Carl's Guide: A History of the Sims 4

"CAPTAIN_NXR7;c-17838801" wrote:
@SimmerGeorge , @Mstybl95 ,

Thanks for the history lesson. I believe you. I never said that the modding community wasn’t huge already. I’m sure it was. I just think it’s bigger, but hey, perhaps that’s just an illusion. And yes perhaps it’s this big because some folks see it as an easy way to make a quick buck but I also believe that EA could see it as a way to generate more money. That’s all I’m saying. I could be totally wrong. Right now I hope I am. But who knows.

"Mstybl95;c-17838717" wrote:

And I can deny that TS2 looks aged. As someone who still plays it regularly, I can tell you that my game looks great. I actually have 90% of the same CC in TS2 that I have in TS4. And it works better in TS2 because doing something out of passion is a lot different from people just trying to make an easy buck.

I didn’t say TS2 looks aged or doesn’t look great. I said TS4 looks that bit smoother in comparison. And in my opinion it looks better. Again, whichever look we prefer is subjective.
I’m not a modder or a cc creator. I’m an end user and there’s only a handful of modders and cc creators who’s content is worthy enough to end up in any of my games. I can see the difference between content that has been created with skill and passion and content that has been rushed by someone with absolutely 0 eye for detail. That has nothing to do with for whatever game that content was created.

@CAPTAIN_NXR7 I mean doesn't matter if you like the Sims 4 art style or not, it is still graphically superior compared to the previous games cause technological leap. So yeah I agree it looks a lot smoother, and in general better than the 15 or 20 year old Sims games. It's not up for debate to say it has better graphics, it is pretty much a fact. But yeah the art style does bother some people, not me personally. However the art style is more of a subjective thing.

I see myself as one of the castaways and agree with what Carl says. In addition, TS4 lacks the depth and attention to detail of TS2. I know they are different games, and there are things in 4 that 2 doesn't have (it should in view of the ~10 years of growth in technology between them), but 4 still feels shallow, empty, and boring - bowl of broth compared to a steak. That and the bugs, endless bugs and glitches. It's a game made for the shareholders, profits, and casual players that don't really care. Yes, there are caring forum types that love it, but I suspect even they have lists of things they want to see added or wish had been done differently.

Okay, so from this video, Carl's argument against TS4 is built upon 3 main critiques on - 1. quality of work, 2, depth of features, 3, lack of challenges. I think 1 and 2 go hand in hand with one another. A lower quality of work results in lack of in-depth features, but he also is referring to the abundance of glitches and bugs, and overall programming that makes the game frustrating/unplayable for some. He touched on A LOT in this video, (I've watched it three times to pick up on most of it) and overall, I agree with him.

I think ultimately if EA's vision of what the game is meant to be doesn't align with what you as a player want the game to be, you'll never see it as a great game or a game that feels like it's improving because no matter what EA does with the game, it will not satisfy your expectations. I think TS4 is a very tricky game to talk about in this regard because on one hand, it should be judged on its own merits and presentation as a life sim game, and on the other hand, it has a line of predecessors which will always cast a shadow of expectations over it simply for the fact that the existence of previous games means that comparisons can be drawn between the different versions. And because it's really the only major life sim game currently on the market (with a large audience of players wanting a life sim game, in general), expectations for it can be high from that perspective, as well.

I say that because some of Carl's arguments, and arguments that I've seen here on the forums about what the game should include draws from both expectations of a generic life sim game, and the history of the Sims series. For example, in a generic life sim game (which builds its setting from a modern, Western inspiration), it's not unreasonable to expect usable cars to be in the game. A life simulator is meant to, in some capacity, emulate real life and in real life, cars are usable. And as another example, specifically for a Sims game, it's not unreasonable to expect swimming pools or toddlers in the base game because we have evidence that these things were provided in base games of the past. Our understanding of both life sim games and Sims games shapes our expectations of both, which in turn have an effect on whether or not we think the game is where it should be or if improvements are required.

The Sims 4 turns 7 this fall. Some players feel like Sims are lacking in-depth personalities (myself included). If after 7 years the Sims are still in this hollow state, I just have to conclude that this is how the devs see the Sims of this generation to be. This is their vision. The expectations that I had for the Sims themselves is not equal to what the devs have and delivered in the game.
And, if at some point Sims are updated with some robust personality system, it cannot be ignored that it took so long for it to happen, which is, in my opinion, a misstep in production. Either way, for a player who has the expectation for in-depth personalities, this does not look good either for the current state of the game, or its overall development.

The longer this series goes on for, the worse this...conundrum becomes. And I think personalities can stand in as an example for many other things that players feel are missing from the game. For example, players who want improved babies have to accept/recognize that the current babies are the vision the devs have for them in this iteration, or they will have to reconcile with the fact that if babies are improved somewhere down the line, it took over half a decade for that to happen. It's either a production flaw or a development flaw; either way, for someone who wants improved babies....there's something wrong here because their expectations are not being met.

And, while many Simmers are seemingly fine with this concept of prolonging what feels like necessary inclusions or improvements, others just are not. And yes, the business model for this series has always been to build upon the base game with DLC during its lifespan, but to be the 4th generation of a series, it feels like it's taking more time to get to an endpoint for TS4, or to feel like it's still playing catch up to its predecessors, or to implement truly game changing dynamics which makes it more frustrating. That makes me feel like it's the result of a....flawed guidance/development/inspiration/etc etc. It just is kind of a flop for me as a life sim, or as a Sims game. And I'm not trying to be overly negative when I say this, but rather just matter of fact. It is what it is, this is the reality -- this game doesn't meet my expectations. And I think objectively, that's fine. I can't be blown away by every game. But I can, and I think a lot of the more critical Simmers (who are, unfortunately, often times perceived as being negative and whiny) can also point out things that can be improved based on their expectations for a life sim and a Sims game. For some reason, people get really upset when people state their expectations and how the game fails to meet them.

So anyways, I've said all of this and I think I could go on and perhaps my train of thought is not very clear, but ultimately I think that the people that Carl made that video for, what he calls Castaways, and perhaps I'm one of them,...I think we just have different expectations from a lot of people. It's a reality that we have to face -- that this is just not the game that will make us happy. But, I think due to lack of other viable game alternatives, as well as an attachment to this series overall, we tend to stick around and come across as fussy because we just want a game that does meet our expectations and provides us with the sense of entertainment that other games or tv shows or music or whatever gives us when we indulge in them.

For someone with different expectations from mine, they don't see Carl's critiques as valid. To someone else, the level of depth in the gameplay is enough for them. The lack of challenges, or the current difficulty is enough for them. The devs created a game that makes them content, brings them joy, provides them with endless entertainment. For some of us, I think we just have to wait for something to come along and tick all of those boxes that we want ticked.

Key word from the title is SOME.

Some fans, and who and what determines how big a fan is? I've been here since the beginning of the game. Am I not "one of the biggest fans" just because I don't have a massive following on the internet? A lot of assumptions being made here, just in the title and that's disappointing from someone who is usually as diplomatic and fair as Carl. Good for him, getting those views, but honestly? If you people really feel so strongly about "saving" this game, then you need to sacrifice the dollars in your pocket. Otherwise, you're just preaching to your choirs for Likes, upvotes and other ways to capitalize on the internet's very easy rage - which is probably what most people are really concerned with, given the state of the internet today.

I enjoy Sims 4, and I didn't like Sims 3. Sorry. I don't miss it, and I loved Sims 2 but I'll never go back. I hated story progression, hated not being able to move freely from one neighborhood to the next, hated the massive bugs and the reputation and attraction systems - I much prefer the mild suggestions of Sims 4, which allow you to override the game if you want. I appreciate that others have a different playstyle, but if this wasn't catering to yours, then by say, pack 4, you and your money should've walked out the door. You could've all banded together and started a hashtag on Twitter, telling EA/Maxis and The Sims team that you were walking with your wallet until your demands were met. Instead, many of you continue to not only buy (yes, even on sale your money goes directly to the company) but also "play" in different ways (challenges, building houses or creating lookbooks on Tumblr). Guess what all of those actions say to EA? It says, "I like to scream on the internet but I'll still buy this product that I'm screaming about!"

And we all know that EA is a money-hungry monster so...add it all up.

And the only reason they "listened" to black players was because everyone collectively decided to throw black people a few scraps after the George Floyd protests in lieu of, you know, actually trying to address the deeper issues of systemic racism by trying to introduce real systemic changes. Much easier to add new skin tones and remove Aunt Jemima. EA wasn't exempt from that BS move. That's it.

Y'all will hear this said a million times and still not understand that the only language any money-hungry monster speaks is MONEY. Honestly, it's like a jilted lover who won't accept the fact that they've been jilted at this point. They don't love you, simmers. They love your money. Stop sitting and moping by the window and do the things that make sense. Unless you just like being upset on the internet. Then by all means, continue.

Edit: Also, after watching most of the video, it is very much a lot of old community complaints that really aren't worth listening to (it took too long to get stuff, look at all the money we've spent for this game that I'm playing by making content for not playing, the community asked for this but this isn't what we asked for but it's totally what you asked for because ECO does not mean FARM) and weak arguments mixed with some more constructive ones that, again, if you're not happy by now - best just to keep playing previous iterations, wait for Paralives or Sims 5 or let it go. More disappointing than the game, tbh.

Thank you for posting the video! It really says a lot about our current mess, why, and does it well. The very fact that there are many worlds available (provided one has paid the money to get them) is itself a witness against EA for the shallowness of their work. For example, Willow Creek has for community lots a museum, nightclub, gym, library and park. That's it. If I want to send my sims to a restaurant I either have to go to a another world or sacrifice one of the few existing lots to make one. There is no such problem in TS2. Every world, with its satellites, is self-contained. If by some odd fluke what I want isn't available there is plenty of open land where I can plop a lot down and build without sacrificing what is already there. Each of those worlds is unique, has its own personality, vibe, and residents; is not simply like all the others only with a different coat of paint on the surface.

I agree 100% with the video, it honestly makes me sad to see where The Sims franchise is going. Carl's Sim Guides shares in the video their constructive criticism of why The Sims 4 is what it is today and also shows what this game really is and what has been through since the beginning. I highly recommend it to everyone, even to people saying "if you don't like it, just don't buy it".

"Goldmoldar;c-17838836" wrote:

I never had to mod Sims 2 to enjoy the game ( I also do not use mods).

Wow.. haha, I have over 5000 MOD files in my Downloads folder , plus the ridiculous amount of CC. And have never ever met a person before who never had a tiny need of mod the game AT ALL (TS2, what I still do play).

"SimmerGeorge;c-17838874" wrote:


CAPTAIN_NXR7 I mean doesn't matter if you like the Sims 4 art style or not, it is still graphically superior compared to the previous games cause technological leap. So yeah I agree it looks a lot smoother, and in general better than the 15 or 20 year old Sims games. It's not up for debate to say it has better graphics, it is pretty much a fact. But yeah the art style does bother some people, not me personally. However the art style is more of a subjective thing.

That is what worries me the most about the Sims 4. If graphics is the only thing the game has going for it, how many people will jump ship when the Sims 5 comes out because of it also being graphically superior? I think most of the community will if it remains single player.

I've actually really enjoyed having these much needed discussions with this thread too. Think it has been things that have needed to be said for over seven years and how to request tools to benefit everyone.

"Scobre;c-17839052" wrote:

"SimmerGeorge;c-17838874" wrote:


CAPTAIN_NXR7 I mean doesn't matter if you like the Sims 4 art style or not, it is still graphically superior compared to the previous games cause technological leap. So yeah I agree it looks a lot smoother, and in general better than the 15 or 20 year old Sims games. It's not up for debate to say it has better graphics, it is pretty much a fact. But yeah the art style does bother some people, not me personally. However the art style is more of a subjective thing.

That is what worries me the most about the Sims 4. If graphics is the only thing the game has going for it, how many people will jump ship when the Sims 5 comes out because of it also being graphically superior? I think most of the community will if it remains single player.

I've actually really enjoyed having these much needed discussions with this thread too. Think it has been things that have needed to be said for over seven years and how to request tools to benefit everyone.

But these things have been said over and over for the last seven years. You just now have different people starting to join in and voice their hopes for changes in the game.

"simgirl1010;c-17839061" wrote:

"Scobre;c-17839052" wrote:

"SimmerGeorge;c-17838874" wrote:


CAPTAIN_NXR7 I mean doesn't matter if you like the Sims 4 art style or not, it is still graphically superior compared to the previous games cause technological leap. So yeah I agree it looks a lot smoother, and in general better than the 15 or 20 year old Sims games. It's not up for debate to say it has better graphics, it is pretty much a fact. But yeah the art style does bother some people, not me personally. However the art style is more of a subjective thing.

That is what worries me the most about the Sims 4. If graphics is the only thing the game has going for it, how many people will jump ship when the Sims 5 comes out because of it also being graphically superior? I think most of the community will if it remains single player.

I've actually really enjoyed having these much needed discussions with this thread too. Think it has been things that have needed to be said for over seven years and how to request tools to benefit everyone.

But these things have been said over and over for the last seven years. You just now have different people starting to join in and voice their hopes for changes in the game.

Every voice helps. :) We didn't get toddlers in the game alone either. It took people coming together to make it happen.