... but its all about interpretation and the procedure set up in the game. the precedent and "normal" we have seen from the beginning, is that if you are dazed you cannot be selected for an assisting attack. Could they change this or make certain abilities operate in a different order, sure, its not a hard rule, but that's not how they set this up.

its always great to want an ability to do more than it does, but there is also the "natural rules" set by the game and sometimes that order of operation is just that way, because it is.

its all about what the intent is for the ability. if the intent is an assist, then anything else is a bonus. if the intent is a heal and the assist is a bonus, cool.

sure we can all want it changed, but it doesnt' make it not WAI or a bug.

Why are you saying the assist is the intent and that "anything else is a bonus"? Again, that's your interpretation.

"TVF;c-2152848" wrote:
Why are you saying the assist is the intent and that "anything else is a bonus"? Again, that's your interpretation.

based on precedent. again, those are the "natural rules" of the game we have seen from the beginning. if you were dazed you could not be selected for the ability that calls an assist (no matter any other benefits, unless it was cleanse), this is the way it was in the beginning. as i said, if you want to change it now, sure go ahead and ask for it to be changed, but it would be a change from what we have seen for any ability that called an assist. this is what highlights that the primary action of the ability has been established as the assist.

also during this conversation i brought this up with the team at Answers HQ and Hera is in fact a bug and has been flagged as such.

"Kyno;c-2152858" wrote:

"TVF;c-2152848" wrote:
Why are you saying the assist is the intent and that "anything else is a bonus"? Again, that's your interpretation.

based on precedent. again, those are the "natural rules" of the game we have seen from the beginning. if you were dazed you could not be selected for the ability that calls an assist (no matter any other benefits, unless it was cleanse), this is the way it was in the beginning. as i said, if you want to change it now, sure go ahead and ask for it to be changed, but it would be a change from what we have seen for any ability that called an assist. this is what highlights that the primary action of the ability has been established as the assist.

I don't remember for sure, but I seem to remember that I have in the past been able to target someone who is blocked from the benefit on a different ability, like wasting a heal on someone with healing immunity, or a buff on someone with buff immunity. Which would be inconsistent with the "natural rules" of the game you are indicating are in place.

"TVF;c-2152866" wrote:

"Kyno;c-2152858" wrote:

"TVF;c-2152848" wrote:
Why are you saying the assist is the intent and that "anything else is a bonus"? Again, that's your interpretation.

based on precedent. again, those are the "natural rules" of the game we have seen from the beginning. if you were dazed you could not be selected for the ability that calls an assist (no matter any other benefits, unless it was cleanse), this is the way it was in the beginning. as i said, if you want to change it now, sure go ahead and ask for it to be changed, but it would be a change from what we have seen for any ability that called an assist. this is what highlights that the primary action of the ability has been established as the assist.

I don't remember for sure, but I seem to remember that I have in the past been able to target someone who is blocked from the benefit on a different ability, like wasting a heal on someone with healing immunity, or a buff on someone with buff immunity. Which would be inconsistent with the "natural rules" of the game you are indicating are in place.

you do realize that I am not saying that this is a blanket rule for everything. the "natural rules" of the game have many facets and yes they can be different for different things, in different situations. Its amazing how things work some times, and they are quite often not the same.

the precedent for HI and BI are as you are describing, if suddenly it worked differently that would go against the current understanding we have of the "natural rules". this is all similar to how potency/tenacity play together. its just how it was established in this game. as i said, you want to ask for it to be changed, great, change is good, but it is a change from what we currently see and have seen in the past.

When "thank you" doesnt work.....

Slk and padme can hard stun a target. Bastila absolutely can target those units despite being under the effect of the undispellable stun.

Even though they are unable to offer their assist, and are not worthy to lift the Mjolnir or to receive any build up as per Kyno, they are absolutely receiving all the rally buffs.

Probably Bastila knows another sentence... "For the effort" or something.... Smh

"SerWulfgar;c-2152940" wrote:
When "thank you" doesnt work.....

Slk and padme can hard stun a target. Bastila absolutely can target those units despite being under the effect of the undispellable stun.

Even though they are unable to offer their assist, and are not worthy to lift the Mjolnir or to receive any build up as per Kyno, they are absolutely receiving all the rally buffs.

Probably Bastila knows another sentence... "For the effort" or something.... Smh

so you are saying stun works differently than daze....... I can edit my above post to include that in the list of things that are consistent within "the class" but different than other debuffs, but i thought that would naturally fall under the ...ext... remark.

No i am saying your philosophy is flawed about the grateful characters and i am being modest here as i really think this is an understatement.

Also, stating that the "Lay waste" ability is an assist call as primary action is something i cannot really consider to be a serious statement. I am pretty sure that having 3 dazed FO Ship on field will not prevent you from using the capital ship's basic ability.