Forum Discussion

7 years ago

Cognitive Disabilities and Mental Health Disabilities in The Sims 4

Recently, the Gurus have come and told Simmers that they have been thinking about adding disabilities into The Sims 4. I think this is a great step forward in inclusion. There are wide range of kids - and adults - with disabilities who enjoy playing The Sims 4, including myself. Not all of us are interested in giving our Sims-selves disabilities, but I know a large number of us are.

I'd like to give my feedback about how I'd like cognitive disabilities and mental health disabilities to look in the game. My experience here: I am cognitively disabled myself (I am autistic), and I have multiple mental health disabilities. I am a disability justice activist and have worked with several disability rights organizations. I've lived with a range of people with disabilities, including cognitive disabilities, mental health disabilities, physical disabilities, and mental health disabilities. On my college university, I've worked in an Access and Inclusion group to make the campus more accessible, and I run a disability org for students. I have some thoughts about how physical and sensory disabilities would work as well, but it's really not my expertise, so I'll be focusing on cognitive and mental health disabilities.

If cognitive disabilities and mental health disabilities were implemented in the game, here's how I think they might best be handled:

The Sims 4 team should consult actual people with disabilities in implementing any new features or mechanics for people with disabilities, and should be careful to present disability in a fully respectful light. By 'consulting actual people', I mean actual people - not our parents, siblings, or organizations that represent us without us. While it would be fine to consult those groups as well, they should first and foremost listen to actual disabled people.

Cognitive Disabilities and Mental Health Disabilities should not be treated as game 'traits' - instead, they should be a separate category that can be checked 'on' or 'off'. Many people feel that their disabilities are not *just* 'traits' and widely impact their lives. Additionally, players who want to create disabled sims should not be punished by having a game trait slot removed. (Note: from now on, when I say "game trait", I am referring to the actual mechanic of traits that is currently in the game. If I say "disability trait", I mean an actual trait, symptom, or experience associated with a disability.)

Individual cognitive or mental health disabilities should not have discreet options for different disabilities. Players should be able to check a "neurodivergent" box (neurodivergent meaning a person with any kind of cognitive or mental health disability), and from there should be able to select certain disability traits that their Sim presents. There are far too many cognitive and mental health disabilities to include everyone, and many cognitive and mental health disabilities can look different from person to person, even if it's the same condition. Many traits also overlap from condition to condition. This gives people the freedom to build a Sim with a 'brain' that most closely matches what they'd like.

Sims maintain their cognitive or mental health disability traits throughout life, and this disability remains in the ghost life stage. Many people with disabilities identify strongly with their disability and would not cure it if they had the choice. It also sends a bad message that a 'good' afterlife would, by necessity, mean someone wasn't disabled. Disabled people can have good (after)lives and be happy not only in spite of their disability but because of it! Of course, players should be able to remove these disability traits through cheats or CAS.

Townies should be able to randomly generate with disabilities. This would be a *big deal* for all sorts of people with disabilities playing the game. We hardly ever see ourselves represented, and it might help people feel more self-confident making Sims that look like themselves.

So, those are my thoughts about the broader implementation of cognitive disabilities. A lot of this also applies to physical disabilities, of course. Next, I want to focus on how something like autism might be implemented within my current dream goal of how this system would work:

Like other cognitive disabilities, autism should not be a game trait that someone can choose to add to their character. Instead, you should be able to pick from a range of disability traits that sum up to make your sim have the disability you think is relevant to them

There should be more options than simple 'social awkwardness' for autistic-like disability traits, including...

Sensory Seeking disability traits and Sensory Avoiding disability traits. You should be able to chose if a sim avoids or seeks certain types of senses, or is neutral to them. (Example: Sim A seeks sound, but avoids taste). This is a heavily simplified version of how sensory sensitivity might work, but a more complex one would likely be very difficult and costly. A sim who seeks sound might get an extra happy moodlet from loud music, but one who avoids taste might get uncomfortable moodlets from certain, randomly generated food items. Alternatively, in reverse, a sim who avoids sound might get an uncomfortable moodlet from loud music nearby, fireworks, or other loud stimuli, and one who seeks taste might get an extra happy moodlet from eating certain foods. A sim who is touch averse might get uncomfortable or angry moodlets when hugged, and a sim that's touch seeking might have increashed wishes for hugs, or might like a weighted blanket. These disability traits should be usable for any sim.

'Stim' or 'Fidgeting' idle animations. Many autistic people, as well as other neurodivergent people, do something called 'stimming'. Most people are familiar with autistic children flapping their hands, this is stimming. However, other things, like clicking pens, rocking back and forth, twirling your hair, or walking on the tips of your toes might be stimming. I think an option to pick from a list of maybe 6 or so common stims would be great. Your sims would be able to do these animations while idle/not doing anything, or maybe when multitasking for something like watching TV or listening to music. Again, any Sim could do these stims/fidgets.

There shouldn't be a "socially awkward" game trait, but including some aspects of neurodivergent social interaction would be neat. I'd like to be able to make characters who dislike eye contact, or Sims with a strange sense of humor who's jokes might fall flat with other Sims, especially sims who don't also have the disability trait for humor. Maybe neurodivergent Sims have an easier time building up friendship with other neurodivergent Sims (I've found that this is often the case).

Rituals would be a great addition - lots of neurodivergent people like rituals, like doing things in a certain order. I think it would be fun to be able to make a ritualistic Sim (with a randomly generated, but plausible ritual, such as always having a morning routine in a certain order) that has a tense moodlet if it's not fulfilled, and a happy moodlet when it is. This would be relevant for all sorts of Sims, including autistic Sims, Sims with OCD, etc.

So what does everyone think? I've been thinking about how an autistic Sim would look like for a long time, but I only recently though of a broader system to allow for all sorts of cognitive and mental health disabilities. Do you have a cognitive or mental health disability? How would you like to see yourself in the game? Do you think that it *should* be game traits, or would you prefer a more flexible system like the one I mentioned? Would you prefer not to see it at all? And for simmers without disabilities, do you think you would make Sims with disabilities? Do you like my ideas?

Movotti
New Spectator
7 years ago
"MadameLee;c-16798563" wrote:
I'm not disagreeing with you but the reasons that Sims team is looking at including disabilities isn't for the entertainment aspect but for those people who are disabled who actually want to be able to make themselves "realistically"?

The sheer diversity and complexity of disabilities means they have no chance of making everyone's disability realistic.

Like let's say you're in a wheelchair and have been most of your life- and you play the sims-and you can create an almost perfect version of yourself but one's thing is lacking-a wheelchair how would you feel in that situation?
Quite good actually.
I love that my sims are not restricted physically as I am likely to become.
I dread the high possibility that I'm going to end up in a wheelchair. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Did you know that back in 2013 that a woman created a company that sold 100,000 Down Syndrome Doll's and had another 100,000 or so preorders for more dolls? The woman only made the company because her daughter when a child (9 as of 2013, the child was 13) couldn't find a doll that looked like her. It's not just parents of children with Down Syndrome who order this doll-the first buyer was a Mom of a "normal" child but the child had a friend who had Down Syndrome and the parent wanted a doll that looked like friend for her child's collection of dolls.
I prefer dolls without faces. They're more inclusive.

My own simself is almost perfect-but I have 1 problem with the glasses already in game-that when the sim-self goes to work the sims apparently wears contacts-(the glasses disappear) and my other problem is on at least 2 days most weeks-I wear a hearing aid on my left hear and at the moment we don't have hearing aids. (There's one CC type). I view both as part of me when I wear them-I only been wearing glasses since I was 17. I wore a hearing aid from Gr.1-3. Then I stopped until I had to start again in 2013-
The game doesn't include electric kettles.
Outside of the US they are a normal, everyday part of life for many parts of the world, but the realism of them is not included in the game. Perhaps they should include that aspect of GLOBAL reality before the minority of disabilities?

Including disabilities creates too much risk of doing it very wrong. It's safer for the franchise to not include them at this point.
TakThomas
Rising Newcomer
7 years ago
I really like your ideas OP.

I have an anxiety disorder and depression and I find that when people who haven't had it describe it, they don't really seem to understand what it is.

It would be really nice if the gurus could open up a thread - if they are seriously considering this - where we can talk about our disabilities and our experience with them. What it looks like and feels like. For example; a lot of people think about anxiety disorders as constant severe panic attacks and breakdowns. But I guess in a sim what it would look like is more frequent tense emotional states from being generally overwhelmed, avoiding going outside because it's just too much, fitful sleeping and nightmares, having a ritual when I'm alone where I check all the windows of the house so I feel safe, making very few friends, and avoiding social situations.

Also when I do have an anxiety attack it doesn't look like a hysterical fit, it's more I sit with my knees to my chest, have laboured breathing, will want to visit a hospital, and I will shake a lot. Like a chihuahua.

It would be really nice if they include cognitive issues if, as you said, they include some sort of UI where we could pick what kind of disability the sim has and the specific traits of the disability. Perhaps in anxietys case there would be a severity slider (for how often the symptoms come up. So that way you can have a mild or severe case) and check boxes for anxious behaviours/symptoms.

It would also be good if our sims could receive support or assistance for their disability symptoms like we do in real life. I wouldn't want receiving support to make the symptoms go away but I'd like to show a sim learning to cope with whatever their disability is. I have a nephew with autism who has his own teachers assistant at school and goes to special sessions where he learns coping methods.

From what I've seen it's really helped him with food aversion and calming himself down when he gets overwhelmed.

So I think it'd be good if that was included.
Madamelee
New Rookie
7 years ago
"Tentacrocacles;c-16798596" wrote:
I really like your ideas OP.

I have an anxiety disorder and depression and I find that when people who haven't had it describe it, they don't really seem to understand what it is.

It would be really nice if the gurus could open up a thread - if they are seriously considering this - where we can talk about our disabilities and our experience with them. What it looks like and feels like. For example; a lot of people think about anxiety disorders as constant severe panic attacks and breakdowns. But I guess in a sim what it would look like is more frequent tense emotional states from being generally overwhelmed, avoiding going outside because it's just too much, fitful sleeping and nightmares, having a ritual when I'm alone where I check all the windows of the house so I feel safe, making very few friends, and avoiding social situations.

Also when I do have an anxiety attack it doesn't look like a hysterical fit, it's more I sit with my knees to my chest, have laboured breathing, will want to visit a hospital, and I will shake a lot. Like a chihuahua.

It would be really nice if they include cognitive issues if, as you said, they include some sort of UI where we could pick what kind of disability the sim has and the specific traits of the disability. Perhaps in anxietys case there would be a severity slider (for how often the symptoms come up. So that way you can have a mild or severe case) and check boxes for anxious behaviours/symptoms.

It would also be good if our sims could receive support or assistance for their disability symptoms like we do in real life. I wouldn't want receiving support to make the symptoms go away but I'd like to show a sim learning to cope with whatever their disability is. I have a nephew with autism who has his own teachers assistant at school and goes to special sessions where he learns coping methods.

From what I've seen it's really helped him with food aversion and calming himself down when he gets overwhelmed.

So I think it'd be good if that was included.

@Tentacrocacles the main problem with having a thread on here is that it will dissolve into arguments because how do they deal with people w/ disabilities who like @Movotti don't want it to be "forced on them" since those folks play the game to escape? Despite the fact anyone at anytime or any age or race can become disabled? Like on a thread someone made in early Sept but it had to close on Sept 21st because people couldn't stay civilised- like I kept stating that I'm disabled and one person claimed that because I wasn't in a wheelchair didn't mean i was disabled.. despite myself having said I had hearing and vision problems..
EA_Cian
7 years ago
Hi folks,

Let's please be respectful of the fact that yes, disabilities come in many different forms. Let's also be mindful that folks do have different perspectives on this as a possible feature for different reasons. If this isn't something you want in the game, you can say that, but consider that this is a thread for a possible implementation of certain disabilities. Let's try to stay focused on the OP's implementation and now if disabilities in general are a good idea, and how other threads about this subject have gone in the past. If we continue down that road the thread will have to be locked.
puderosasims
7 years ago
I have several mental illnesses and am usually happy when I don't get reminded of them, but would totally support the idea if they get handled like you suggested. :smile: However, there should be an option to turn disabilities off, because it seems like a lot of simmers don't want them in their game.
silverdreams11
6 years ago
Hmmm. This is obviously a controversial topic. I myself have a variety of mental and physical disabilities, and I confess it's rather nice that I don't have to worry about added complications in-game from my Sims having disabilities. I have a hard enough time keeping them alive as it is, LOL. I can no longer work or do many of the things I used to love, and even the most basic activities like eating and showering have become fraught with complications. I don't really WANT to subject my Sims to that. Don't get me wrong, I still have things to live for (The Sims being one of them :smile: ), but if there was a cure for my worst disabilities, I would take it in a heartbeat.

On the other hand... It would be nice to see some more real world mental and physical diversity in The Sims. (Not just to add entertainment value to the game, but to start real-world conversations about ableism, disability rights, advocacy, accessibility, etc.) We have a decent variety of mental "traits" and physical skin tones and body types (etc.) in-game now, but we don't have something as seemingly basic as a height slider, for example. I like the OP's ideas for implementing neurodivergence, though I fear that something similar for physical differences would be much more challenging to implement. The aforementioned height slider, for example. I suspect there is a very good reason we have never had one, so can we even dare to hope for Sims using canes, crutches, and wheelchairs?
ForeverRogue61
6 years ago
NOTE: This is a copy of a post that made to another thread, and I was told I put it in the wrong place. So I will post it here.

As a gamer with a disability, I am very appreciative of the number of worlds gaming has opened up to me. Video games have allowed me to play as a small, green, frog-like blob crossing a street, a magic-wielding knight who rescues princess Zelda, an underground street racer, a professional hockey player, an Italian Renaissance warrior who works with Leonardo Da Vinci to fight a global conspiracy, and a leader of numerous armies of knights, mages, and thieves in various fantasy worlds. So, when the Sims first came out, you can imagine how I felt about finally being able to roleplay as me ... almost.

I have read on other forums about how the developers consulted with LGBT advocates to mirror the state of gay/lesbian affairs in America and the creation of the gender customization options in Sims 4. I don't see why they cannot do the same with some disability advocates to redesign Sim homes and neighborhoods in future games (though I do agree that it is probably too late to include this in Sims 4). Additionally, one of the areas where I have struggled with my disability is finding meaningful employment. With regard to the point about finding employment being a life goal, I for one think it would send a positive message to see disabled Sims as office workers, writers, programmers, business owners, or politicians.

I also feel that any disabilities included would need to be included on some kind of sliding scale. Some people have perfect vision, some are totally blind, and I am somewhere in the middle. I for one am tired of seeing glasses trated as some type of Mr. PotatoHead-style fashion accessory; I can assure you that my mother's driving glasses and my grandmother's glasses are not just fashion accessories but physical necessity. Glasses would not work on me, and yet I still have some sight. Often I feel with disability in games it is either all or nothing; The Sims would need to develop a way to account for the many shades of gray.

I understand that not everyone feels the same way I do. Many play games to escape from reality; this to me was the appeal of fantasy games. But as far as The Sims is concerned, I always felt that promoting individuality and creating a truly diverse world of people was what this game was about. Some players will want to include disability, others will not, but those who want it should be allowed to have the option. At the very least, I think they could put some ramps at the street corners and create some disabled Sims as NPCs to at least get people used to the idea.
manakochi
6 years ago
I am normally on board for something new for the sims but this time it is a little difficult which comes from me having a very bad time with depression at the moment BUT saying that I am not against this idea for a pack. I had heard that EA was thinking of a disability pack but as I don't use twitter I don't know if there have been updates since they said about the idea so please correct me if I am wrong somewhere.

The question I have at the moment is how far is EA going to take this? Is this going to be only a wheelchair, crutches, cane and guide dog sort of pack or are they going to go deeper as we are all aware there are many different kinds/types of disability? I can only hope that EA will be respectful and not make things look like a joke. I am sure they won't but things happen.
For me, I would like an option to turn certain things off for a time and when I feel alright, I can turn it back on. Now I say that if this is something that happens by itself as the weather in the game does but if it is a trait then I can just not use it if I wish.

I think this pack (if it happens) is one I will wait and see where it goes. This pack idea is a bit iffy only because many people have their own ideas on what disability means (and whether or not it's real, yes there is that type of people out there, sadly). If this pack happens I can only hope that EA shows respect and doesn't do this pack half-assed because this is a subject that can be touchy for some people and it really can't be done half-assed.
Madamelee
New Rookie
6 years ago
I apologise for spamming this thread but I want to answer both @Masters_In_Simology and @ManakoHime 's questions and they both ask big (?) things so it will take two posts

@Masters_In_Simology
"Masters_In_Simology;c-16878382" wrote:

I have read on other forums about how the developers consulted with LGBT advocates to mirror the state of gay/lesbian affairs in America and the creation of the gender customization options in Sims 4. I don't see why they cannot do the same with some disability advocates to redesign Sim homes and neighborhoods in future games (though I do agree that it is probably too late to include this in Sims 4). Additionally, one of the areas where I have struggled with my disability is finding meaningful employment. With regard to the point about finding employment being a life goal, I for one think it would send a positive message to see disabled Sims as office workers, writers, programmers, business owners, or politicians.

From the tweets I saw during the summer (around the time Seasons came out) I saw they ARE consulting disabled simmers. Around May they tweeted that they had a design problem something to do with a wheelchair and talking to simmers who uses wheelchair and they figured out and (fix) the problem.

Spoiler
I also feel that any disabilities included would need to be included on some kind of sliding scale. Some people have perfect vision, some are totally blind, and I am somewhere in the middle. I for one am tired of seeing glasses treated as some type of Mr. PotatoHead-style fashion accessory; I can assure you that my mother's driving glasses and my grandmother's glasses are not just fashion accessories but physical necessity. Glasses would not work on me, and yet I still have some sight. Often I feel with disability in games it is either all or nothing; The Sims would need to develop a way to account for the many shades of gray.

I agree with you on that-I hate the "Mr. Potatato Head" style fashion accessory myself since I use glasses on my sim-self and hate that she "magically" wears contacts when she goes to work.

Spoiler
I understand that not everyone feels the same way I do. Many play games to escape from reality; this to me was the appeal of fantasy games. But as far as The Sims is concerned, I always felt that promoting individuality and creating a truly diverse world of people was what this game was about. Some players will want to include disability, others will not, but those who want it should be allowed to have the option. At the very least, I think they could put some ramps at the street corners and create some disabled Sims as NPCs to at least get people used to the idea.

I agree with you about About promtoting indivuiduality and creating a truly diverse world was what the game was about. the people who don't want disabiled sims in their games wouldn't want Disabled NPCs because it might "Remind" them of their own sad life (not my quote).
Madamelee
New Rookie
6 years ago
@ManakoHime

"ManakoHime;c-16878464" wrote:
I am normally on board for something new for the sims but this time it is a little difficult which comes from me having a very bad time with depression at the moment BUT saying that I am not against this idea for a pack. I had heard that EA was thinking of a disability pack but as I don't use twitter I don't know if there have been updates since they said about the idea so please correct me if I am wrong somewhere.

There has been updates but noting since I think Sept(?).

The question I have at the moment is how far is EA going to take this? Is this going to be only a wheelchair, crutches, cane and guide dog sort of pack or are they going to go deeper as we are all aware there are many different kinds/types of disability? I can only hope that EA will be respectful and not make things look like a joke. I am sure they won't but things happen.
For me, I would like an option to turn certain things off for a time and when I feel alright, I can turn it back on. Now I say that if this is something that happens by itself as the weather in the game does but if it is a trait then I can just not use it if I wish.

It's not going to be a trait-that would be the lazy way out-apperently they're working as hard on this idea as they're on the "Queer" patch. Talking to disabled simmers about various stuff.

There's was supposedly an article someplace saying that the sims could get a "Mysterious illness" which they could die from. They didn't call it the c-word but basically if it's an illness you can die from its can't be anything but (C) word now can it? I think there was some talk about mental illness. (something among the lines is that disabilties mental or not) wouldn't be the trait-which is what they're trying to figure out. But they do realize they have to be sensitve for all the disabilties espically the mental health ones since there's still stigma there and they like most people are trying to break it down.

I think this pack (if it happens) is one I will wait and see where it goes. This pack idea is a bit iffy only because many people have their own ideas on what disability means (and whether or not it's real, yes there is that type of people out there, sadly). If this pack happens I can only hope that EA shows respect and doesn't do this pack plum because this is a subject that can be touchy for some people and it really can't be done plum.

They been working on the idea since sometime before May. But they say they wouldn't charge for the pack it would be free. Hopefully for the people who don't want it-there's a turn off option. They were a bit "fuzzy" when someone asked about if a sim could be born with a disability. They didn't actually answer the question.

@Masters_In_Simology @ManakoHime I know for wheelchairs they're going to open it up that children+ older can use it so it wouldn't be limited to just elders.