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DsenceBacon's avatar
DsenceBacon
4 years ago

Help with Padme mechanics

I must be missing something and I would really appreciate some help or clarification on this topic. I keep reading from other players and forum posts that Padme’s protection up abilities “scale” based on max health. I’ve read it in multiple forum posts. My guild mates reiterated this but couldn’t provide any reasoning.

However, I can’t find it anywhere in her description or abilities where it describes that particular mechanic. Specifically, that protection up SCALES with max health.

Her leader ability simply states that allies receive 50% max health, and later refers to protection up within the context of being immune to debuffs while having it, and then dispelling it for the purposes of courage. Courage specifically is all about doing damage to the enemy based on their max health.

So, her leader ability doesn’t provide any clues as to when or how protection up scales with max health.

Let’s move on to her unique. All it states here regarding protection up is that whenever someone loses protection up, they recover 5% health. That’s great, but it has nothing to do with it scaling. Then it moves on to explain receiving protection up whenever they are attacked out of turn, “increased to 40% if Padme is their leader.” This too, has nothing to do with scaling.

Let’s turn to her abilities. Her basic simply gives teammates 10% protection up. I read in another forum post that it was her special, “cunning plan”, which gives scaled protection up based on max health. However this doesn’t appear to be the case in the actual description. It’s a simple dispel and everybody recovers 50% max health. Then they receive 10% protection up for each debuff dispelled and each “galactic republic ally”. Again, this doesn’t state anywhere that protection up is scaling with health.

I then thought it was possibly described in her modding suggestions. Here, it’s a bit vague but it’s recommended to give Padme health mods to “get the most out of protection up and courage”. That could be referring to the recovering 5% health when losing protection up.

The unexplained aspect is why health mods would help with courage, which is dealing with protection up, not health, and the damage done is based on the enemies max health. Again, no description of anything scaling.

Did I miss something when her kit was announced or revealed? If so, I think that’s crazy, because how easy would it be for her leader description to clarify this? “Protection up is based on allys’ max health.”

I would love some help of clarification, I don’t need more reiterating of the exact thing I can’t seem to prove. I need to know where it shows that protection up scales to max health.

Also, this isn’t a post against health mods. Modding for health seems pretty solid.

Thanks for reading.
  • firefoxx83uk's avatar
    firefoxx83uk
    4 years ago
    It's within fundamental game mechanics, not kit. The volume of protection received getting prot up is calculated off HP. Not base protection.

    This is not padme specific but applies to any protection up, which may be where the confusion is coming from.
  • crzydroid's avatar
    crzydroid
    Retired Hero
    4 years ago
    "Baconlichten_5;c-2316082" wrote:
    Thank you! Whenever somebody talked about modding Padme it was always implied that this was something special with the Padme kit. So protection up, on average, is always based on a characters total HP?

    That would justify modding a Padme team for health given her leader ability giving GP allies 50% Max health.

    It makes you wonder what else there is to discover about the mechanics of this game.


    Yes that's true. It's also why you would mod JML for health if you want his mods specific to a Bastila lead.
  • winterwolves's avatar
    winterwolves
    Rising Scout
    4 years ago
    I think that there may be a misconception out there that higher health on your toons equals more damage from courage directly. It doesn't.

    Let's do 2 examples to show how it works, and to show where it can make a difference to your damage from courage.

    We'll take these figures as if they are after Padme's lead bonus and any other factors.

    Take a character with either 100k health or 50k health. Protection up is always based off max health so 100% protection up would be the same amount of protection as you have health.

    We have a team of 5 galactic republic and padme uses Cunning Plan with no debuffs on the team, so everyone gains 50% protection up.

    100k health gains 50k prot up.
    50k health gains 25k prot up.

    Now, nothing happens in between and we go to 100k character's turn. They dispel all prot up and gain 1 stack of courage per 5% prot up dispelled. That's 10 stacks as we have 50% divided by 5. They get to inflict 2 sets of courage damage for 80% of the enemy max health.
    The 50k character turn is exactly the same as they still have 50% prot up, so still 10 stacks of courage. The actual numbers being different has no effect.

    The difference is if you suffer any damage between gaining protection up and getting to your turn.

    Let's say we suffer 15k damage before getting to take a turn.
    100k character has 50-15=35k protection up remaining which is 35%.
    50k character has 25-15=10k protection up remaining which is 20%.
    100k character gets 35/5=7 stacks of courage to still be able to do 40% max health damage.
    50k character gets 20/5=4 stacks of courage, not enough to get any extra damage.

    So modding for health, combined with Padme's lead, means you are more likely to still have a higher percentage of protection up after the enemy team has done their damage.
  • StealthGOBLIN32's avatar
    StealthGOBLIN32
    4 years ago
    G6 and lower characters don’t have protection unless it’s on mods (and others convert it into health at the start of battle). Therefore, Protection up must always be based on max health or some characters couldn’t get it.
  • DsenceBacon's avatar
    DsenceBacon
    4 years ago
    Thank you! Whenever somebody talked about modding Padme it was always implied that this was something special with the Padme kit. So protection up, on average, is always based on a characters total HP?

    That would justify modding a Padme team for health given her leader ability giving GP allies 50% Max health.

    It makes you wonder what else there is to discover about the mechanics of this game.
  • StealthGOBLIN32's avatar
    StealthGOBLIN32
    4 years ago
    "Artumas;c-2316113" wrote:
    The gist of it is read protection up percentages as a percentage of max health - The only notable exception that comes to mind immediately being Rey's Lifeblood, which is a percentage of REY'S max health specifically - This is why she's so powerful when using undergeared characters, because she can give a level 1 gear 1 LS char like 200k protection.

    The other notable generally unstated mechanics that I can think of off the top of my head would be...
    Tenacity and Potency: There's always a minimum 5% (think it's 5%?) chance of success or failure, regardless of stat difference.

    Characters like GAS that can't have their health drop below a certain percentage are not immune to instant-death effects such as Nihilus or Mando.
    Similarly, Damage Immunity doesn't prevent instant-death - This comes into play a lot nowadays with CAT being on most JMK and Rey arena teams.

    Buffs (and Debuffs?) almost always stack with themselves even if the icon doesn't represent it, it just might not actually do anything unless interacting with an ability that specifically calls for number of buffs/debuffs, such as Geo Spy.

    Feats that call for a specific ship to be available just requires that ship to be in the fleet, not actually see battle, which means you can set them to, say, the last reinforcement slot and just never call them as a reinforcement and it still counts.

    Vader's unique counts characters that have multiple relevant tags for each tag, so for example, himself and palpatine are counted twice for it. - This leads to an absolutely insane speed boost against Phoenix.

    Tenacity Down can't be resisted. (Pretty sure this is still the case?)

    Certain values from various leader skills, debuffs and uniques apply additively as a total rather than individually, such as Traya and Gideon. This leads to some weird synergy where certain characters work absurdly well together because of this.


    Automatic resist chance is 15%, not 5%.
  • Da_Bauers's avatar
    Da_Bauers
    New Spectator
    4 years ago
    The base chance to resist also scales based on the level difference between the two characters as well. It's why in TB the enemies seem to resist so often.

    +5% additional base chance to resist per +1 level difference, to a max of additional +30% (+6 levels higher).
  • Mephisto_style's avatar
    Mephisto_style
    4 years ago
    "Baconlichten_5;c-2316082" wrote:
    Thank you! Whenever somebody talked about modding Padme it was always implied that this was something special with the Padme kit. So protection up, on average, is always based on a characters total HP?

    That would justify modding a Padme team for health given her leader ability giving GP allies 50% Max health.

    It makes you wonder what else there is to discover about the mechanics of this game.


    Oh, likely every kit has unique parameters that make the kit unique. Abilities for instance have their own multipliers. Jawa Scavenger's ability Line in the Sand has its own potency based off of his offense. He gets 0.2 potency for every certain amount of offense, to where his and the team's thermal detonator application have between 110 to 140 potency.
  • DsenceBacon's avatar
    DsenceBacon
    4 years ago

    "Artumas;c-2316113" wrote:
    The gist of it is read protection up percentages as a percentage of max health - The only notable exception that comes to mind immediately being Rey's Lifeblood, which is a percentage of REY'S max health specifically - This is why she's so powerful when using undergeared characters, because she can give a level 1 gear 1 LS char like 200k protection.

    The other notable generally unstated mechanics that I can think of off the top of my head would be...
    Tenacity and Potency: There's always a minimum 5% (think it's 5%?) chance of success or failure, regardless of stat difference.

    Characters like GAS that can't have their health drop below a certain percentage are not immune to instant-death effects such as Nihilus or Mando.
    Similarly, Damage Immunity doesn't prevent instant-death - This comes into play a lot nowadays with CAT being on most JMK and Rey arena teams.

    Buffs (and Debuffs?) almost always stack with themselves even if the icon doesn't represent it, it just might not actually do anything unless interacting with an ability that specifically calls for number of buffs/debuffs, such as Geo Spy.

    Feats that call for a specific ship to be available just requires that ship to be in the fleet, not actually see battle, which means you can set them to, say, the last reinforcement slot and just never call them as a reinforcement and it still counts.

    Vader's unique counts characters that have multiple relevant tags for each tag, so for example, himself and palpatine are counted twice for it. - This leads to an absolutely insane speed boost against Phoenix.

    Tenacity Down can't be resisted. (Pretty sure this is still the case?)

    Certain values from various leader skills, debuffs and uniques apply additively as a total rather than individually, such as Traya and Gideon. This leads to some weird synergy where certain characters work absurdly well together because of this.


    That is very interesting stuff. I had no idea about the stacking buffs/debuffs, in the sense that some won’t be represented on screen, or functioning, but still counted when it comes to certain abilities. Crazy.

    I wonder if culling blade works this way?

  • DsenceBacon's avatar
    DsenceBacon
    4 years ago
    "Winterwolves;c-2316095" wrote:
    I think that there may be a misconception out there that higher health on your toons equals more damage from courage directly. It doesn't.

    Let's do 2 examples to show how it works, and to show where it can make a difference to your damage from courage.

    We'll take these figures as if they are after Padme's lead bonus and any other factors.

    Take a character with either 100k health or 50k health. Protection up is always based off max health so 100% protection up would be the same amount of protection as you have health.

    We have a team of 5 galactic republic and padme uses Cunning Plan with no debuffs on the team, so everyone gains 50% protection up.

    100k health gains 50k prot up.
    50k health gains 25k prot up.

    Now, nothing happens in between and we go to 100k character's turn. They dispel all prot up and gain 1 stack of courage per 5% prot up dispelled. That's 10 stacks as we have 50% divided by 5. They get to inflict 2 sets of courage damage for 80% of the enemy max health.
    The 50k character turn is exactly the same as they still have 50% prot up, so still 10 stacks of courage. The actual numbers being different has no effect.

    The difference is if you suffer any damage between gaining protection up and getting to your turn.

    Let's say we suffer 15k damage before getting to take a turn.
    100k character has 50-15=35k protection up remaining which is 35%.
    50k character has 25-15=10k protection up remaining which is 20%.
    100k character gets 35/5=7 stacks of courage to still be able to do 40% max health damage.
    50k character gets 20/5=4 stacks of courage, not enough to get any extra damage.

    So modding for health, combined with Padme's lead, means you are more likely to still have a higher percentage of protection up after the enemy team has done their damage.


    Despite me being ignorant about protection up mechanics, what you say here makes complete sense and I’ve always viewed it this way too. Health only helps courage insofar as it increases the damage pool to make it to the next turn. It doesn’t directly increase damage.

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