Forum Discussion

almightywood's avatar
6 years ago

Proper modding strategy. Maximize your gains from mods!

This is not a thread to explain what the best mods are for certain characters, this will explain the best mods in general by comparing the sources we have.

First let's get to the theory. For each stat there are up to 4 different ways to increase it through mods: Set, Primary Stat, % Secondary, Flat Secondary.

For our purposes, we need to set a value to each of these that correlates with the others. The most common theme is the set=primary=secondary. So this is the baseline. Now this obviously isn't always the case, and that's exactly the point of what we're examining here.

When something has a higher value than the others, that is the source we wish to pursue it from. When something has a lesser value than the others, that is the source we wish to avoid it from if possible.

So to begin with I'm going to put up a chart showing the maximum values for stats in each of the critical areas.


Now as for whether or not flat or %secondaries are better, it has to be taken on a case by case basis, but I will say that with G13, %secondaries tend to rule the day. That being said we will mainly be comparing % since that's what most primaries and sets are anyway.

So, some analysis. We can see that Defense has a higher % for the set, but Primary and secondary are about equal. If I was trying to reach a certain amount of defense I would attempt to increase it first with the set, then with the secondary, and the primary would be my last resort.

The reasoning is taking the boosted stat source first at all costs, and if a primary and secondary are equal, I want to save that primary slot for a boosted primary if possible.

Speed can only get up to 19 from the set bonus so obviously we would prefer primaries and secondaries over speed sets if possible.

Offense is a 4 piece set so we halve it's value. It has a value of 7.5 compared to 8.5 primary, and 8.46 secondary. We can see that the secondary takes priority here followed by the primary, and then the set itself would be a last resort since it has a decreased relative value.

Protection gets better gains from primaries than Secondaries (going by % still of course)

Tenacity and Potency both have the same priority order: Primary>Set>Secondary.

Crit Chance is interesting. Primary is best, then secondary and then set. The Crit Chance set bonus is actually pretty much garbage compared to the other sources of it.

Crit Damage has only 2 sources and the triangle is better than the set.

Health. The primary is the best, which is surprising since it is available in so many slots. It's also interesting that the secondary actually gets higher than the set bonus.

So We have 4 poor sets (speed, offense, Health, Crit Chance), 3 mediocre sets (Tenacity, Potency, Crit Damage) and 1 good set (defense) when we compare them with other modding sources.

Then we have amazing primaries (health, Tenacity, Potency, Protection, Crit Chance, Crit Damage) and mediocre primaries (Offense, Speed, Defense)

Finally we have good secondaries (Defense, Speed, Offense, Potency, Crit Chance, Health) and mediocre secondaries (Prot, Tenacity)

So in comparing all these we can see which areas we should prioritize getting which stats to maximize our potential.

  • Meeting Benchmarks Part 2.

    So by using the above post we can see which source of a stat is the most effective. But there's still another level of selecting secondaries that we can delve into.

    Secondaries are very complex. We have 6 mods with 4 secondaries each. Each of those mods can have up to 4 secondary upgrades beyond those.

    Personally I like to call the secondaries that appear free procs, and the upgrades extra procs. There's a reasoning behind this. We can completely focus on 4 stats with these secondaries (presuming we get the mods we need anyway).

    So modding any character that has 4 stat needs or less becomes relatively simple then. If they have less than 4 needs we can often double down on one or more of them through % and flat secondaries.

    If they have 5 or more stat needs it can become more complicated, but it all depends on the level of that need as well. I was able to meet 5 stat needs and completely sell out on a stat recently because I was able to split 2 of the needs between the 6 mods and still reach my benchmarks (mathematically of course, I don't actually have the mod depth to do so yet).

    But in order to determine what our ideal mod setup is, we can use the following table to determine whether our benchmarks can be reached with free procs, or if we'll need extra procs, and how many if we will.




    Free procs are just that. They are the best place to start building any stat (unless we have 5 or more priorities, then it's situational). To figure out what amount of a stat we can get for "free" we take the individual proc value, multiply it by the 6e conversion % and then multiply by 6. This is the maximum amount of a stat from a secondary we can get without having to use extra procs.

    So, for instance, I can get 14.04%cc from single procs on 6 6e mods. This is without using up any primary or set stats or even using up any extra procs.

    By combining the use of whether to go for primary set or secondary as well as knowing how much of a secondary we can get for free, modding towards a character's premiere state becomes a measured path that depends on time and mod rolls. But it also lets us identify which mods we want to grab from the store more as well. It helps us know which mods to upgrade too.
  • "Jarvind;c-1952905" wrote:
    MOAR SPEED.

    The only modding "strategy" that matters 98% of the time.


    Only to a point. Someone with 2 more speed on their characters on mismatched mods with unhelpful other secondaries will still likely lose to a well matched set of mods with the 2 less speed on everyone.

    For instance: if your GG is a little faster than mine but mine has a cd triangle and yours doesn't, I'll still end up winning in the long run of that one on one.

    This is a strategy for maximizing multiple stats so you have as much room as possible to sell out on 1 stat.
  • Now the final step in comparative analysis is to set the secondary procs as equal and measure the value of primary stats and set bonuses in terms of procs. So to finish I give you this chart that equates primary and set values with number of secondary procs they are equal to:



    A value of 5 is average, Values above that are good, below it are bad.

    We can see that tenacity, potency and crit chance primaries all have a really good value in terms of secondary procs, whereas Pretty much only defense and tenacity sets have good value in terms of secondary procs, and cc's value is atrocious.

    Speed set would be 1.53721 procs at best but it could be much worse. Which makes it very bad at it's very best since 5 is basically 0 (below it is negative, above it is positive). CD triangle has a 2.8 value compared to the set. Can't compare CD secondaries because there are none. Offense, CD and Speed set values were halved since they are 4 piece sets.
  • This is awesome. Obviously rngesus is what it comes down to, but this is a nice clear guide on what truly is good
  • Agree. Good stuff. Any chanve we could ask for a spreadsheet?

    And Although I agree speed is extremely important there are a number of toons and teams where it is secondary. I have at least 2 teams where tenacity or potency are the primary modding concern. Seems to work ok.
  • Sorry. Not necessary. But the kind where people normally store data in rows and columns. ;)

    I didnt know the max on some of the secondaries. I know I have a 9+ Tenacity and an 8.6ish crit chance.

    But your chart and post are helpful and would be nice if preserved someplace besides just forum. ;)
  • Very good post.
    Although, there is a thing that has been left out of the calculations involving secondaries: only with sheer luck you can get the max values. With very good rools you can get to 85-90% at most
  • Vaderizer's avatar
    Vaderizer
    Seasoned Newcomer
    MOAR SPEED.

    The only modding "strategy" that matters 98% of the time.
  • "VonZant;c-1952964" wrote:
    Agree. Good stuff. Any chanve we could ask for a spreadsheet?

    And Although I agree speed is extremely important there are a number of toons and teams where it is secondary. I have at least 2 teams where tenacity or potency are the primary modding concern. Seems to work ok.


    Like what kind of spreadsheet exactly?
  • "Juzz;c-1953598" wrote:
    Very good post.
    Although, there is a thing that has been left out of the calculations involving secondaries: only with sheer luck you can get the max values. With very good rools you can get to 85-90% at most


    Thank you, and you're right. I'd like to find a chart of minimum secondary proc values somewhere to make determining the average proc size easier (though mine would be based on possibility rather than probability).

    I didn't mention that point mainly because this strategy identifies the ideal modding scenario. Even if we don't get maximum secondary rolls, the best mod setup is likely to still involve going for the same set and primary bonuses. So basically it doesn't really change the strategy, but it could impact expectations from modding.