Mod Question: Offense v. Critical Damage

"DedrickRogue;c-1430634" wrote:

"Anakin_Skywalker;c-1430620" wrote:
(100/214) * 100% is about 46.73%.

So to sum it up:
1) your triangle primary =/= CD
then 40% is the turning point.
If your overall CC is over 40%, CD set is better. If lower, Offense set is better

2) your triangle primary = 36% CD
then 46.73% is the turning point.
If your overall CC is over 46.73%, CD set us better. If lower, Offense set is better


3) your triangle primary = 1~4* CD primary,
then somewhere between 40% and 46.73% is your turning point.

I'm not exactly the best at math, but I think your numbers are reversed.

You're saying assuming an even potential Offense, if you deal more Crit Damage, you need a higher Crit Chance to break even, which strikes me as backwards. You'd be able to Crit hit less often since the extra 36% Crit damage would make up for some missed critical hits, not the opposite.

Either I'm reading this wrong or you were supposed to subtract the 6.73% from 40, not add it.

Sorry but the math is right. cd primary makes cd set less worthy becuz 30% is not 30% of original cd. (not %of %) it's just +30%

I'm not good at explaining things plain and simple when the reality is not, and above explanation is the easiest way i could do
I did my best explaining it, so if you don't get it sorry I can't help that's my limit

@DedrickRogue I undestand it could be counterintuitive but it's not wrong.
Best thing I can suggest is either follow the math or this:
As I said, CD bonus is not % of %
so when increased from 150% to 180%(20% increase) it's relatively a bigger impact than when boosted from 186% to 216%. (16.13% increase).
So in the latter case (with cd primary), apparently cd set gives less improvement than in former case (16.13% compared to 20%)

Base character has 150% CD, add a triangle it's 36% more meaning 186% CD, full set adds 30% bring CD to 216%

You're saying with a higher CD %, you also need a higher CC % to even out to offense, correct? Because that isn't how common sense says it works. You wouldn't need to Crit hit as often because your Crits that do land are doing +66% damage over a "normal" critical, which means you can land less crits to get the same total damage output.

Either way, I'm out. Too late for this much math.

"DedrickRogue;c-1430652" wrote:
Base character has 150% CD, add a triangle it's 36% more meaning 186% CD, full set adds 30% bring CD to 216%

You're saying with a higher CD %, you also need a higher CC % to even out to offense, correct? Because that isn't how common sense says it works. You wouldn't need to Crit hit as often because your Crits that do land are doing +66% damage over a "normal" critical, which means you can land less crits to get the same total damage output.

Either way, I'm out. Too late for this much math.

Well that common sense is wrong. Because you didn't factor in the fact that you gain 10% offense (crit / non crit) by losing extra 30%. Sorry I don't want to convince you I don't need to. But don't just assume it's wrong and express it because you think it doesn't make sense.

Edit: do it this way, ask people around you who are good at math.(and preferably know stuffs about mods of SWGOH) You don't have to figure out yourself. They will tell you I'm right. It's not really difficult math. Not even. Not even using calculus, or integral or anything near that. It's just plain and simple +/-/×/÷. Just the words I added to explain it make it look long and difficult.

if your character is not at 60% CC then it might be better to increase offense instead.

Thrawn(when you don’t need him to go 1st/2nd), Tarkin, krennic, and MT all should have offense mods because of special damage. My MT has 6300 special damage and there isn’t many toons she can’t put into the yellow with her opening AOE. Add EP to that list with EP and Talzin benefitting the most because of their kit mechanics.

It’s the best way to boost Special damage because offense primaries are only 5.88%. And as a whole special damage toons have low crit chance

@StarWars2nd At your early stage, you might want a speed set for him before offense. Thrawn going fast is generally very important. He also isn’t the damage dealer so offense sets aren’t so important for him.

However, with zeta on unique and leading an empire squad, he will be countering a lot and the offense boost would make those counters count and his speed wouldn’t be as important.

In summary if he isn’t 150 speed leading empire, just go speed. As fat as you can get him.

It’s hard to keep him in fracture without an empire squad around him....so it comes down to the squad around him for his speed needs.

Speed secondaries and a speed set is best.

There's really 2 things to consider in Crit damage vs Offense mods: Crit Chance, and the value of your offense primaries/secondaries.

Firstly, in no situation (outside of a Nihilus lead) is an offense triangle better than a crit damage triangle. So to begin with the damages we are comparing are 186% crit damage vs. 216% crit damage, a difference of 30% crit damage. 100/(186/30) = a 16.12% increase in damage from crit damage mods. This is modified by your crit chance, but we'll get back to that.

The value of an offense set decreases as you pile more and more offense primaries and secondaries on that toon. To begin with, we are guaranteed to have at least one offense primary. This means that our initial offense before the set is counted is 105.88 100/(105.88/10) and is actually a 9.45% increase in damage. This means that our breakeven point before more offense primaries and secondaries are added in is 100/(16.12/9.45) = 58.8% crit chance.

Conversely, as each offense primary and secondary gets added it increases the damage that the crit damage set will provide, compared to the offense set where each one lowers the value of the damage.

Now if we are analyzing the difference between these two, it is probably because we are trying to maximize their damage, which means we are going to have a lot more offense on them than just the one primary. So let's see where the breakpoint lies when we have 3 offense primaries and a crit damage triangle: 100/((16.12 * (105.88/11.76 +1))/(100/(117.64/10))) 16.12 * ((105.88/11.76)/100 + 1) = 17.57% This is the value of a crit damage set with 3 offense primaries and a crit damage triangle. 100/(117.64/10)= 8.50 This is the value of the offense set with 3 offense primaries. So the breakeven point for crit chance with 3 offense primaries is 100/(17.57/8.5) = 48.37% crit chance to break even.

So lets do some numbers here to see what maximum possible offense primary and secondaries with a crit damage triangle will get us as the breakeven point. I will make some assumptions here. Firstly I will use 3000 damage as the base since that seems pretty average. Secondly I will assume that around 150 is the max flat offense secondary since I haven't seen much higher than that. Finally I will assume that 1.6% is around the max %offense secondary since I haven't seen much higher than that.

So at maximum offense, the offense set would make 3000 * 1.2244 + 6(150) + (3000 * .1) = 4873.2 offense. 100/(4873.2/300)= 6.156% increase in damage.

At maximum offense, the crit damage set would be (3000 * 1.2244 + 900)/(3000 * 1.0588) * 16.12 = 23.21% increase in damage.

So finally, 100/(23.21/6.156)= 26.52% crit for the breakeven point in this scenario.

What to takeaway from this: Offense mods are better in the beginning when you don't have a lot of crit chance or offense secondaries, but as you get more and bigger offense and crit chance secondaries, crit damage becomes better.

To put it another way, offense mods are better when you have a young account, but crit damage mods are likely to be better if you have an older account.