What to do about Royal Guard

"TheLegendOfKimy;325565" wrote:
Also Qgj, Ventress and who ever else can remove taunt counters him.

Nothing counters him. I'm playing on new server. Several whales are few lvls above anyone else. Only they have fully starred RG's with precrafted gears. When they use their RG in defense, hiding Daka, Rey and Leia behind him, nobody can move them from their rank. They can go on vacation for a week and they will be still holding the rank positions. It is autowin. If these people, for some reason are not using RG, they are beatable. Once putting RG in their teams, it's mission impossible. RG is OP in this stage of the game development.

I really don't understand the consternation over RG. Everyone and their mother has QGJ from the speed meta, did people just automatically assume he's garbage now if you don't use him as lead? He's still an excellent DPS, and Humbling Blow is a very hard counter to RG's auto taunt. Unless you're running a team with bad DPS, you can easily get one of your opponent's toons below 50% health in the opening round. Then QGJ dispels RG's taunt in round 2, with the added bonus of getting offense up. You then go back to nuking the same toon and kill it. If you popped your big CDs in the opening round, by the time you get another toon down to 50% health Humbling Blow might be off cooldown again. If not then you might have to whittle RG down a bit, which isn't a bad strategy anyway as he can't stun if he's below 50% health.

I really think people are overreacting a bit too RG. Yes it's a powerful character, but also completely predictable (which I find FAR less annoying than the Dooku RNG-fest). If your strategy is to hammer on RG until he's dead then of course you're going to find him frustrating to go up against...

"int3ns1fy;326105" wrote:
I really don't understand the consternation over RG. Everyone and their mother has QGJ from the speed meta, did people just automatically assume he's garbage now if you don't use him as lead? He's still an excellent DPS, and Humbling Blow is a very hard counter to RG's auto taunt. Unless you're running a team with bad DPS, you can easily get one of your opponent's toons below 50% health in the opening round. Then QGJ dispels RG's taunt in round 2, with the added bonus of getting offense up. You then go back to nuking the same toon and kill it. If you popped your big CDs in the opening round, by the time you get another toon down to 50% health Humbling Blow might be off cooldown again. If not then you might have to whittle RG down a bit, which isn't a bad strategy anyway as he can't stun if he's below 50% health.

I really think people are overreacting a bit too RG. Yes it's a powerful character, but also completely predictable (which I find FAR less annoying than the Dooku RNG-fest). If your strategy is to hammer on RG until he's dead then of course you're going to find him frustrating to go up against...

QGJ is definitely a good counter to RG. Right now the only viable one, I'd say. A few outliers may use Mace and just accept that he sucks on defense. But QGJ is by general consensus the best dispeller available.

However, QGJ will very likely spend a lot of time stunned. Especially on defense. But the AI Dooku is also fond of targeting Jedi, I suspect. Battles are also messy nowadays. If you've brought a toon to <50% and are forced to spend a few turns hacking away at RG before QGJ can go and remove the taunt, your target can often heal up due to passive heals or health steal, bringing it into green. Meaning you need to one shot it to keep RG from undoing your work.

This, once again, puts us in a situation where the heavy hitters end up being way superior to the medium hitters. This is one of the things this update was supposed to remedy, the way I've understood it at least.

RG just forces you to strategize much more than any other tank in the game. This is becoming very obvious after the introduction of Protection. I'm not convinced that is a good thing.

Royal Guard Fix

Taunt can only go off once every 3 turns.
Taunt can not go off while stunned (like he currently can)

The health is fine My maxed out initiate has 23k hp's with 17k protection.

It's his unending ability to taunt, while stunned or not that makes him OP.

You could always just add in a Asajj Ventress, she is pretty reliable at dispelling the taunt. I haven't had an issue TBH against a RG, I do run a NS team though with Han, and I can usually take out RG before they do to much damage, and if he gets a taunt I dispell it, then kill the a guy with my AOE on Asajj to reset he Debuff then rinse and repeat RG is not hard at all.

Lol just went against a team with RG, GS, Bariss, Sid and IG-88, I lost Han after I killed RG but got him back with Daka then finished off the fight with protection on 3 of my guys. RG is a joke.

I run Asajj, Han, Talia, Daka, and Initiate.

"Nonemo;326147" wrote:

"int3ns1fy;326105" wrote:
I really don't understand the consternation over RG. Everyone and their mother has QGJ from the speed meta, did people just automatically assume he's garbage now if you don't use him as lead? He's still an excellent DPS, and Humbling Blow is a very hard counter to RG's auto taunt. Unless you're running a team with bad DPS, you can easily get one of your opponent's toons below 50% health in the opening round. Then QGJ dispels RG's taunt in round 2, with the added bonus of getting offense up. You then go back to nuking the same toon and kill it. If you popped your big CDs in the opening round, by the time you get another toon down to 50% health Humbling Blow might be off cooldown again. If not then you might have to whittle RG down a bit, which isn't a bad strategy anyway as he can't stun if he's below 50% health.

I really think people are overreacting a bit too RG. Yes it's a powerful character, but also completely predictable (which I find FAR less annoying than the Dooku RNG-fest). If your strategy is to hammer on RG until he's dead then of course you're going to find him frustrating to go up against...

QGJ is definitely a good counter to RG. Right now the only viable one, I'd say. A few outliers may use Mace and just accept that he sucks on defense. But QGJ is by general consensus the best dispeller available.

However, QGJ will very likely spend a lot of time stunned. Especially on defense. But the AI Dooku is also fond of targeting Jedi, I suspect. Battles are also messy nowadays. If you've brought a toon to <50% and are forced to spend a few turns hacking away at RG before QGJ can go and remove the taunt, your target can often heal up due to passive heals or health steal, bringing it into green. Meaning you need to one shot it to keep RG from undoing your work.

This, once again, puts us in a situation where the heavy hitters end up being way superior to the medium hitters. This is one of the things this update was supposed to remedy, the way I've understood it at least.

RG just forces you to strategize much more than any other tank in the game. This is becoming very obvious after the introduction of Protection. I'm not convinced that is a good thing.

Says Who??

Asajj if played right is far better than QGJ

"Alexone;327325" wrote:

"christopher152003;327311" wrote:
Lol just went against a team with RG, GS, Bariss, Sid and IG-88, I lost Han after I killed RG but got him back with Daka then finished off the fight with protection on 3 of my guys. RG is a joke.

I run Asajj, Han, Talia, Daka, and Initiate.

Was that gear 9 or gear 8 RG? Gear 8 7* RG is not or should not be a concern for anyone.

Top 10 what do you think? My Initiate is GL9 and way more of a beast than RG is, I can dispell RG just about every time he taunts, because of Asajj. In that last fight I just tapped Han's Taunt and I was able to take out RG before he was unstunned. Do you really think that with Asajj, as lead and daka, Talia and Initiate getting 3 turns per round is gonna lose?

If you have enough speed it can still be the Meta.

Its about TM control and having good speed and good damage.


Han
speed 121

Han has a 25% chance to remove 30% TM from each enemy at the start of each of his turns. In addition Han has a 25% chance to remove 10% TM when ever he is damaged.

Han Taunts for 3 turns, and all other allies gain 30% TM, in addition all other allies gain 20% TM whenever han is damaged.

Asajj
speed 114

Nightsister allies gain 28 sped and have a 25% chance to remove 10% TM when they damage an enemy.

Dispell all positive effects from all enemies and Asajj recovers 40% of her max health. For each effect dispelled this way Asajj recovers an additional 6% max health and has a 50% chance to remove 10% TM

Talia
speed 138

Talia consumes 20% of her max health. Each Ally recovers 40% of their max health and gains 30% TM. Talia has a 40% chance to also Gain 25% TM. (next level gives a 15% bonus effect chance Requires new omega which I have plenty of)

Daka Is a stun machine.
speed 174

Initiate has 23k HP's with 17k protection and has almost a guaranteed crit with her special.
speed 140

If i put Acolyte in
Speed 167

Everyone but Daka and Han have LS, with Talia's giving 100% of damage done back, and Asajj has an Aoe that LS everyone and fills her up from a sliver.

"christopher152003;327319" wrote:

"Nonemo;326147" wrote:

"int3ns1fy;326105" wrote:
I really don't understand the consternation over RG. Everyone and their mother has QGJ from the speed meta, did people just automatically assume he's garbage now if you don't use him as lead? He's still an excellent DPS, and Humbling Blow is a very hard counter to RG's auto taunt. Unless you're running a team with bad DPS, you can easily get one of your opponent's toons below 50% health in the opening round. Then QGJ dispels RG's taunt in round 2, with the added bonus of getting offense up. You then go back to nuking the same toon and kill it. If you popped your big CDs in the opening round, by the time you get another toon down to 50% health Humbling Blow might be off cooldown again. If not then you might have to whittle RG down a bit, which isn't a bad strategy anyway as he can't stun if he's below 50% health.

I really think people are overreacting a bit too RG. Yes it's a powerful character, but also completely predictable (which I find FAR less annoying than the Dooku RNG-fest). If your strategy is to hammer on RG until he's dead then of course you're going to find him frustrating to go up against...

QGJ is definitely a good counter to RG. Right now the only viable one, I'd say. A few outliers may use Mace and just accept that he sucks on defense. But QGJ is by general consensus the best dispeller available.

However, QGJ will very likely spend a lot of time stunned. Especially on defense. But the AI Dooku is also fond of targeting Jedi, I suspect. Battles are also messy nowadays. If you've brought a toon to <50% and are forced to spend a few turns hacking away at RG before QGJ can go and remove the taunt, your target can often heal up due to passive heals or health steal, bringing it into green. Meaning you need to one shot it to keep RG from undoing your work.

This, once again, puts us in a situation where the heavy hitters end up being way superior to the medium hitters. This is one of the things this update was supposed to remedy, the way I've understood it at least.

RG just forces you to strategize much more than any other tank in the game. This is becoming very obvious after the introduction of Protection. I'm not convinced that is a good thing.

Says Who??

Asajj if played right is far better than QGJ

I'll just copypaste what I said about Ventress in another thread:

She isn't very reliable in her dispel. Her AoE is reasonably strong but nowadays it's extremely hard to get an opponent toon to where it will be killed by an AoE. Meaning she very likely won't be refreshing her cooldowns. This makes her skill set a lot less potent than it could and should have been.

Also, there is the matter that she's rather slow. This isn't such a big problem anymore since battles take longer than just a few turns. But it still means she deals a LOT less damage over the course of a single battle than for instance Ahsoka does. Also, if you need to remove a taunt, statistically speaking, due to her lack of speed you'll be using a lot more turns in vain, hacking away at the enemy tank before Ventress finally goes up and can dispel.

Pair these two factors (slowness and ineffective skill set) with the fact that this update didn't give her much of a protection bonus (~5K). Meaning relative to other slow characters, she really missed out on the survivability that this patch was supposed to bring in.

While I love Ventress as a character, these aspects combined just make her not worth it to farm and use, in my opinion.

"christopher152003;327334" wrote:

"Alexone;327325" wrote:

"christopher152003;327311" wrote:
Lol just went against a team with RG, GS, Bariss, Sid and IG-88, I lost Han after I killed RG but got him back with Daka then finished off the fight with protection on 3 of my guys. RG is a joke.

I run Asajj, Han, Talia, Daka, and Initiate.

Was that gear 9 or gear 8 RG? Gear 8 7* RG is not or should not be a concern for anyone.

Top 10 what do you think? My Initiate is GL9 and way more of a beast than RG is, I can dispell RG just about every time he taunts, because of Asajj. In that last fight I just tapped Han's Taunt and I was able to take out RG before he was unstunned. Do you really think that with Asajj, as lead and daka, Talia and Initiate getting 3 turns per round is gonna lose?

If you have enough speed it can still be the Meta.

Its about TM control and having good speed and good damage.


Han
speed 121

Han has a 25% chance to remove 30% TM from each enemy at the start of each of his turns. In addition Han has a 25% chance to remove 10% TM when ever he is damaged.

Han Taunts for 3 turns, and all other allies gain 30% TM, in addition all other allies gain 20% TM whenever han is damaged.

Asajj
speed 114

Nightsister allies gain 28 sped and have a 25% chance to remove 10% TM when they damage an enemy.

Dispell all positive effects from all enemies and Asajj recovers 40% of her max health. For each effect dispelled this way Asajj recovers an additional 6% max health and has a 50% chance to remove 10% TM

Talia
speed 138

Talia consumes 20% of her max health. Each Ally recovers 40% of their max health and gains 30% TM. Talia has a 40% chance to also Gain 25% TM. (next level gives a 15% bonus effect chance Requires new omega which I have plenty of)

Daka Is a stun machine.
speed 174

Initiate has 23k HP's with 17k protection and has almost a guaranteed crit with her special.
speed 140

If i put Acolyte in
Speed 167

Everyone but Daka and Han have LS, with Talia's giving 100% of damage done back, and Asajj has an Aoe that LS everyone and fills her up from a sliver.

Im gonna have to agree with the previous post. As someone who has played ventress lead since day one in arena i can tell you that falling from the 80's to 200+ overnight is not my favorite. Her ai is still bugged (healing unnecessarily) which makes her a target in arena. Whats up devs? Her dispel is crap 1/3 and they nerfed her aoe which btw wasnt stong enough to take out 50% toons before the update. I am encouraged by NI for sure but its very clear that everybody is way off target to say you can beat RG teams with dispellers...or speed:). Speed does help me see how lame my nightsisters damage more often:) m working on han now for some real protection.

"Nonemo;323193" wrote:
I'm still working on other team ideas to see if there's a way around the Dooku/Daka/RG combo, but for now it looks kinda bleak.

The two ways around I've found are a Rebel team with Han. As long as he gets his taunt off then their stuns don't matter much.

The other way is a Poggle and managing attacks to make sure that none of his characters get below 50%. With offense up you can reliably use IG-86 and IG-88 to one-shot-kill Dooku/Daka if they're ~65-51%. GS can also manage it on occasion if he has offense up and calls Poggle on an assist (GS gets a nice damage bump). You spread damage and prevent the trigger. I usually still focus Daka first then go after the Rey/Leia/GS DPS toons. If I can knock a single DPS toon out I then just have to focus on RG and finish Dooku last.

Poggle is key as lead over either HK or IG-88 (who I usually use). This is because the base attacks can bring provide more consistent damage so you can prevent accidently doing too much damage by critting when you're trying to set up a >50% kill shot.

Unfortunately I don't feel like that Poggle team is effective enough on defense but I may be wrong about it. Seems OK against Dooku teams. The speed Jedi were the hard counter to droids and I barely see anyone running them with so many Dookus populating the servers.