Hey - what's this zeta on 5's all about? Kix inc?

"taquillasun;c-1964620" wrote:

"RandomSithLord;c-1964618" wrote:

"taquillasun;c-1964604" wrote:

"Dirty_Litle_Smuggler;c-1964588" wrote:
It also prevents a “paper clone”, similar to paper zombie that would be intentionally sacrificed several times. Rex lead, Fives, Echo, Daka and paper Cody would crush raids. Mod fives for all offense and speed, minimal health (to get his ability to trigger as many times as possible), and you’d quickly have teams with over 800 speed, 10K offense and rising, with echo to double tap every time someone uses a basic.

This argument is based on the premise that every time 5's dies they would keep getting his bonus.

As I stated before, they already have Old Ben Kenobi and it clearly states "THE FIRST TIME" he dies.

5's does not revive himself like Zombi.

And Zombie doesn't give any bonuses when zombie dies.

You need the character in that receives bonuses for death or % health lower = bonus turn etc..

This is a bad analogy in my opinion as they share very little of the same mechanics.

Quite frankly, it's like I said, I will NOT be surprised if Kix isn't introduced as a part of the 501st. I also will not be shocked if he is.

It could still be abused. If Fives's unique is triggered, you get a supercharged Rex and Echo and if you could revive Fives (whether by Visas, a new clone or anyone else) you'd even get your durable tank back without any drawbacks.

It does not exclude the addition of a new clone (let it be Kix), but it doesn't hint it either. That failsafe needed to be added for current in-game mechanics anyway.

If they could be abused then why hasn't anyone found a way to abuse Old ben yet?

Because Old Ben doesn't give massive permanent stat boosts, he give some healing and a few buffs.

"taquillasun;c-1964620" wrote:

"RandomSithLord;c-1964618" wrote:

"taquillasun;c-1964604" wrote:

"Dirty_Litle_Smuggler;c-1964588" wrote:
It also prevents a “paper clone”, similar to paper zombie that would be intentionally sacrificed several times. Rex lead, Fives, Echo, Daka and paper Cody would crush raids. Mod fives for all offense and speed, minimal health (to get his ability to trigger as many times as possible), and you’d quickly have teams with over 800 speed, 10K offense and rising, with echo to double tap every time someone uses a basic.

This argument is based on the premise that every time 5's dies they would keep getting his bonus.

As I stated before, they already have Old Ben Kenobi and it clearly states "THE FIRST TIME" he dies.

5's does not revive himself like Zombi.

And Zombie doesn't give any bonuses when zombie dies.

You need the character in that receives bonuses for death or % health lower = bonus turn etc..

This is a bad analogy in my opinion as they share very little of the same mechanics.

Quite frankly, it's like I said, I will NOT be surprised if Kix isn't introduced as a part of the 501st. I also will not be shocked if he is.

It could still be abused. If Fives's unique is triggered, you get a supercharged Rex and Echo and if you could revive Fives (whether by Visas, a new clone or anyone else) you'd even get your durable tank back without any drawbacks.

It does not exclude the addition of a new clone (let it be Kix), but it doesn't hint it either. That failsafe needed to be added for current in-game mechanics anyway.

If they could be abused then why hasn't anyone found a way to abuse Old ben yet?

Tank revive teams are a thing, people just usually use it with L3 and/or CWC in a scoundrel team. CLS, Han and Chewy have a fixed spot on the CLS team, where OB really shines, and both C3 or R2 are better options than a potential revive.

It's about the kits mostly. There's a lot smaller benefit to gain from a revived OB on a rebel team than Fives on a clone team. The stat gains from Fives are slso not comparable to the slight buff OB gives.

Edit: Strategy wise you also leave OB last, so there's hardly a way to abuse a revive. With Clones it's actually smarter to kill Fives first, so yes, a revive can be abused unlike in the rebels' case.

"Treeburner;c-1964640" wrote:

"taquillasun;c-1964620" wrote:

"RandomSithLord;c-1964618" wrote:

"taquillasun;c-1964604" wrote:

"Dirty_Litle_Smuggler;c-1964588" wrote:
It also prevents a “paper clone”, similar to paper zombie that would be intentionally sacrificed several times. Rex lead, Fives, Echo, Daka and paper Cody would crush raids. Mod fives for all offense and speed, minimal health (to get his ability to trigger as many times as possible), and you’d quickly have teams with over 800 speed, 10K offense and rising, with echo to double tap every time someone uses a basic.

This argument is based on the premise that every time 5's dies they would keep getting his bonus.

As I stated before, they already have Old Ben Kenobi and it clearly states "THE FIRST TIME" he dies.

5's does not revive himself like Zombi.

And Zombie doesn't give any bonuses when zombie dies.

You need the character in that receives bonuses for death or % health lower = bonus turn etc..

This is a bad analogy in my opinion as they share very little of the same mechanics.

Quite frankly, it's like I said, I will NOT be surprised if Kix isn't introduced as a part of the 501st. I also will not be shocked if he is.

It could still be abused. If Fives's unique is triggered, you get a supercharged Rex and Echo and if you could revive Fives (whether by Visas, a new clone or anyone else) you'd even get your durable tank back without any drawbacks.

It does not exclude the addition of a new clone (let it be Kix), but it doesn't hint it either. That failsafe needed to be added for current in-game mechanics anyway.

If they could be abused then why hasn't anyone found a way to abuse Old ben yet?

I will post it again as you clearly don't read everything properly.

"Giving a few buffs that can be dispelled and giving 170k worth of h/p 4-5k offence and 250speed are not the same. Having him revive and still having Rex and echo with Superman boost is just ridiculously OP"

Even if jolee revived old Ben 100 times and he gave those buffs each time he dies , it still couldn't hold a flame to what 5s gives when he dies you can't dispell what fives donates to his 501st clones.
having speed up(25%) for 2 turns and having an extra 250 speed for the rest of the encounter are so far apart. Now compare the rest of OB buffs to 5s max health protection and offence.

Have you thought that perhaps I did read everything clearly but you stated everything poorly?

Isn't that in the realm of possibility?

Saying his stats aren't that great to exploit is a poor point. He's been around for a long time and those stats would have helped with a lot of content could they have been exploited.

It's clear they have a safe guard in.

If you are actually saying the stat gains are so much that it'd be unfair to have a tank like him come back. It's not valid as Old Ben had stats at periods in the game that would have rivaled if not exceeded the bonuses clones get.

You are not right. Just to let you know. You really have no idea do you. Neither do I, hence the post.

Your reason, I do not agree with. Your logic seems flawed in my opinion. I can share that with you WITHOUT insulting you. You seem to take my disagreement as an insult. Hey, it's just a game, just a theory. No one is assaulting you the person.

And that should be fine. You don't agree with mine. Fine.

"taquillasun;c-1964659" wrote:

"Treeburner;c-1964640" wrote:

"taquillasun;c-1964620" wrote:

"RandomSithLord;c-1964618" wrote:

"taquillasun;c-1964604" wrote:

"Dirty_Litle_Smuggler;c-1964588" wrote:
It also prevents a “paper clone”, similar to paper zombie that would be intentionally sacrificed several times. Rex lead, Fives, Echo, Daka and paper Cody would crush raids. Mod fives for all offense and speed, minimal health (to get his ability to trigger as many times as possible), and you’d quickly have teams with over 800 speed, 10K offense and rising, with echo to double tap every time someone uses a basic.

This argument is based on the premise that every time 5's dies they would keep getting his bonus.

As I stated before, they already have Old Ben Kenobi and it clearly states "THE FIRST TIME" he dies.

5's does not revive himself like Zombi.

And Zombie doesn't give any bonuses when zombie dies.

You need the character in that receives bonuses for death or % health lower = bonus turn etc..

This is a bad analogy in my opinion as they share very little of the same mechanics.

Quite frankly, it's like I said, I will NOT be surprised if Kix isn't introduced as a part of the 501st. I also will not be shocked if he is.

It could still be abused. If Fives's unique is triggered, you get a supercharged Rex and Echo and if you could revive Fives (whether by Visas, a new clone or anyone else) you'd even get your durable tank back without any drawbacks.

It does not exclude the addition of a new clone (let it be Kix), but it doesn't hint it either. That failsafe needed to be added for current in-game mechanics anyway.

If they could be abused then why hasn't anyone found a way to abuse Old ben yet?

I will post it again as you clearly don't read everything properly.

"Giving a few buffs that can be dispelled and giving 170k worth of h/p 4-5k offence and 250speed are not the same. Having him revive and still having Rex and echo with Superman boost is just ridiculously OP"

Even if jolee revived old Ben 100 times and he gave those buffs each time he dies , it still couldn't hold a flame to what 5s gives when he dies you can't dispell what fives donates to his 501st clones.
having speed up(25%) for 2 turns and having an extra 250 speed for the rest of the encounter are so far apart. Now compare the rest of OB buffs to 5s max health protection and offence.

Have you thought that perhaps I did read everything clearly but you stated everything poorly?

Isn't that in the realm of possibility?

Saying his stats aren't that great to exploit is a poor point. He's been around for a long time and those stats would have helped with a lot of content could they have been exploited.

It's clear they have a safe guard in.

If you are actually saying the stat gains are so much that it'd be unfair to have a tank like him come back. It's not valid as Old Ben had stats at periods in the game that would have rivaled if not exceeded the bonuses clones get.

You are not right. Just to let you know. You really have no idea do you. Neither do I, hence the post.

Your reason, I do not agree with. Your logic seems flawed in my opinion. I can share that with you WITHOUT insulting you. You seem to take my disagreement as an insult. Hey, it's just a game, just a theory. No one is assaulting you the person.

And that should be fine. You don't agree with mine. Fine.

Honest question: What are you trying to argue/ask?

Why haven't people exploited Old Ben?
Because his buffs are meh, they are only given once (so no point in having him constantly die off), and he doesn't also give major buffs to certain teammates like 5's does with Echo.

Is there a reason that 5's cannot be revived?
Yes, it prevents him being able to die off quickly, pass all of his stats to his 501st allies, and then be revived and continue to boost his/Echo's stats through Domino Squad.

Would they refund a zeta if they brought in a 501st reviver?
No, why would they? The zeta doesn't change whether he can be revived or not.

We can be pretty sure there are other clones coming. There was an unsubtle hint in the Q&A re: Echo ability I think. There is a medic in the Geo TB who revives people (though plenty of PVE toons that never become playable who knows). There are other abilities kicking around that when the toon or ship was released made no sense (other droid ships boost when there weren't any).

Anyway, something is likely coming that will make this make more sense even though others have given arguments why it does already.

"taquillasun;c-1964411" wrote:
The first time Old ben is defeated....all allies gain offense up etc... they could have coded this just the same.

It's fair to ask, Why not simply do this?

Because that would make the squad too OP honestly. Since rework, clone squads are out there successfully taking on both revans squads, the GG nukes and 'earnestly' competing throughout the game. They are officially one of the most powerful squads in the game RN. A couple months ago this was NOT the case. So clearly the rework has improved them so much that they're actually a viable late game option now.

Check it out though; if you were able to *revive* the countering, taunting, 'very' high health/prot tank - WHILE Rex and Echo are smashing down having been beefed up HARD; receiving a boost to ALL of their major stats (including *speed*!) Equal to 5s' start of battle numbers on top of their own. Essentially you've created two squad members who are both as powerful as *two* standalone squad members each. They deal two toons' damage and have 2 toons' health. They hit twice for one attack by every other toon in the game, having the speed of 2 fully modded toons in one. And at *least* one of these bad boy double stat toons is guaranteed to be at full health halfway through the fight. That's some MEAN SH*T, dude think about that. But now you can revive a taunting countering high constitution tank that those beast can hide behind?! Straight up. If you could revive 5s in this squad - it would be so immaculately overpowered that no one would ever be able to beat them period. The "standard" squad composition for clones would just literally be; Shaak Ti (L), 5s, Echo, Rex - and old daka or some other reviver. Consider how brutally nasty 5s zeta REALLY *IS* - like I've just laid out to you - and you can imagine how exponentially more powerful the squad would be if it were possible to bring that taunting counter attacker tank back to protect the others after the stat boost. And 5s isn't half a slouch in the taunting tank biz either, he's def one of the more efficient tanks in the game without question...