Forum Discussion
"Erpe;c-16213305" wrote:
"Scobre;c-16212914" wrote:
"Simsfan99111;c-16207138" wrote:
The one ep a year thing is such a pain especially when your still waiting for something that really gets you excited and interests you.
It is painfully slow. Part of the reason why I hope the Sims 4 ends in the normal life cycle in 2019 for a Sims game. I'm ready for a new base game with a different release schedule with a different focus than what the Sims 4 has had with CAS focused packs. I want to see EPs redeem themselves with the franchise. I've never been a fan of SPs and Sims 4 focusing mainly on those packs than the other packs makes it a real downer when coming up with ideas for the Sims 4 given how limited the scope packs are this iteration. Hopefully GPs will replace SPs for the next iteration and we will see 2 EPs released per year again. I don't think anyone can honestly say $40 worth of SPs offers the same amount of gameplay a $40 EP offers even if EPs haven't impressed me this iteration. Game packs have exceeded my expectations so I wouldn't mind if that pack type continues with future Sims iterations. So I am hopeful for the Sims future and seeing the franchise grow some more. At least the gender patch was a push in expanding the franchise and nice seeing more grown up toddlers this time around.
Anyways good article despite the goof up of the Sims 3 EP release schedule being not correct. I hope that 2018 does impress me more than 2017 did and brings some sort of real transportation into the game, so here is hoping for Sims 2 type of cars that pull out of driveways and have fun interactions again while still exceeding my expectations for them for the Sims 4. I would love if Sims could use the ferry and streetcar as transportation too.
Alas I don’t see it likely that the number of yearly EPs will increase in the future or that SPs will be replaced by GPs because this hasn't been the tendency at all :( Instead the tendency has been:
1. More and more SPs and stuff replacing new gameplay.
2. EPs being more and more replaced by GPs.
So I fear that TS5 won’t get EPs at all.
If I should guess about other new things in TS5 it would be:
1. More online options.
2. More options for ingame purchases such that some of the free content now will be sold as ingame purchases instead.
3. SPs could maybe at least partly be replaced by ingame purchases.
4. GPs as the main expansions. But maybe with more stuff and less new gameplay in them.
I don’t like stuff myself. But for a company like EA everything depends on costs and sales numbers. Stuff is many times cheaper for EA to add than new gameplay is because new gameplay requires a lot of programming, testing and bug fixing. Stuff mainly only requires artists. So stuff can be made much faster than new gameplay and with much fewer developers working on it. So when simmers just buy stuff just as much as new gameplay then EA will always give stuff much higher priority than new gameplay. No surprise there! I would just wish that there wasn’t so extremely many simmers who just buy all the SPs too...
The low priority of EPs can in my opinion only be caused by lower sales numbers for them which again must be caused by their higher price which makes it difficult for especially very young simmers (who need their parents to pay the bill) to get them. This problem has only become bigger when everything now is sold as digital downloads which makes it hard for young simmers to get EPs as presents for birthdays of Christmas too.
So it doesn’t really surprise me that EA’s main strategy now is “more, but cheaper expansions and with more stuff and less gameplay”. I just don’t like this strategy at all :(
Yeah I have a feeling that is what is going to happen in reality too. Probably going to microtransaction even more with packs. It is just sad how it feels like gameplay isn't important in the Sims games anymore so making it feel like the life aspect of the life simulator is taken away from the franchise with each new version of the Sims. I just don't want Sims games turned into Animal Crossing games but it is feeling like they are heading that direction and nothing anyone can do about it. Maybe competition will breath in new life for the life simulation genre and give Maxis a run for their money like how City Skylines did. I know that if the Sims 4 extends beyond the five year life then it will confirm it is really half-baked game to me that needs to be treated like a charity case to bake longer.- In a nutshell.
TS4 and The Sims future thereafter. Consumers today are supporting this business model thus giving EA the continuous green light to okay it. The Sims is no longer The Sims and it's future is non-existent as a true life simulator and successor of both TS2 and TS3.
https://s25.postimg.org/dppuov03j/PBl_AUZS.jpg "LeGardePourpre;c-16215096" wrote:
"@Deshong04;c-16214819" wrote:
In a nutshell.
TS4 and The Sims future thereafter. Consumers today are supporting this business model thus giving EA the continuous green light to okay it. The Sims is no longer The Sims and it's future is non-existent as a true life simulator and successor of both TS2 and TS3.
https://s25.postimg.org/dppuov03j/PBl_AUZS.jpg
To be fair "now" should get a bigger paint with more details than Mona Lisa since it's more difficult to develop than The Sims 1.
The Sims 1: 834007 lines of codes
The Sims 4: 11948353 lines of codes (14 x TS1)
Source : https://www.ea.com/games/the-sims/the-sims-4/pc/news/16th-anniversary-items
Just counting the lines of codes doesn’t really tell much about the difficulty to develop the games because the problems are different:
1. The Sims 1 had to have few lines of code because it was distributed on media that had limited space and because computers at the time were much slower and had little ram and a small harddrive too. Therefore the developers couldn’t use as advanced code generating tools as they can now because code generators tend to make much more code than needed.
2. Now the developers have much more advanced code generating tools and they don’t need to care about the program having much more code than really needed anymore because computers are fast, has a lot of ram and a huge harddrive. Also it doesn’t even matter if the game takes a little longer to download anymore because the internet has become extremely fast too.
I still remember when the game company Microprose (the biggest in the world then) in 1989 released the game M1 Tank Platoon on just two diskettes. To have a whole advanced and realistic platoon of 4 tanks and with support units to send to battle in such a game back then the programmers had to just program everything in assembler code which takes extremely long time but reduces the size of the code maybe about 10 times. So M1 Tank Platoon was a very hard game to develop exactly because its code had to be on only two discs which also could be used to replace the harddrive to just start the game up.
So don’t assume that the games are harder to develop just because they have more code lines because often it is actually the opposite way. Games are generally much faster to develop if the use of more advanced code generating tools is allowed ;)"LeGardePourpre;c-16215198" wrote:
@Erpe
No emotion, minimal Sim AI, no 3D, no toddler, no multitask, ... I'm sure there are thousands of details which isn't in The Sims 1 and made it easier to develop.
You can compare the roller coaster in TS1 and TS3 Store, the difficulty isn't at the same level.
I agree that TS1 was a very small dumped down game with outdated graphics from the 1980s and especially the basegame. This was also the reason why I didn’t understand why all those young girls suddenly came into the game stores and bought it. I became curious and studied the basegame box and later also the boxes for the EPs. But to me it still looked just like a cheap ugly game. So I never bought it and I still don’t understand why its sales numbers suddenly broke all records!
So it is still obvious for me that EA didn’t expect the high sales numbers either and therefore just gave the Sims 1 a very small budget. But to EA’s surprise the sales numbers became so incredible high that EA had to expand the game a lot in the expansions. Still it wasn’t an easy game especially to expand because it hadn’t been meant to expand very much. The EPs therefore gave the developers a lot of problems which we can’t compare with the later Sims games.
But TS2 was a big game already from the beginning and although it had much fewer code lines too it wasn’t easier to develop than TS4. TS2 and TS4 are very different to compare though because TS2 had much more gameplay (except for the multitasking) while TS4 is bigger mainly because it has higher resolution graphics and more autonomy.- It concerns me he said the biggest pack is out of the way. Quote: ( Pets is the biggest one). ???
Exactly what does that mean? All other future packs are not as huge? If so I dread to see what comes next in content or lack of. Not saying they can't put a new twist on old ideas but saying their biggest is out of the way should concern everyone who wants more gameplay and content contained in one pack and not less for more. "Erpe;c-16215415" wrote:
"Cinebar;c-16215406" wrote:
It concerns me he said the biggest pack is out of the way. Exactly what does that mean? All other future packs are not as huge? If so I dread to see what comes next in content or lack of. Not saying they can't put a new twist on old ideas but saying their biggest is out of the way should concern everyone who wants more gameplay and content contained in one pack and not less for more.
I think that it just means that the next packs are SPs and GPs. Likely starting with SPs. So I read it as they will start with making the next EP later such that it can be released late in 2018 like they usually have done it in recent years.
No, he went on to say but they are not going away, the biggest pack is out of the way but they intend to bring a lot of content to 2018. (Parapharzed). But that sounds like piecemealing to me for the future of 2018."simgirl1010;c-16199815" wrote:
"aricarai;c-16199270" wrote:
"simgirl1010;c-16199268" wrote:
Maybe we're not getting Seasons.
Could you imagine the uproar?!
I'm sure there would be but for me it wouldn't be a game breaker. I know the game is supposed to be a life simulator and weather is part of life but after 2 versions of Seasons, both of which I still play, I'm really ready for something different. I would be okay with a game pack that provided a world with seasonal weather and seasonal activities. Similar to how weather is handled in Sims FreePlay. A seasonal world with ice skating, ice hockey, skiing, snowboarding.
The problem is would there be a game pack for the other seasons? :o
That sure reminds me of The Sims Vacation pack (mountain area) even down to how the art style looks.- ERPE - http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/Game_engine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_engine
The Sims 1 was not built on an 80's game engine - in fact in the 80's what game engine would that have been? LOL. In 85 I was playing games on a Commodore 64 - long before there was actual pcs for games. We did built an H8 computer from Heathkit around 1984 and there were no such thing as Operating Systems - so I took courses in Machine Basic at college and learned to make programs for the H8. Programs you could buy used to come in a kind of magazine - and it took weeks of typing in a single program to do anything with that early computer. There were not any game engines to speak of for sure. I was there. I know better. There were not much offering for a game period on a pc. I recall hangman (simple stick figure) and a simple solitaire card game that each took a couple weeks of typing into that pc to be playable. Lord help you if you missed a single icon - because it would not work and you had to wipe the whole thing and start over. Believe me there were no actual game engines - no harddrives - no anything at all we would even recognize now a days as a pc. Besides I was not programming the computer to play anything - never mind the very few offerings out there - I was programming it for college work I was doing. So that is a pure falsehood to say Sims 1 was built on an 80 game engine - when in fact it's game engine was built new and included a brand new 2D/3d design of the time. Even Will Wright spoke of the new technology he was getting to use to build his game on - with lots of joy at getting the chance to use it for a game of his design.
Back when Sims 1 came out I did not know any kids playing the game period. When I went to the store to buy eps - it was not teenybooper buying the game - it was 20-30 year olds. I admit it was almost always females, not males back then but we were ya's. It was popular with college girls and young mothers a like. We weren't buying it for our kids if we had kids - we were buying it for ourselves. It was so great to have a game about just being people instead of all the fighting or sports games out at that time. I never looked at it as a dollhouse or as a childs game at all - but as a game that help YA's learn how to manage their time, run a household, and work a job - etc - etc. Maybe it was a different experience in your country Erpe - but that was my experience. The Sims 2 was the same way. In fact when Sims 2 came out moms here would have not dreamed of allowing their young daughters to have such a game. Maybe in Europe that was okay - but in the USA small town America - it was not at that time in our history (Honestly, I did have a good number of friends who played the game with their children - but they did not buy the game for their kids that were under 13. I had a few friends who would not have allowed their 14 year old to play it by themselves for heavens sakes. Granted even I thought that was a bit much - and I was raised strictly. (My mom would not let me have a Barbie doll until I was 13 for crying out loud) LOL.
http://oldcomputers.net/heathkit-h8.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BASIC
This was how you played with an 1984 pc after you built the pc from scratch practically
- Machine basic programming from 1984
https://www.google.com/search?q=Machine+basic+programming+from+1984&client=firefox-b-1&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiY-vnkkIrYAhWMRyYKHfVeDosQsAQIMg&biw=1889&bih=950
ERPE - You should know all this - after all didn't you say you were a computer teacher. Odd if you don't know all this. - keekee53Seasoned Newcomer
"jackjack_k;c-16199490" wrote:
"@MidnightAura;c-16199430" wrote:
"jackjack_k;c-16199418" wrote:
"@MidnightAura;c-16199307" wrote:
I wish they would stop talking about toddlers and pools and act like giving them free was the most generous act ever. It isn't. As said already it's base game content that should have been there at launch. As already mentioned the Sims 3 had more than one expansion a year and it shows. From the interview Grant implies they are making more content for this game then previously. All I see is expansions being served on a smaller plate with key features being served as separate dishes.
They’re not. They are reminding people they were free, not paid for DLC, because everyone assumed they would be paid DLC.
Also, Redwood are technically making more content than ever before. Salt Lake City made some of the EP’s, all of the TS3 store, and some of the Stuff Packs.
Take away the Salt Lake content, and the output from Redwood is 8 Expansions, and a few Stuff Packs (4 out the 9 that were released).
Salt Lake City isn’t Maxis. So Grant is correct.
As I said stop reminding people EA gave us base game content we had enjoyed previously free of charge. Had they given us something free we had previously paid for like I don't know weather I could understand it. (Note I don't expect weather for free)
So output from Redwood is 8 expansions previously, expansions we have had this iteration, what 4? And a number of stuff packs. Still don't agree that's more content then previously. If we were getting more content why are so many unhappy with how thin expansions are? If we are getting more content than ever before why are people complaining there's nothing to do in game?
But they need to, so people don't think it was charged to us. If you remember, everyone was saying Toddlers, Pools and Ghosts were omitted to sell to us later. That's bad press and they need to remind people that's not what they did.
You read it as a hardcore Sims fan, these interviews are for people who haven't bought into The Sims 4 yet.
And we've have 4 Expansions, 5 Game Packs and 12 Stuff Packs from Redwood. So that works out to be around 6 - 7 Expansions worth of content, and we're at Year 3 (and 3 months)
We got 8 Expansions and 4 Stuff Packs as of Year 4 and 5 months. So yeah, it's a lot more suff than previous.
And the people complaining are minority. 200 million players a month clearly means people are finding The Sims 4 enjoyable.
It's the same folk on here on here who seem to say there is "nothing to do". You don't get 200m players a month with a game where there is nothing to do, do you?
:)
umm but I did pay for it when I bought that empty base game. So in my eyes it was not free so they really need to get over it. - @jackjack_k, I'll have to disagree with you about your statement TS4 has about 6-7 EPs worth of content...since you added up GPs/EPs and Stuff Packs.. Even if you do, EPs in TS2 or even TS1 had around 125 or so new objects, or decor each. Just in general didn't do an exact count lately of those. Then there is gameplay, it's year three, going fast toward year four.
We still don't have seasons, or all those interactions like festivals for seasons, animations, gameplay, seasonal interactions, holidays, seasonal parties, let alone what can be done in each season like raking leaves or snowmen. Then even after three years still no owneable cars. Still no 'dance together' still no slow dance, still no attraction system, still not any more occult Sims like werewolf, PlantSim, Mermaid, BigFoot, Witch, etc. etc. Still no ability to build duplexes, or condos, still no ability to swim in bodies of water other than pools. Still no ablity to roller skate or ice skate. Still no generational play like proms, teach to drive a car, or even elderly to pass on inheritance. Still no magic town or magic in game. Still no rides such as roller coasters and other carinval rides, still no vaction areas other than mountains. Still no time machine or time travel, still no university or higher education system.
So, even if you consider TS4 has about 6-7 EPs worth of content in three years, take a long hard look at what it doesn't have that by this time the stuff I mentioned was already in the other games at least 99% of what I mentioned was already in TS1 and TS2 the third year. (and even in TS3)
ETA: Even more I just thought about, still no honeymoon, still no nectar or nectar making, still no bands or drums, still no fashion career or new ambitions or life time wants, still the same amount of trait slots not even a new slot added, still no new skills like clean. Still no firemen, or burglars, still no hotels, ....you can add up clutter but it won't equal EP gameplay.
Going on four years, and still no hobbies....three years and how many new traits? Year three and how many new skills and or life time wants or new wishes? Crickets.
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