"JohnnySteelAlpha;78006" wrote:
Let's make sure we're not losing sight of the forest for the trees here. The big takeaway here isn't "x build and x toons" beat "x speed team." The big revelation here - and this SHOULD change people's views on the game and balance in general - is that you CAN tank vs. this DPS squad and make it a turn based game. The game DOES have much more balance than everyone (including me even) realized. In fact - the game actually looks to be pretty well balanced when you're fighting on the extremes.
Yes, I understand that this is your "big revelation". But while I appreciate the research, I don't agree with your conclusions.
Of course if you specifically tailor team A to beat team B, and you have access to everything maxed out, you will be able to find a combination that works. But the fact that this much tailoring is required pretty much proves the point that the Poe / massive damage teams are overpowered.
While your setup may work, there are many other team concepts that get completely obliterated by these teams, often without even getting a turn. There is very little build diversity, and that is the real issue, not a complete inability to beat Poe.
How would a defense-based team do? Destroyed.
Healer-based? Destroyed.
Nightsisters? Destroyed.
Counter-attacker team? Destroyed.
Stun-based team? Destroyed unless they get very lucky.
Traditional droid team not using Poe? Not sure, but I'd imagine they'd have a hard time.
Furthermore, I think your team construction is somewhat artificial here because you are deliberately not using Poe. If you sub him in for someone else here, I think the team works even better, and if your Poe goes first you don't have a chance to win -- you win. We are still back where we were, with everyone having a good reason to run Poe except for very specialized teams.
"JohnnySteelAlpha;78006" wrote:
If everyone is being open to new information and not stuck on their prior arguments and beliefs - than this should open people's eyes to other possibilities and approaches. You can hit this team back - even with Poe you do have a turn meter based game - now the challenge is what can you put together to hit them back effectively.
Of course you can hit it back. That's not really the point. If you have to design a team specifically to beat another team, then that itself indicative of a problem. There should be a diverse array of teams, not just "Poe+DPS" and "attempts to beat Poe+DPS".
This isn't about me not being open to new information. I'm a scientist/technologist and I am happy to evaluate new information and admit when I am wrong. I just don't happen to agree with you here.
"JohnnySteelAlpha;78006" wrote:
Further...this is JUST like the first initial attempt here. Poe has only been turn 1 for what, less than 2 weeks? This isn't done.
True, it isn't. But only whales have the diversity of characters already sitting around to try these different combinations. 99% of players do not, and it would actually be foolish for them to attempt this when a major update is around the corner. This is not to diminish your contribution here, which is very useful and interesting. It just doesn't really apply to most people.
Which is easier for a typical F2P or light P2P: sticking Poe on their team and becoming "part of the problem" or trying to find a replacement for Old Ben (who really HAS no replacement)?
There are countermeasures for Poe, but the best one for most players is: use Poe yourself. That is the problem with Poe.
"JohnnySteelAlpha;78006" wrote:
What I think happened here is that mostly people had built toons and teams around moderate to low health heroes such that rosters weren't equipped to challenge this meta well.
Why should it be necessary to stack my team with tanks and AoEs? What if I want to build a different type of team?
Proper balance should mean that characters with low and moderate health are equipped to still be competitive. They shouldn't be automatic one-shot kills on the first round. THAT is the real problem. You have characters who are SUPPOSED to have compensating factors, such as defense up or self-heals, and they have been rendered utterly useless by nonsense like FOTPs that do 12,000 damage on the first round.
By my count, over half of the characters in the game can be one-shot before they even get a turn. (Edit: if you add an expose in there, it's more like 2/3!) That's ridiculous, regardless of possible counter-measures. It's bad design to have a turn-based game where one build can ensure that the other team doesn't get a turn until it's too late to win. There's just nothing more to it than that -- the game as it is right now is badly designed and balanced.
Forcing everyone into cookie-cutter builds designed to counter other cookie-cutter builds doesn't solve the problem, it compounds it.
