Forum Discussion

8 years ago

Features that needs depth and ways to improve

As much I like this game, there are still rooms for improvement, especially with the features that they had in the base game. If the features in the base game doesn't have depth, it will be ignored or even turn into a good feature no matter how pack they add. This list will consist of in what part of the game lack depth, and ways for the developers to improve it. It will include from Base Game to all Packs, but what I put down now is just what I remember. If you have an idea/thoughts don't hesitate to post. :)

Base Game
1. Aspirations - This feature is the most important part of a sim journey throughout their lives, and seeing this so repetitive makes this feature boring. It is sad seeing that the most important want of a sim is so boring and repetitive.
Ways to improve
Remove the linear goals and Integrate/Connect this feature with the whims and possibly the traits system.
Ex. If my sim is a foodie and have the master chef aspiration, he should get whims that he wanted to get a career, create a dinner party,
Cook their boyfriend/girlfriend favorite food. Master cooking skill, learn gourment cooking, Teach other sims to cook.
Then if you have dine out, Whims should include take date to restaurant, propose at the restaurant, run a 5 star restaurant.
By fulfilling this whims, the more a sim will accomplish his aspirations and more variety we will have.
2. Traits - One of the biggest problems of The Sims 4. Most traits don't work because of the emotion system, but even with the proper emotion/situation, the traits still don't do much. I am talking about the base game traits. The only trait that is done well is the Jealous trait and the unflirty trait. The rest is well... kinda... just there. Back in 2015 they are improving the reactions of sims based on their traits. The First part was the Jealousy update and the second part was the Pre-Get Together patch where sims will react on fire based on their traits(like a gloomy sim will cry during a fire) and an improved death reaction based on a sim relationship. Now the problem is that patch was the last patch that create big changes on how sim act based on their traits. I thought they will continue it, but it was left in the dust.
Ways to improve
Have the traits be the reason of a sim emotional state.
Improve integration with the emotion system.
Ex. If a sim is an Hot-Headed Loner, the sim should be angry instead of being tense. If a sim is a Gloomy Loner, the sim should be sad.
If the sim is an Hot- Headed Neat Freak, the sim should be angry with all the mess, not uncomfortable.
If the sim is Evil, he should have the ability to lough at people who are in a negative emotion.
If the sim is Good, the sim should have more interest in helping others, have more unique interaction that can help others, instead of
just having the ability to donate without the charisma skill.
If the sim is an Self Assured Music Lover, he shouldn't be embarrassed while playing instruments at low level, but still confident.
Have them to include animations/reactions that are unique to them, or can be easily identified by the player when we interact with other sims.
Ex. of needs to be tuned
What is the difference of Outgoing and a Good Sim?
Why does clumsy sims only fails at the treadmill? If they fail, they should change the gameplay, such as easily chance of fire and
electrocution, food plates are more to drop when working at the restaurant, etc.
Why does the Loves Outdoor trait only make sims happy outdoors?
3. Emotions System - One of the features that needs a big revamp. The emotions system is one of the reasons why traits don't work on its full potential, It is an idea that is very great but still needs improvement. The Problem is there are more positive/happy moodlets than the negative ones, or most of the negative ones doesn't relate to the traits.
Ways to improve
Increase the emotion buff of emotional traits by +2.
Ex. The feeling angry buff should be +2 instead of +1.
Remove the environmental moodlets or base them on traits.
Ex. If an Hot-Headed sim gets an environmental buff that sim should be angry or.......Remove the environmental buffs all together, as
it was unnecessary and interfere gameplay.
Moodlets emotions should depend on traits, not on the base one.
Ex. An evil sim should be happy when someone dies, unless it was his/her friend.
When a genius sim discovered something, that sim should become focused, or when that sim finished reading a book, that sim should
not be just happy but also focused.
In My opinion to balance the emotion system, once a sim is in an specific moodlet, it will decreaase the values of positive moodlet. Not all
negative moodlets should do this but only on some events.
Ex. If a sim had lost his spouse because of death after the wedding, all positive moodlets should decease its value. Why? after the wedding,
probably the sim is in a very emotional state, so if that sim got 2 sad moodlets, no matter how tragic happen, that sim will stay happy
since he/she only have +6/+4 sad moodlets and +8 to +10 happy moodlets.
4. Memories System - The System that needs a revamp. The memories and events of a sim should be remembered by the sim itself and have it affect his.her future life. If a sim is gloomy, and most of his memory are sim death, rejections, and fights, that sim should preferred to be alone, nut unlike a loner sim, other sims can comfort them even if it is stranger, and the sad sim should have the ability to tell what happen in his past life.
5. Whims - The most important thing in a sim is what he/she want the player to do for them to be happy. If this whims are repetitive then it is boring.
Ways to improve
Make the whims integrate on aspiration and trait system even more.
Whims should also depend on their life status.
Whims should also have relation to the future.
Ex. They should have a whims to have their child grew up well, especially with parenthood.
They should have long term goals not just short term.
6. Ghost - I am very serious about this. They are not scary anymore. They felt sims with different colors.
Ways to improve
Sims should not see them by default, instead it is up to the player or on their actions if they will become visible to sims.
Sims shouldn't have just talk to a ghost so easily. They should be scared at the beginning, like panicking because they saw one.
Ghost should have the ability to pass through walls.
Ghost should have more unique abilities, powers depending on their death type.
Ghost should also have mean interaction that can scare sims.
7. Life Stages - Everything in except the toddler life stage needs a revamp, especially teens, babies, and elders.

The Emotions - Traits - Aspirations - Whims - Memories - Traits - Likes and Dislikes(if we get them) - Career - Life Status should work together to create more unique sims. If they work together, with each had depth into it, then sims 4 sims will be a step up to previous games.

Get To Work
1. Shopping Experience - While all careers have depth and effort into it, even managing a business, being a customer is a nightmare and uninspiring. You should feel like a customer and their should be an animation of paying to the employee or even to get objects, not just magical hands.
Ways to Improve
Have an employee interact with your sim.
Ex. If its your first time to go shopping an employee should talk to your sim and give the player tips on what we can do.
Employees should show off the items for sale to the player.
More interactive display.
ex. Have an clothing booth for our sims to try on clothes. A clothing rack with hangers and lot of clothes for boutique shop.
Get Together
City Living
1. Apartments - One of the features that lacked depth. It is not just in building, but also in gameplay. I can understand that they didn't let us build apartments from scratch because its their decision and not the focus of the pack, but when the gameplay lacked depth, it is a different story.
Ways to Improve
Make the Landlord to act more as an owner, rather than a free repair service.
ex. Have the owner roam around the apartment. Chatting with your neighbors, and sometimes visit you.
Have them do activities that only they can do. Such as maybe have them throw a party, an apartment party where all the sims living in
that building are invited.
When the power is being shut off, the landlord shouldn't just appear in the Notifications, but have them appear as a sim, where they will
go your sims apartment room and shout/yell/complain at them because they are not paying the bills.
Have the Elevator be Functional.
2. Festivals - a feature that suppose to be fun for a long term but gets boring after 2-3 repeats.
Ways to Improve
Progression
ex. When a sim was in GeekCon, they should have new types of video games that are on offer and only present at an specific day.
When a sim was on any festivals, the layout must be different, and there should be different prize that will only be available let say on
First Time a festivals occur, but on the next time that same festivals happen, it should be different again.
Flea Market should sell different things not the same objects that are just recolored.
The Prize that a player/Sim that may get should not just be money, but also an actual gameplay object that can be used by the player. The
Prizes should have a variety and not the same each time the same festival happen.

SimmerNickYT
8 years ago
This is such a great post! And I agree with all of these. I'm so angry by how the new features and higlights of the game, that have been replaced by many beloved features from previous iterations, are not very nicely executed.
drake_mccarty
8 years ago
Focusing on the 'apartment gameplay' was probably the worst decision they made for CL. After years of players asking for proper apartments they came out with something that doesn't really deliver for anyone.

Bottom line apartments should not be locked away from the player. We should be able to build them freely in any world without the insane restrictions. Most of the apartment gameplay isn't exclusive to apartments either which IMO makes the whole setup feel totally forced and unusable. This is The Sims 4 there is no excuse for failure to deliver on themes that have been done before and have been done much better.
krunji
8 years ago
"drake_mccarty;c-16030398" wrote:
Focusing on the 'apartment gameplay' was probably the worst decision they made for CL. After years of players asking for proper apartments they came out with something that doesn't really deliver for anyone.

Bottom line apartments should not be locked away from the player. We should be able to build them freely in any world without the insane restrictions. Most of the apartment gameplay isn't exclusive to apartments either which IMO makes the whole setup feel totally forced and unusable. This is The Sims 4 there is no excuse for failure to deliver on themes that have been done before and have been done much better.

What do you mean by "years of asking for proper apartments" ? Does that include the TS2 era as well or just from TS3 onwards?

As for features that need depth and improvement, TS4 is in desperate need of some attraction system similar to the one from TS2. I suppose some people would call the way our sims in 4 can romance others the true sandbox way, but spamming romantic interactions until you get to the point you like is just adding to the overall dullness of the gameplay IMO. It should be more challenging. It gives sims some actual personality when they don't just want to date anybody. In 2, even if sims weren't attracted to each other you could still make them end up together, only with a little bit more work and it was way more realistic than what we have now. It was fun sending a sim to a public lot and seeing that they immediately felt drawn to some people. As of now romance in TS4 is boring and empty, it's just a spam of interactions that inevitably ends in flirty mood, and once you achieve that it's ridiculously quick and easy to fill the romance bar entirely.
drake_mccarty
8 years ago
"agustd;c-16031066" wrote:
"drake_mccarty;c-16030398" wrote:
Focusing on the 'apartment gameplay' was probably the worst decision they made for CL. After years of players asking for proper apartments they came out with something that doesn't really deliver for anyone.

Bottom line apartments should not be locked away from the player. We should be able to build them freely in any world without the insane restrictions. Most of the apartment gameplay isn't exclusive to apartments either which IMO makes the whole setup feel totally forced and unusable. This is The Sims 4 there is no excuse for failure to deliver on themes that have been done before and have been done much better.

What do you mean by "years of asking for proper apartments" ? Does that include the TS2 era as well or just from TS3 onwards?

Apartments were introduced in the final EP for The Sims 2, and regardless of what some people say today it was a real game changer for that game.

Naturally people were wanting something similar to make it's way into Sims 3, but the closest thing we got was the building shells with room markers that turned doors into 'NPC doors'. Pretty much the high rise buildings contained 1 apartment, or penthouse, but there was no functionality added that matched or exceeded what was available from 2. It was actually pretty similar to Sims 4 without the building restrictions.

So naturally Sims 4 comes along they have a minimum of ~ 5 years feedback pertaining to apartments. Sims 2 apartments were always the clear winner, and what we got in Sims 4 is so far from being even remotely similar. The ones in 4 offer the least in every aspect compared to Sims 2 and even compared to Sims 3 are missing some basic level functionality like free build. The ones in 4 are so heavily themed with exaggerated interactions and environments that are ultimately forced on the player and cannot be changed in any meaningful way.

IMO the biggest appeal to apartments (TS2) was how useful they were. I loved being able to plop 4 families into an apartment complex and see how their lives would intersect (visiting individual residences was not possible in Sims 2 except for apartment neighbors). I didn't care for them in Sims 3 because they weren't incredibly useful (only 1 unit per lot regardless of how many NPC doors you create) and were pretty much there to decorate the world. The apartments in 4 are not useful at all. There's zero control over their shape/size, some have locked in lot traits, there is only 1 'unit' per apartment as the one 'next door' is a completely different lot. The whole apartment building is limited to usually one floor, (two buildings have two floors) the max being 3 (only one building has 3 floors) and every apartment is restricted to it's assigned place in one world because they are just there to decorate the world. No thought was realistically put into their development.
TS1299
8 years ago
"drake_mccarty;c-16031840" wrote:
"agustd;c-16031066" wrote:
"drake_mccarty;c-16030398" wrote:
Focusing on the 'apartment gameplay' was probably the worst decision they made for CL. After years of players asking for proper apartments they came out with something that doesn't really deliver for anyone.

Bottom line apartments should not be locked away from the player. We should be able to build them freely in any world without the insane restrictions. Most of the apartment gameplay isn't exclusive to apartments either which IMO makes the whole setup feel totally forced and unusable. This is The Sims 4 there is no excuse for failure to deliver on themes that have been done before and have been done much better.

What do you mean by "years of asking for proper apartments" ? Does that include the TS2 era as well or just from TS3 onwards?

Apartments were introduced in the final EP for The Sims 2, and regardless of what some people say today it was a real game changer for that game.

Naturally people were wanting something similar to make it's way into Sims 3, but the closest thing we got was the building shells with room markers that turned doors into 'NPC doors'. Pretty much the high rise buildings contained 1 apartment, or penthouse, but there was no functionality added that matched or exceeded what was available from 2. It was actually pretty similar to Sims 4 without the building restrictions.

So naturally Sims 4 comes along they have a minimum of ~ 5 years feedback pertaining to apartments. Sims 2 apartments were always the clear winner, and what we got in Sims 4 is so far from being even remotely similar. The ones in 4 offer the least in every aspect compared to Sims 2 and even compared to Sims 3 are missing some basic level functionality like free build. The ones in 4 are so heavily themed with exaggerated interactions and environments that are ultimately forced on the player and cannot be changed in any meaningful way.

IMO the biggest appeal to apartments (TS2) was how useful they were. I loved being able to plop 4 families into an apartment complex and see how their lives would intersect (visiting individual residences was not possible in Sims 2 except for apartment neighbors). I didn't care for them in Sims 3 because they weren't incredibly useful (only 1 unit per lot regardless of how many NPC doors you create) and were pretty much there to decorate the world. The apartments in 4 are not useful at all. There's zero control over their shape/size, some have locked in lot traits, there is only 1 'unit' per apartment as the one 'next door' is a completely different lot. The whole apartment building is limited to usually one floor, (two buildings have two floors) the max being 3 (only one building has 3 floors) and every apartment is restricted to it's assigned place in one world because they are just there to decorate the world. No thought was realistically put into their development.

When it comes to apartments, I think they can do the same thing that they did with The Sims 2. The problem now is they focused on creating High-Rise apartment rather than Townhouse apartment like the ones in The Sims 2. The only game that got High Rises apartment is The Sims 3. Since the theme is "Living in the City" they decided to go to an high-rise apartment like they did with The Sims 3 to give us a more city feel. So they had to follow the feedback from The Sims 3 apartments as they built the apartments, they probably do the same thing they did with sims 3 such as using shells. Based on the feedback they got from those apartments, people wanted npc with apartments. Since these is an high-rise apartment with a possibly similar technology like they had with the sims 3, they had to sacrifice game play over building. In my opinion, if the gameplay of these apartments had turned out to be better than sims 2, then I say its fine, but sadly its not.

Still I don't think its fair to compare High-Rise apartments with Townhouse Apartments since they both have different technologies when they are created. Especially high-rises appears to have more restriction as shown in 2 games. They are both apartments, but the way the function, created, and deliver gameplay will be going to be different in my point of view. :)
drake_mccarty
8 years ago
It's absolutely fair. Sims 4 apartment setup is literally just small lots suspended in the air and encased in an object built to look like a Sims 4 building. It's not like Sims 3's setup at all aside from the building shell to give it shape. The common area isn't even on a lot it's part of the shell, and each unit is a completely separate lot.

If they could have achieved Sims 2 style apartments the lot could still be suspended in the air and encased in a shell. They made a choice to offer lots that look like apartments in the city, and to make that less obvious they added a few 'gameplay' things that are restricted to a few apartments and can't be used anywhere else. The technology behind Sims 4's apartments is more of a lack of technology, because they function exactly like regular lots with severe restrictions.
drake_mccarty
8 years ago
"TS1299;c-16031966" wrote:
"drake_mccarty;c-16031950" wrote:
It's absolutely fair. Sims 4 apartment setup is literally just small lots suspended in the air and encased in an object built to look like a Sims 4 building. It's not like Sims 3's setup at all aside from the building shell to give it shape. The common area isn't even on a lot it's part of the shell, and each unit is a completely separate lot.

If they could have achieved Sims 2 style apartments the lot could still be suspended in the air and encased in a shell. They made a choice to offer lots that look like apartments in the city, and to make that less obvious they added a few 'gameplay' things that are restricted to a few apartments and can't be used anywhere else. The technology behind Sims 4's apartments is more of a lack of technology, because they function exactly like regular lots with severe restrictions.

Thank you for your explanation. I really don't have enough knowledge when it comes to apartments, so I just always look it in my point of view. I agree with you. If they did similar to two, then this will be so much better. Still, Apartments are one of the features that lacks depth in Sims 4 and needed to be improved upon.

I completely agree. I'm not sure I would buy apartments a second time, but if they came out with something that was actually different and wasn't limited by developer created restrictions then I may consider it.
Kaiyan40
7 years ago
I totally agree with everything listed if they integrated the emotions more with the traits I wouldn't feel like having 3 traits doesn't make my sim unique at all. Its just bad game design really when playing the game. Like for example, there is no statistics on your skills and no more skill challenges. So after you write your first book and the royalties end for it there is no proof that you wrote it, you can't even check what's your best selling book, your worst selling book, how many books you wrote in each genre. You don't even keep a copy or get a copy of your first book or any books for that matter. You lose that certain depth of gameplay when it comes to skill levels on not just writing but every skill. Skill challenges were cool showed that you had the depth of your skills when you completed them it wasn't all based on just the number but by your actions.

The whims system I agree with too the whole whims system is less contextual and has no progression than the wants system in Sims 3. In the Sims 3 after you leveled a skill, you would get a want to level it again and then a want to level it to 5 and then another want again to max it out. And this was triggered off something the player did in the game and most of the wants in Sims 3 is like that whether it was an activity, a romance, or friendship. I got a want once to bring a lover back to life after they died. Sims 3 made the wants based on what the player did and what was happening in the game which added depth to the gameplay. They need to implement that again here with Sims 4 and in a way to improve the need to integrate that more with the traits. If you're a good sim you get the want to revive someone back to life if your evil you want to release their spirit to the Netherworld, and etc.

There are so many things they can do but not for this Sims 4. The customization and gameplay are scaled back too much. They could have kept the color wheel but eliminate choosing the patterns. They could have sectioned off neighborhoods instead of a loading screen to go next door. They didn't have to eliminate cars of all kinds they could have at least put a car to pick you up like the Sims 1 did instead of making you disappear into the ether. I don't know if it's technically feasible to open up the world into sections maybe if I was developing on this game I would know if it is but I don't think its possible. The color wheel may be out of reach too. But the cars and features presented to improve are feasible I believe they can do it they won't do it because it's too much work for EA as they won't open up the budget to allow them to complete it. The best thing is that they take into account what worked in previous titles and the ideas presented here and implement it into the next iteration.
Sigzy_29
New Spectator
7 years ago
I wish they'd do all this. Plus I have been asking for shopping bags that costumers have after making a purchase like in OFB before they leave the store but nothing.
Sigzy_29
New Spectator
7 years ago
"TS1299;d-924539" wrote:

6. Ghost - I am very serious about this. They are not scary anymore. They felt sims with different colors.
Ways to improve
Sims should not see them by default, instead it is up to the player or on their actions if they will become visible to sims.
Sims shouldn't have just talk to a ghost so easily. They should be scared at the beginning, like panicking because they saw one.
Ghost should have the ability to pass through walls.
Ghost should have more unique abilities, powers depending on their death type.
Ghost should also have mean interaction that can scare sims.

Ghosts do have a unique power depending on their death I think as ghosts they shouldn't be too overpowered, also they can indeed pass through walls the thing is ghosts have normal routing like sims, therefore they will always opt by the "normal" path. If they are in a room without doors they can get through it, it's just that they don't do that autonomously.

But I 100% agree with ghosts being scary. I wish they would reenact their death like in TS2, ghosts would play out their death animation at random it was scary and they could kill sims by scaring them to death.