"CCyrilS;c-1972493" wrote:"SoonerJBD;c-1972488" wrote:"Nikoms565;c-1972486" wrote:
I'm going to type really slow so the OP understands :
Teams that "belong" in the top 10 (or top 20...or whatever arbitrary dividing line you've made up in your mind) are the ones that either through their own synergy or the weaknesses of the teams they are defeating, can beat the teams in front of them. The GG "nuke" squad happens to do both very efficiently.
Good day, sir.
By your logic, if a new mechanic were discovered that allowed G4 Jawas to climb in arena, that would be totally OK and not in need of attention from the devs. Cool story, bro.
No, it only highlights the fact that what one person considers "good enough" to belong in arena, another might not.
Your opinion is just that.
"SoonerJBD;c-1972496" wrote:"CCyrilS;c-1972493" wrote:"SoonerJBD;c-1972488" wrote:"Nikoms565;c-1972486" wrote:
I'm going to type really slow so the OP understands :
Teams that "belong" in the top 10 (or top 20...or whatever arbitrary dividing line you've made up in your mind) are the ones that either through their own synergy or the weaknesses of the teams they are defeating, can beat the teams in front of them. The GG "nuke" squad happens to do both very efficiently.
Good day, sir.
By your logic, if a new mechanic were discovered that allowed G4 Jawas to climb in arena, that would be totally OK and not in need of attention from the devs. Cool story, bro.
No, it only highlights the fact that what one person considers "good enough" to belong in arena, another might not.
Your opinion is just that.
I fully understand that crappy players who can’t be bothered to farm good mods or spend a dime to acquire anything in the game believe they should be entitled to climb to the top of arena without putting forth any effort. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. That does not mean everyone’s opinion is of equal value. The competitive balance of the game is harmed when these teams are able to climb. The devs have even mentioned this before when talking about how long they let metas go. And part of the problem is definitely that the last two Revan metas have been around for way too long. We desperately need a new meta.
"SoonerJBD;c-1972494" wrote:"Woodroward;c-1972482" wrote:"SoonerJBD;c-1972481" wrote:"Woodroward;c-1972451" wrote:"SoonerJBD;c-1972302" wrote:
It doesn’t require mods that are hard to acquire or special in any way. Most people probably had the necessary mods sitting unequipped already.
This is simply not true. The mods it requires to work well enough to take down reliced teams are NOT easy to acquire. They aren't easy to get and people didn't collect those types of mods before so they didn't have them laying around either. It took me a couple of months to farm up the right mods to be able to use the team effectively.
They only seem like crap mods because they don't require the stats that people usually think of as good. Except when reaching the pinnacle of proper modding and then it requires some pretty hefty speed secondaries.
I can guarantee that people who haven't already put effort into farming these weird types of mods for raiding or didn't put effort into farming mods for this team aren't beating reliced SE teams with mostly purple toons.
Well, if the mods on those SE teams are horrible I suppose. Mod farming is important for top places. Those SE teams should step up their game if they're getting beat by mostly purple teams. They are the ones whose mods say they shouldn't be in the top ranks.
Anyone who has been paying attention even a little bit has been saving high health mods, high offense mods and mods with high potency. Since very few other toons need those mods (except maybe the offense mods), there should be plenty lying around in your inventory unless you just negligently get rid of any mod that doesn’t have speed on it.
Yes, you can beat an SE squad with top end mods if you have an R7 GG with even remotely decent health mods. You can easily do so with G11 IG-88, IPD and BB-8.
It's not as simple as that you need about 80 speed, 40 cc and 60 potency for all of them in order to reliably beat anyone and to beat well modded relic teams at all. People don't have mods with all of those stats laying around. Don't need offense mods at all, the other stuff is hard enough to get right. Most people don't. That's why I hear people in my shard running Nuke teams with no purple characters complaining about being unable to beat full reliced well modded sith teams.
If people with mostly purple toons are beating full reliced SE teams it means 2 things are true:
1. That droid team has amazing mods that were very hard to come by
2. That SE team has crap mods and "shouldn't be in the top 50".
I couldn't even hit all my targets until I had T3 and 88 practically g13.
You keep making these pronouncements, but they are just factually wrong. G11 IG-88, BB-8 and IPD absolutely can beat top end SE teams with great mods. And it does not take “amazing” mods to do so. Anyone with an extensive mod collection could dig those mods up easily. I have made no effort to mod a GG nuke squad, and I’m absolutely certain I could easily get those stats with the mods I have lying around. That’s why people with 2 million GP in 3-4 year old shards are suddenly climbing with G11 Droids and R5 GG. Because it requires far less of an investment.
"CCyrilS;c-1972497" wrote:"SoonerJBD;c-1972496" wrote:"CCyrilS;c-1972493" wrote:"SoonerJBD;c-1972488" wrote:"Nikoms565;c-1972486" wrote:
I'm going to type really slow so the OP understands :
Teams that "belong" in the top 10 (or top 20...or whatever arbitrary dividing line you've made up in your mind) are the ones that either through their own synergy or the weaknesses of the teams they are defeating, can beat the teams in front of them. The GG "nuke" squad happens to do both very efficiently.
Good day, sir.
By your logic, if a new mechanic were discovered that allowed G4 Jawas to climb in arena, that would be totally OK and not in need of attention from the devs. Cool story, bro.
No, it only highlights the fact that what one person considers "good enough" to belong in arena, another might not.
Your opinion is just that.
I fully understand that crappy players who can’t be bothered to farm good mods or spend a dime to acquire anything in the game believe they should be entitled to climb to the top of arena without putting forth any effort. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. That does not mean everyone’s opinion is of equal value. The competitive balance of the game is harmed when these teams are able to climb. The devs have even mentioned this before when talking about how long they let metas go. And part of the problem is definitely that the last two Revan metas have been around for way too long. We desperately need a new meta.
Oh, I see the problem now. You think your opinion matters more.
"Woodroward;c-1972501" wrote:"SoonerJBD;c-1972494" wrote:"Woodroward;c-1972482" wrote:"SoonerJBD;c-1972481" wrote:"Woodroward;c-1972451" wrote:"SoonerJBD;c-1972302" wrote:
It doesn’t require mods that are hard to acquire or special in any way. Most people probably had the necessary mods sitting unequipped already.
This is simply not true. The mods it requires to work well enough to take down reliced teams are NOT easy to acquire. They aren't easy to get and people didn't collect those types of mods before so they didn't have them laying around either. It took me a couple of months to farm up the right mods to be able to use the team effectively.
They only seem like crap mods because they don't require the stats that people usually think of as good. Except when reaching the pinnacle of proper modding and then it requires some pretty hefty speed secondaries.
I can guarantee that people who haven't already put effort into farming these weird types of mods for raiding or didn't put effort into farming mods for this team aren't beating reliced SE teams with mostly purple toons.
Well, if the mods on those SE teams are horrible I suppose. Mod farming is important for top places. Those SE teams should step up their game if they're getting beat by mostly purple teams. They are the ones whose mods say they shouldn't be in the top ranks.
Anyone who has been paying attention even a little bit has been saving high health mods, high offense mods and mods with high potency. Since very few other toons need those mods (except maybe the offense mods), there should be plenty lying around in your inventory unless you just negligently get rid of any mod that doesn’t have speed on it.
Yes, you can beat an SE squad with top end mods if you have an R7 GG with even remotely decent health mods. You can easily do so with G11 IG-88, IPD and BB-8.
It's not as simple as that you need about 80 speed, 40 cc and 60 potency for all of them in order to reliably beat anyone and to beat well modded relic teams at all. People don't have mods with all of those stats laying around. Don't need offense mods at all, the other stuff is hard enough to get right. Most people don't. That's why I hear people in my shard running Nuke teams with no purple characters complaining about being unable to beat full reliced well modded sith teams.
If people with mostly purple toons are beating full reliced SE teams it means 2 things are true:
1. That droid team has amazing mods that were very hard to come by
2. That SE team has crap mods and "shouldn't be in the top 50".
I couldn't even hit all my targets until I had T3 and 88 practically g13.
You keep making these pronouncements, but they are just factually wrong. G11 IG-88, BB-8 and IPD absolutely can beat top end SE teams with great mods. And it does not take “amazing” mods to do so. Anyone with an extensive mod collection could dig those mods up easily. I have made no effort to mod a GG nuke squad, and I’m absolutely certain I could easily get those stats with the mods I have lying around. That’s why people with 2 million GP in 3-4 year old shards are suddenly climbing with G11 Droids and R5 GG. Because it requires far less of an investment.
You claimed that these mods didn't require any effort to farm whatsoever. I'm telling you I had to farm these mods up specifically because I didn't have them. When relics came out I had to change my modding and I still don't have all the right mods for it to work like it should.
All sorts of player in my shard don't have them available despite being top players for a long time because they aren't common laying around mods. Just because YOU happened to have them laying around doesn't mean most people do. In fact, most people do not.
You are telling me that people are running at least 3 purple droids and beating full reliced SE teams and don't have amazing mods? No way man, just no way. They don't have all those stats from the g12 gear so they had to make it up with mods and that means they have some insane mods. People in my shard can't win against full relic teams because they don't have the mods when none of their characters are purple.
So I keep making all these statements that are backed up by all the how to videos on how to gear and mod nuke and what I have seen is the most common experience people have (that they can't reach their benchmarks so their nuke doesn't really work). You keep saying these mods are easy to have and get based on nothing. Nothing supports that. All the evidence supports that NOT being the case.
"SoonerJBD;c-1972507" wrote:"Woodroward;c-1972501" wrote:"SoonerJBD;c-1972494" wrote:"Woodroward;c-1972482" wrote:"SoonerJBD;c-1972481" wrote:"Woodroward;c-1972451" wrote:"SoonerJBD;c-1972302" wrote:
It doesn’t require mods that are hard to acquire or special in any way. Most people probably had the necessary mods sitting unequipped already.
This is simply not true. The mods it requires to work well enough to take down reliced teams are NOT easy to acquire. They aren't easy to get and people didn't collect those types of mods before so they didn't have them laying around either. It took me a couple of months to farm up the right mods to be able to use the team effectively.
They only seem like crap mods because they don't require the stats that people usually think of as good. Except when reaching the pinnacle of proper modding and then it requires some pretty hefty speed secondaries.
I can guarantee that people who haven't already put effort into farming these weird types of mods for raiding or didn't put effort into farming mods for this team aren't beating reliced SE teams with mostly purple toons.
Well, if the mods on those SE teams are horrible I suppose. Mod farming is important for top places. Those SE teams should step up their game if they're getting beat by mostly purple teams. They are the ones whose mods say they shouldn't be in the top ranks.
Anyone who has been paying attention even a little bit has been saving high health mods, high offense mods and mods with high potency. Since very few other toons need those mods (except maybe the offense mods), there should be plenty lying around in your inventory unless you just negligently get rid of any mod that doesn’t have speed on it.
Yes, you can beat an SE squad with top end mods if you have an R7 GG with even remotely decent health mods. You can easily do so with G11 IG-88, IPD and BB-8.
It's not as simple as that you need about 80 speed, 40 cc and 60 potency for all of them in order to reliably beat anyone and to beat well modded relic teams at all. People don't have mods with all of those stats laying around. Don't need offense mods at all, the other stuff is hard enough to get right. Most people don't. That's why I hear people in my shard running Nuke teams with no purple characters complaining about being unable to beat full reliced well modded sith teams.
If people with mostly purple toons are beating full reliced SE teams it means 2 things are true:
1. That droid team has amazing mods that were very hard to come by
2. That SE team has crap mods and "shouldn't be in the top 50".
I couldn't even hit all my targets until I had T3 and 88 practically g13.
You keep making these pronouncements, but they are just factually wrong. G11 IG-88, BB-8 and IPD absolutely can beat top end SE teams with great mods. And it does not take “amazing” mods to do so. Anyone with an extensive mod collection could dig those mods up easily. I have made no effort to mod a GG nuke squad, and I’m absolutely certain I could easily get those stats with the mods I have lying around. That’s why people with 2 million GP in 3-4 year old shards are suddenly climbing with G11 Droids and R5 GG. Because it requires far less of an investment.
You claimed that these mods didn't require any effort to farm whatsoever. I'm telling you I had to farm these mods up specifically because I didn't have them. When relics came out I had to change my modding and I still don't have all the right mods for it to work like it should.
All sorts of player in my shard don't have them available despite being top players for a long time because they aren't common laying around mods. Just because YOU happened to have them laying around doesn't mean most people do. In fact, most people do not.
You are telling me that people are running at least 3 purple droids and beating full reliced SE teams and don't have amazing mods? No way man, just no way. They don't have all those stats from the g12 gear so they had to make it up with mods and that means they have some insane mods. People in my shard can't win against full relic teams because they don't have the mods when none of their characters are purple.
So I keep making all these statements that are backed up by all the how to videos on how to gear and mod nuke and what I have seen is the most common experience people have (that they can't reach their benchmarks so their nuke doesn't really work). You keep saying these mods are easy to have and get based on nothing. Nothing supports that. All the evidence supports that NOT being the case.
You don’t need great stats on anyone other than T3 and GG. Putting together crit chance and potency mods is not that difficult for anyone with any sort of mod collection. I’m sorry you didn’t have them. Everyone in my guild has them sitting unused in their inventory.
"SoonerJBD;c-1972504" wrote:"CCyrilS;c-1972497" wrote:"SoonerJBD;c-1972496" wrote:"CCyrilS;c-1972493" wrote:"SoonerJBD;c-1972488" wrote:"Nikoms565;c-1972486" wrote:
I'm going to type really slow so the OP understands :
Teams that "belong" in the top 10 (or top 20...or whatever arbitrary dividing line you've made up in your mind) are the ones that either through their own synergy or the weaknesses of the teams they are defeating, can beat the teams in front of them. The GG "nuke" squad happens to do both very efficiently.
Good day, sir.
By your logic, if a new mechanic were discovered that allowed G4 Jawas to climb in arena, that would be totally OK and not in need of attention from the devs. Cool story, bro.
No, it only highlights the fact that what one person considers "good enough" to belong in arena, another might not.
Your opinion is just that.
I fully understand that crappy players who can’t be bothered to farm good mods or spend a dime to acquire anything in the game believe they should be entitled to climb to the top of arena without putting forth any effort. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. That does not mean everyone’s opinion is of equal value. The competitive balance of the game is harmed when these teams are able to climb. The devs have even mentioned this before when talking about how long they let metas go. And part of the problem is definitely that the last two Revan metas have been around for way too long. We desperately need a new meta.
Oh, I see the problem now. You think your opinion matters more.
No, I think it is worth more because it is based on clearly articulated logic and reason. I know we live during a moment in time when people think their uneducated, logically fallacious arguments are important and valuable, but that’s not actually the case.
"SoonerJBD;c-1972504" wrote:"CCyrilS;c-1972497" wrote:"SoonerJBD;c-1972496" wrote:"CCyrilS;c-1972493" wrote:"SoonerJBD;c-1972488" wrote:"Nikoms565;c-1972486" wrote:
I'm going to type really slow so the OP understands :
Teams that "belong" in the top 10 (or top 20...or whatever arbitrary dividing line you've made up in your mind) are the ones that either through their own synergy or the weaknesses of the teams they are defeating, can beat the teams in front of them. The GG "nuke" squad happens to do both very efficiently.
Good day, sir.
By your logic, if a new mechanic were discovered that allowed G4 Jawas to climb in arena, that would be totally OK and not in need of attention from the devs. Cool story, bro.
No, it only highlights the fact that what one person considers "good enough" to belong in arena, another might not.
Your opinion is just that.
I fully understand that crappy players who can’t be bothered to farm good mods or spend a dime to acquire anything in the game believe they should be entitled to climb to the top of arena without putting forth any effort. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. That does not mean everyone’s opinion is of equal value. The competitive balance of the game is harmed when these teams are able to climb. The devs have even mentioned this before when talking about how long they let metas go. And part of the problem is definitely that the last two Revan metas have been around for way too long. We desperately need a new meta.
Oh, I see the problem now. You think your opinion matters more.
I know we live during a moment in time when people think their uneducated, logically fallacious arguments are important and valuable, but that’s not actually the case.
"Woodroward;c-1972271" wrote:"DarkHelmet1138;c-1972246" wrote:"Woodroward;c-1972209" wrote:"DarkHelmet1138;c-1972191" wrote:"Woodroward;c-1972171" wrote:"DarkHelmet1138;c-1972154" wrote:"Woodroward;c-1972146" wrote:"DarkHelmet1138;c-1972138" wrote:"Woodroward;c-1972136" wrote:"DarkHelmet1138;c-1972135" wrote:"Woodroward;c-1972116" wrote:"DarkHelmet1138;c-1971974" wrote:
For those that don't like the gg nuke team, it won't last long once the meta shifts. It requires the opponent to have lowered defense from ferocity to work.
This is not true. They land enough debuffs on their own to equal ferocity. Ferocity just replaces their debuffs as they drop off. This team will beat any team without tm on damage or some high tenacity schtick.
Do you really think the next meta won't have ridiculously high defense or tenacity or something that makes them also counter gg as well as darth revan?
It's not just that ferocity is a debuff that makes darth revan vulnerable. Ferocity turns your defense into offense, making that team particularly vulnerable.
I never said that any team could win. But there are plenty of ways already to control gg even at relic 7 with g12 toons alone. Stun, fracture, tenacity up, protection up, just to name a few.
I run ep lead with triumvirate against it in arena and gg usually gets at least one aoe off but unlike the darth revan most of my team survives and can control the team long enough to annhilate him fairly easily.
A bastilla lead works too because the protection up allows you to take enough hits to survive him.
There are already too many ways to counter him out to have him be arena viable in a non darth revan arena.
Who was predicting what the next META will have? Certainly not I. I was merely correcting an erroneous statement that GG nuke works because of Ferocity... it does not.
Ferocity lowers the defense of the sith empire characters. This plays a role in them being one shot by his aoe. I have run teams that don't use ferocity and they typically survive a few attacks and all you have to do is kill gg and the battle is won.
Look the only time Sith Empire actually has any defense whatsoever against the GG nuke team that can be affected by ferocity is when Darth Malak is below 50% health, and then it's only him, and only marginal.
It literally makes no difference to the GG nuke team. They have removed all the SE's defense before ferocity comes into play in between their own defense pen, the defense pen they get from T3, and defense down from 88.
Ferocity was the idea behind the original idea for the nuke team, but the evolved nuke team could really kind of care less about it.
Nothing in gg kit lowers defense for the gg nuke team. His leadership lowers it by 50% but gg isn't in the lead for the nuke team.
Ferocity lowers se defense by 15% per stack. So it does come into play.
Look I've done the math. First 88 cuts everyone's defense in half. Then T3 gives everyone massive defense pen which when combined with their own has a greater total than the defense the sith empire have left.
This isn't supposition. This is why they say T3's 2nd zeta and the g12 Stun Gun are mandatory for the comp to work.
Sorry but you're wrong. Ferocity can't lower their defense past 0%. it doesn't help like that. Nor is it even necessary.
I'm assuming you're referring to the defense down that ig has a 50% chance to land. Since ferocity also lowers tenacity by 15% per stack, it plays a role on whether the defense down lands. If it does, you are correct, that the defense can go to zero where ferocity doesn't matter for dmg.
But it does raise the chance of the debuff landing in the first place and it lowers defense in the case that the defense down is resisted, which from the kit it is resisted quite often. It only has a 50% chance on getting past the first test. Then it has a 15% chance of being resisted even with high potency so a 42% chance to land if you have 100% more potency than your opponent has tenacity and less if you have low potency or they have high tenacity.
But against teams tgat don't have ferocity and have some decent tenacity (either naturally or through mods) the defence dow is going to land on one or two characters on average. On a sith empire team it'll still be 3 or so but they all effectively give themselves 75% defense down whether it lands or not. That's enough to make one shotting them easy.
Actually the AoE that lands the defense down will be used before anyone has ferocity on the SE side. Also 85% is the maximum debuff rate, and that can be reached by having 15% less potency than your opponent has tenacity. Well modded Nuke teams have 100% potency, so teams with 115% tenacity or more will have a chance of getting more than minimum resists on debuffs. Really ferocity doesn't help debuffs land for the nuke team either.
I take first in arena with GG Nuke every day. Yesterday I defeated a Reliced Padme team with it to take first.
For IG to land the debuff it goes through 3 tests.
First it only has a 50% chance to try per his kit. Most newer kits skip this one and have 100% chance to try.
Second it has to get through the 15% resist chance.
Then if it gets that far, it does the tenacity/potency check. Basically tenacity minus potency equals chance to land with thos test.
Ferocity does play a role in that last test if it's on a character.
And as for your second point, padme teams aren't that great on defense. I beat them when I see them easily as well. All it takes is thrawn fracturing padme and the team falls apart.
And my original point wasn't that darth revan was the only team that gg nuke could beat on offense only that when the meta shifts and there are less darth revan teams to prey on, there will be less gg nuke teams since they work particularly well vs darth revan and not much better than other teams vs other teams. And they don't hold on defense all that well as it is. Or at least it's easy for me to send in a three meta ago team with only fair mods and mostly g12 and have a nearly 100% win rate.
I never said it wasn't viable to climb just that it'll likely not be a counter for the next meta. Though I'll admit my experience is mostly with the team on defense and yours appears to be on offense. That could make the difference.
My only point is that ferocity doesn't make or break that team, it's viable all on its own outside very high tenacity teams or ones with tm on damage effects.
That's what I said to begin with, everything else was in support of that.
It's a really good team that can beat a lot of teams outside of its few weaknesses. Lots of cleanse is another weakness, but if the team is weak they'll die even with lots of cleanse.
"SoonerJBD;c-1972284" wrote:"DarkHelmet1138;c-1972266" wrote:"TVF;c-1972264" wrote:"Cardiff0;c-1972247" wrote:
Tbh most of these comments are super unrelated to OPs point and unhelpful and that’s why he is having to say the same thing over and over.
People disagreeing that anything needs to be done /= unrelated comments
Either that or it's trolling. Because the op posts a "wah, I don't like this team post," we should all just echo it and demand a nerf.
The comments are unrelated because a bunch of you are using a straw man. My original point (which has been repeated many times now) was that people shouldn’t be able to climb with crappy mods and mostly G11 toons on their squad. Seriously, go back and read the first line of the original post. I would have no problem with this team if it required G12/13 on all the toons and maybe at least one competitive speed set. My problem is not that I can’t beat this team (I can) or that I fall out of the Top 20 now (I don’t) or whatever other made up nonsense you want to ascribe to me. My words have been very clear that my issue with this team is that it allows people to climb to top ranks with purple gear on three toons and without mods that would normally be required to be competitive.
