Mace Windu targeting error

@EA_GunnerCan we get some sort of reply after a week?

This is considered to be working as intended. Daze prevents assistance and targeting rules may work differently for specific units.

Here is a more clear explanation on what Ea_Gunner meant to say:

Characters that call allies to assist cannot target an ally with Daze to assist as they are unable to do so while they are Dazed. This rule is different when the move that calls the ally to assist first cleanses the daze (and any other applicable effects), in which all allies are able to be targeted as when the cleanse kicks in, they are able to assist.

For example Mace Windu's "This Party's Over" does not include a cleanse, therefore he is unable to find a target to assist if all allies are dazed, unfortunately automatically failing the "Swap turn meter with target ally" as there was never a target ally to begin with.

On the other hand, Jedi Knight Revan's Granted ability "Strategic Advantage" First dispels all debuffs on the target ally, allowing all allies to be potential targets even when dazed.

That's not an explanation: that's the bug for heavens sake.

JMK's first special does not have a cleanse on their own, it's interacting with the unique ability that gives it a cleansing.

Again, the targeting rule, whatever that might be acknowledges the interaction of two abilities: a special and a unique.

During Mace Windu's turn JMK's unique is still active. Despite that, the interaction does not occur and it creates inconsistency, aka bug.

It is hard to explain but unfortunately that is not a bug. Just like how Mace cannot swap turn meter without first selecting a target, JMK cannot cleanse himself without first being targeted. This is different from an ability like Strategic Advantage because Strategic Advantage provides the cleanse first, while in this situation the cleanse would technically come after the assist.

If you have played a game like Magic: The Gathering, its best to think of effects like that: Basically the entire effects of one ability will resolve, then any other effects that triggered because of it occur (All occurring before damage, I think). Because in the Strategic Advantage case, the Cleanse is in the same effect as the assist, Daze is not a factor in choosing a target. However because "This Party's Over" does not in itself cleanse, it can only look for allies that can currently be called to assist, even if that ally would cleanse themselves by the time the actual assist comes through like JMK, because it is not the act ability with the assist that cleanses, but the act of being targeted.

Why are you adressing points I did not make? Do you not realize how badly it weakens your argument?

What is the difference between using this party is over and using hello there/ I will do what I must?

Following your logic, JMK should never be able to cleanse anyone because that would require a targeting first.

Nobody is citing strategic advantage here, it is a granted ability, not a unique. Strategic advantage does have a cleanse in it, hello there does not have a cleanse in it, this party is over does not have a cleanse in it.

The unique ability "may the force be with you" has a cleanse in it, and it does interact with JMK, but does not interact with windu, even though the unique ability should be recognized during anyone's turn.

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@animatedmi87 wrote:

while in this situation the cleanse would technically come after the assist.

Factually wrong.

Let me try again

A. The reason why "This Party's Over" can only target units without Daze is because the only direct reason of the target is to call that ally to assist, as the extra bonuses are only if conditions are met.  "Hello There" can target any Galactic Republic ally, Daze or not, Because the reason is the target is not to call them to assist, so Dazed is not a factor for abilities like "Hello There". I do not own Jedi Master Kenobi, so I cannot understand what you mean with "I will do what I must". By all means, Dazed allies shouldn't be able to be targeted. However, he can target himself because if he targets himself, He isn't called to assist, as the effect gets replaced. (And if the effect did not get replaced, he wouldn't even have the opportunity to cleanse himself as the Unique states "another Light Side ally")

B. I bring up Strategic Advantage because it is relevant to the explanation. it helps explain why sometimes assist-calling abilities can target allies with daze.

C. I see I may not have been clear in my explanation in my last post. The move "This Party's Over" is not able to target allies with daze because the only thing that targeting an ally directly does is calling them to assist, with any other effects happening because of what the target is. This unfortunately means thing that rely on targets (Like the Turn Meter swap" cannot be fulfilled. Because JMK's Unique requires him to be targeted first, it creates the unfortunate situation where if Windu could target allies with Daze, JMK wouldn't have daze for the assist and subsequent TM Swap. However because he cannot target an ally with daze, He cannot fulfill the cleanse that comes with targeting JMK.

And the "while in this situation the cleanse would technically come after the assist." Was to help better understand order of operations when it comes to the interaction, that entirely depends on how effects are resolved and unfortunately I cannot guarantee how effects are resolved and I can only guess based on what would be easiest to code.

i am sorry but I really dislike the fact that someone would engage in a conversation like this without knowing the kits and abilities mentioned.

I will do what I must is the first special of JMK and it is an assist calling. It WORKS on dazed characters (you can select them and they will get cleansed) without it having a cleanse, the cleanse is coming from the unique.

This was supported by a youtube link in the original post which you apparently did not watch carefully enough, if at all.

Also, it is a very popular concept that the act of assistance is a requirement for gaining all the other effects included in the ability, but this gets contradicted by JML-s inherited teaching, and also works inconsistently with the hard stunned characters (slkr, padme for example) and works inconsistently with deadly bluff by boushh leia. More often than not beneficial effects can be realized without performing the actual assist.

Further proof to bust this theory is that you can use an assist+cleanse ability against darth revan. He will inhibit the assist, but the cleanse still will occur.

Strategic Advantage still works inconsistently with Inherited Teachings. Also, it completely misses the point that we are supposed to talk about an ability interaction between a special and a unique. SA is a standalone ability.