Mod Question: Offense v. Critical Damage

"Anakin_Skywalker;c-1431125" wrote:

"Woodroward;c-1431017" wrote:
There's really 2 things to consider in Crit damage vs Offense mods: Crit Chance, and the value of your offense primaries/secondaries.

Firstly, in no situation (outside of a Nihilus lead) is an offense triangle better than a crit damage triangle. So to begin with the damages we are comparing are 186% crit damage vs. 216% crit damage, a difference of 30% crit damage. 100/(186/30) = a 16.12% increase in damage from crit damage mods. This is modified by your crit chance, but we'll get back to that.

The value of an offense set decreases as you pile more and more offense primaries and secondaries on that toon. To begin with, we are guaranteed to have at least one offense primary. This means that our initial offense before the set is counted is 105.88 100/(105.88/10) and is actually a 9.45% increase in damage. This means that our breakeven point before more offense primaries and secondaries are added in is 100/(16.12/9.45) = 58.8% crit chance.

Conversely, as each offense primary and secondary gets added it increases the damage that the crit damage set will provide, compared to the offense set where each one lowers the value of the damage.

Now if we are analyzing the difference between these two, it is probably because we are trying to maximize their damage, which means we are going to have a lot more offense on them than just the one primary. So let's see where the breakpoint lies when we have 3 offense primaries and a crit damage triangle: 100/((16.12 * (105.88/11.76 +1))/(100/(117.64/10))) 16.12 * ((105.88/11.76)/100 + 1) = 17.57% This is the value of a crit damage set with 3 offense primaries and a crit damage triangle. 100/(117.64/10)= 8.50 This is the value of the offense set with 3 offense primaries. So the breakeven point for crit chance with 3 offense primaries is 100/(17.57/8.5) = 48.37% crit chance to break even.

So lets do some numbers here to see what maximum possible offense primary and secondaries with a crit damage triangle will get us as the breakeven point. I will make some assumptions here. Firstly I will use 3000 damage as the base since that seems pretty average. Secondly I will assume that around 150 is the max flat offense secondary since I haven't seen much higher than that. Finally I will assume that 1.6% is around the max %offense secondary since I haven't seen much higher than that.

So at maximum offense, the offense set would make 3000 * 1.2244 + 6(150) + (3000 * .1) = 4873.2 offense. 100/(4873.2/300)= 6.156% increase in damage.

At maximum offense, the crit damage set would be (3000 * 1.2244 + 900)/(3000 * 1.0588) * 16.12 = 23.21% increase in damage.

So finally, 100/(23.21/6.156)= 26.52% crit for the breakeven point in this scenario.

What to takeaway from this: Offense mods are better in the beginning when you don't have a lot of crit chance or offense secondaries, but as you get more and bigger offense and crit chance secondaries, crit damage becomes better.

To put it another way, offense mods are better when you have a young account, but crit damage mods are likely to be better if you have an older account.

@Woodroward My math was not wrong one bit, but knowledge on mods might be. So offense bonuses from offense set is not % of %?
That said, 10% offense bonus from the set is 10% of no-mod damage, right?

Well then I gotta fix the whole math because the base assumption was wrong.

1) No crit damage primary mod
Base Damage×1.1 +Extra Damage from miscellaneous offense primary/secondary+ Base Damage×1.1×CC×0.5+ Extra Miscellaneous offense×CCx0.5
(Offense set)

vs.
(I'll call miscellaneous offense up from primary ^ secondaries as 'Extra')

(CD set)
Base Damage+Extra+(Base Damage+Extra)×0.8×CC

(Offense set)-(CD set)
= 0.1 Base Dmg - (Base dmg × CC× 0.25) -(0.3 ×Extra×CC)
ok so we can't determine a clear breakeven point. It not only depends on CC but also on Extra miscellaneous damage from primary/secondary.

However if 'Extra' is near 0, the result will be near as I calculated previously.
40% breakeven point for No CD primary triangle characters/46.xx% breakeven point for 36% CD primary triangle characters.

0.1-0.25CC-0.3CC × EP >0
(EP is the % of extra dmg out of original dmg. If it's 5.88%, the figure is 0.0588)

0.1 > (0.25+0.3EP)CC
CC <0.1/(0.25+0.3EP)
since the the addition of 0.3EP trivially increased the divider, the breakeven point will clearly bea little bit less than 40%.
So maybe 39.xx% mostly.

The case for crit dmg primary triangle is almost same as above.

CC <0.1/(0.214+0.3EP)
Again the breakeven point will be subtly lower than 46.73%. Somewhere 45~46% most likely.

Never said your math was wrong, just contributed what I knew to the conversation. Might have actually written the formulas wrong but my math is solid. It's based on a % of what you would see in a match rather than on what they call 100%

Like our 100% is really 105.88 % so adding 10% to make it hit 115.88% is not a 10% increase in damage, it's a 9.45% increase in damage.

Similarly we have 186% crit damage with a triangle. The set won't increase our damage by 30%, our damage will increase by 16.12% * our crit chance.

I mean you can base your math around what they call 100%, but it won't translate into what you're expecting in the match.