Make-yourself-simulator vs dollhouse simulator

The marketing definitely leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Everytime I see it,it reminds me self self instagram lifestyle. Which I try to stay far away from. Cinebar said it best.
I NEVER play with my simself to escape my miserable life into an alternate reality (sounds mentally unhealthy) and I never play a game to feel safe. I've been playing games since I was a small child and it was for nothing more than ENTERTAINING Mindless fun. And that's why I play the sims now. That and creating stories. And as stated above I want drama, good, evil, danger, safety, all of it! The fun part is having the choice! In sims 4 I struggle to get out of the "safe space"

"ClarionOfJoy;c-17451716" wrote:

Hi, just wanted to point out that you are NEVER locked into a TS3 world. Without mods, all the worlds have access to China, Egypt, France, the university town, and three versions of the future world. With the Traveler mod, you can go to even more - just install any or all the worlds made for the TS3. That would be hundreds of worlds of all sizes and environments. In TS4 - you're stuck with whatever EAxis made which isn't a whole lot compared to TS3's worlds. And those TS4 worlds are TINY. Don't call them worlds - they're really just small neighborhoods.

1. Mods doesn't count.
2. None of those worlds are interesting. I never liked the World Adventure and only used it for two things: Go to China ONCE per family to learn martial arts and get the training dummy and use the plants for build mode.
3. Again, mods doesn't count when discussing game features. I also don't like using them in general (I only have two mods in Sims 4: MCCC and Meaningful Stories. No CC, no other mods).

"ClarionOfJoy;c-17451716" wrote:

All TS3 worlds are editable! I don't know why you had so much trouble with it. Someone else managed to revamp Twinbrook and added in all the expansion packs except Into the Future. But TS3 being highly editable, you can add new lots to this world most anywhere you want. Here's what someone did to update Twinbrook to give you an idea of what TS3 can do.

Yes they are editable if you have the time and find it interesting to learn the modding tools. For us who only deleted lots and put in new ones... You had very limited space.

"ClarionOfJoy;c-17451716" wrote:

Yeah, that's the false mantra being touted about TS3 now but I have proven this to be untrue. The benefit of being able to jump from one world to another for TS4 is hollow though because those worlds are not even worlds, but tiny, TINY little neighborhoods with only a few lots each. So you would HAVE to jump from one world to another because it gets so boring just staying in one TS4 neighborhood. Moreover, you can't create new neighborhoods or even add lots of any size - you can't even move the current lots around to different areas of the neighborhood or change their size!

if you can't do it without mods, it is not "false".
Also again, the vacation worlds are not proper worlds, so I don't count them.
As for the rest, agree to disagree. I vastly prefer Sims 4's world system over Sims 3's. Sims 3's was (again, without mods) trapping you in one world. Yes it was editable, but if you didn't have the skill or the patience... And of course even for me that had a mid range gaming PC, the game ran like it thought it was Crysis or something. I did try a number of custom worlds but most were... not very good, or suffered from bugs (because not supported properly) or empty, which meant nothing but potato heads in random clothing showing up.

Now, if Maxis had expanded every world with every pack and added all the buildings in (like creating new lots in Sunset Valley like a fire station or a nightclub when those packs came) that would have been awesome. As it actually functioned you basically (again, without mods) had to chose between "In this game my family will never ever ever visit a nightclub" or "in this game my family will never ever ever be a fireman, or build a Simbot, or..."

"ClarionOfJoy;c-17452586" wrote:

"Beardedgeek;c-17452324" wrote:

"ClarionOfJoy;c-17451716" wrote:

Hi, just wanted to point out that you are NEVER locked into a TS3 world. Without mods, all the worlds have access to China, Egypt, France, the university town, and three versions of the future world. With the Traveler mod, you can go to even more - just install any or all the worlds made for the TS3. That would be hundreds of worlds of all sizes and environments. In TS4 - you're stuck with whatever EAxis made which isn't a whole lot compared to TS3's worlds. And those TS4 worlds are TINY. Don't call them worlds - they're really just small neighborhoods.

1. Mods doesn't count.

Yeah right. If mods don't count in TS3, then they don't count in TS4. Which means that TS4 doesn't even run properly without mods. Which means sims don't do what they're suppose to do without mods. Which means you lose most of the interesting gameplay that mods actually add to that boring game.

At least in TS3, it's not necessary to install mods to make the sims work properly or to add gameplay since there is already so much of it. I've recently been playing the game today without mods and there was a lot to do and lots of places to go.

There is also a way to go to another world without mods. You make a backup of the original worlds, China, Egypt and France, and then put a copy of a world you want your sim to go into that folder. Rename it to one of the WA worlds, and there you have it! My sim was able to go to Isla Paradiso on vacation without the Traveler mod!

"Beardedgeek;c-17452324" wrote:

3. None of those worlds are interesting. I never liked the World Adventure and only used it for two things: Go to China ONCE per family to learn martial arts and get the training dummy and use the plants for build mode.

You only mentioned China and didn't go to the other two worlds and didn't utilize all that those worlds offered? Then that's not the fault of the game, is it? That is the fault of your own rigidity.

With the World Adventure EP, you get three distinct worlds - each with their own sims people, songs, food, books, insects, metals, gems, architectural design, and three different but beautiful landscapes. Each one introduced a new skill that wasn't shallow. They all made for very deep gameplay. And of course all the tomb explorations!

1. Shang Simla (China)


https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-m1UPZUzD2lg/V0Trg-UOj-I/AAAAAAAAL2k/2QfT9A7yu0sYV3kw3tsak58tnWn-0KZ1QCLcB/s1600/Shang%2BSimla%2B2%2B-%2BThe%2BSims%2B3%2BWorld%2BAdventures.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XZJrSJn_gSo/TYa5hWvz86I/AAAAAAAAAIg/V9EYrRU_KQM/s1600/the-sims-3-world-adventures-20091009021109892_640w.jpg

Major skill introduced in this world: Martial Arts
Minor skill: Meditation and Ninja Teleporting


What you see in the picture is just a small portion of the map by the way. It is beautiful and has so many interesting places to go. I'm posting a link to Carl's guide for other readers so that they will know all the good fun things they can do just in that one world alone.


Carl's Sims 3 Guide to Shang Simla (China)


And that is just the first world! Here are the other two!

2. Al Simhara (Egypt)


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xVGM6w4nA18/Tha3DG74UMI/AAAAAAABWgE/uQWUF0O5cJw/s1600/Screenshot-534.jpg

Major skill introduced: Photography
Minor Skill: Snake Charming

Carl's Sims 3 Guide to Al Simhara (Egypt)


3. Champs Les Sims (France)


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4m_q8Dtu-cI/maxresdefault.jpg

Major skill introduced: Nectar Making


5. Again, mods doesn't count when discussing game features. I also don't like using them in general (I only have two mods in Sims 4: MCCC and Meaningful Stories. No CC, no other mods).

You're only setting up these rules for this discussion because you know Sims 4 doesn't have much to begin with. So you want to "limit" TS3 as well. Okay. If you want to go by those rules, I can use MasterController and Overwatch, but I don't need to. Unlike with TS4 which actually needs mods to make it playable and interesting. Because even without those NRAAS mods, my sims work properly and do what they're suppose to do. Plus TS3 has more gameplay that works properly. Most of the little gameplay in TS4 doesn't or can't even exist without mods.

You can't even do any work-arounds for TS4 like in TS3. For example, if you don't want to use any traveler mod, as I had mentioned before, you can still send your sims to other worlds.

So I'm glad that TS3 still has so many playable options! It has far more working features than TS4 without mods.

"Beardedgeek;c-17452324" wrote:

"ClarionOfJoy;c-17451716" wrote:

All TS3 worlds are editable! I don't know why you had so much trouble with it. Someone else managed to revamp Twinbrook and added in all the expansion packs except Into the Future. But TS3 being highly editable, you can add new lots to this world most anywhere you want. Here's what someone did to update Twinbrook to give you an idea of what TS3 can do.

Yes they are editable if you have the time and find it interesting to learn the modding tools. For us who only deleted lots and put in new ones... You had very limited space.

*Shrug* I'm not a modder either and I'm not a TS3 world builder. But I've been able to change all the TS3 worlds I play to just the way that I want them. I don't find it very interesting or fun when one can only work with the few lots each tiny TS4 neighborhood has. You can't add more lots, can't change the size of the current lots and you can't move them around! And on top of that, you can't even change how those tiny TS4 neighborhoods look. Again, TS4 just doesn't allow for much creativity and options. That's one of the reasons why I don't play it. It's just so restrictive which makes it so boring.

"Beardedgeek;c-17452324" wrote:

"ClarionOfJoy;c-17451716" wrote:

Yeah, that's the false mantra being touted about TS3 now but I have proven this to be untrue. The benefit of being able to jump from one world to another for TS4 is hollow though because those worlds are not even worlds, but tiny, TINY little neighborhoods with only a few lots each. So you would HAVE to jump from one world to another because it gets so boring just staying in one TS4 neighborhood. Moreover, you can't create new neighborhoods or even add lots of any size - you can't even move the current lots around to different areas of the neighborhood or change their size!

if you can't do it without mods, it is not "false".
Also again, the vacation worlds are not proper worlds, so I don't count them.
As for the rest, agree to disagree. I vastly prefer Sims 4's world system over Sims 3's. Sims 3's was (again, without mods) trapping you in one world. Yes it was editable, but if you didn't have the skill or the patience... And of course even for me that had a mid range gaming PC, the game ran like it thought it was Crysis or something. I did try a number of custom worlds but most were... not very good, or suffered from bugs (because not supported properly) or empty, which meant nothing but potato heads in random clothing showing up.

Again, that's just you setting the "rules" of this discussion to try to limit what TS3 can do to try to make TS4 look "more". But even with the limitations you've set for this conversation, TS3 still has a lot more playable and interesting gameplay and mechanics without mods. I played TS3 for quite a long time without mods until I got to Island Paradise. If I really didn't want to install mods but want to scuba dive and do all the fun water and beach activities that Island Paradise has, all I need to to do is use one of the many fan-made worlds to play.

And compare TS3's HUGE vacation worlds with many different lots and the whole world itself to explore, to TS4's tiny vacation neighborhoods with only a few lots that might be interesting for the initial 10 minutes. Yeah. A TS3 vacation world still gives you more bang for your buck than any of TS4's tiny vacation neighborhoods.

Also, I don't believe you at all when you say that most of the custom worlds you've tried were not very good. Every TS3 world creator gives each world plenty of time and quality test their worlds with the help of the TS3 community to make sure they run fine without lags or routing issues. Also TS3 world creators would want you to report if you see any problem with their worlds.

By the way, I played Crysis and it works fine on my ancient computer with the 4gb and integrated Intel graphics. So I'm starting to think that the problem isn't so much the games, but more you.

"Beardedgeek;c-17452324" wrote:

Now, if Maxis had expanded every world with every pack and added all the buildings in (like creating new lots in Sunset Valley like a fire station or a nightclub when those packs came) that would have been awesome. As it actually functioned you basically (again, without mods) had to chose between "In this game my family will never ever ever visit a nightclub" or "in this game my family will never ever ever be a fireman, or build a Simbot, or..."

This shows me that you either have never played TS3 or haven't played it much enough to know better. When the second EP, Ambitions, came out and is installed into the game, it gives an option when you start playing a new world to automatically add the firestation, salon, etc. etc. Same thing with Showtime, Supernatural and Pet commercial venues. With the Seasons EP, all the big parks get replaced with holiday versions of those parks. But you don't seem to know that!

Also, I don't know if it ever dawned on you, but if you wanted to place a specific lot from an EP into your world, you can do that - without mods even. ??? All you do is place an empty lot of any size up to 64x64 most anywhere you want in your world, update its type to what you want and then put any community or residential lot you want there. This is BASIC TS3 101. Every TS3 player knows this! I've even put in all the lots myself that I like from every EP into the worlds I play - with no mods and no problems. Where did you get the idea that you need mods for that? This is why I don't think you've really played TS3 to know what you're talking about.



Of course I tried all the travel pack features. They were boring and pointless, the crypt thing for example was just annoying. The "Nectar" thing in France was just... I can't even remember what the point was with it actually.
I just don't like vacations in Sims. the Holiday pack in Sims 1 was horribad. So was it in Sims 2. And boring in Sims 3. Outdoor Living in Sims 4 is the only expansion pack I truly regret buing even on sale, it adds absolutely nothing to the game, is just tedious and boring. (Oddly enough I really enjoy Jungle Adventure tho, unlike Outdoor Living)

So, therefore after trying everything in that pack once, I only used one vacation world, and that was China, and I only played it once with every family and only to get the training dummy, and then you never had to go there again for as long as you played that family.

As for the rest: No. I am not being arbitrary or moving goalposts. I have played 2200 hours of Sims 4 so far, most of the time completely without mods and I have enjoyed it a lot.
So no, Mods is not a valid argument when talking about ANY game. Not Sims, not Fallout, not Skyrim, Mass Effect, Dragon Age or any other. When you compare game features across games saying "Oh but you can fix that with mods" is not a plus, or a feature. It a minus, not a plus.

"Beardedgeek;c-17452595" wrote:
Of course I tried all the travel pack features. They were boring and pointless, the crypt thing for example was just annoying. The "Nectar" thing in France was just... I can't even remember what the point was with it actually.
I just don't like vacations in Sims. the Holiday pack in Sims 1 was horribad. So was it in Sims 2. And boring in Sims 3. Outdoor Living in Sims 4 is the only expansion pack I truly regret buing even on sale, it adds absolutely nothing to the game, is just tedious and boring. (Oddly enough I really enjoy Jungle Adventure tho, unlike Outdoor Living)

So, therefore after trying everything in that pack once, I only used one vacation world, and that was China, and I only played it once with every family and only to get the training dummy, and then you never had to go there again for as long as you played that family.

As for the rest: No. I am not being arbitrary or moving goalposts. I have played 2200 hours of Sims 4 so far, most of the time completely without mods and I have enjoyed it a lot.
So no, Mods is not a valid argument when talking about ANY game. Not Sims, not Fallout, not Skyrim, Mass Effect, Dragon Age or any other. When you compare game features across games saying "Oh but you can fix that with mods" is not a plus, or a feature. It a minus, not a plus.

Hey there - first off, if you're going to quote someone, please don't quote their entire post, basically reposting what they're saying again. it floods the discussion making it harder to navigate. quote the relevant part.

Second of all, I love the holiday packs. I liked the tombs in World Adventures even if they get frustrating. I liked Nectar Making, in fact it's a pretty in depth skill, way more in depth than anything The Sims 4 has to offer. Photography (and skills in general) are waaaay more developed in The Sims 3. And even comparing the joke that is Outdoor Living to how immense and full of content World Adventures is, is.... laughable, honestly. At the end of the day though, if you don't like the tombs and the adventuring gameplay, you're not going to like World Adventures.

With that said, you said "what was the point of nectar making". If you're going to argue that, what's the point in skills in general? What's the point in painting, for example, or writing? Since they're the most apt base game comparisons.

Nectar sold for money. If made well, it sold for a LOT of money ($700+ per bottle), and could potentially be a very fast way to make money once you have good, well fertilised crops grown. You could make bottles of nectar faster and more idly than you could paint. You could easily make nectar and have a job, whereas balancing writing and a career? Not as easy.

Just because something isn't made for you, doesn't mean it's bad. World Adventures is niche, and I'll admit that, but in terms of content, it has far more than pretty much any The Sims 4 pack. Same with literally every The Sims 3 pack.

Onto your opinion of worlds though...

I also am glad you can enjoy The Sims 4 for 2200 hours. I wish I could. I build cute sims and cute houses to take screenshots, play a new pack for a little when it comes out, then stop playing and go back to The Sims 2 or 3 because they have so much more to offer in terms of content, and as @ClarionOfJoy said the neighborhoods in The Sims 4 are all tiny and non-customisable, and you can do EXACTLY what you're asking in The Sims 2 anyway.

Something tells me with the way you speak, you've never played The Sims 2, or at least to its full potential, because unlike 3, you don't even need a seperate Create-a-World tool or to download ANYTHING to make new worlds. You can make new worlds from blank presets and add lots at your leisure. If you really want to make your own terrain, you do it in SC4, but it's not necessary to make a new world.

By the way, do you consider gallery sims to be "mods"? If so, how is downloading a town from The Sims 3 Exchange (albeit it's kind of dead now) any different from getting a Sim off the gallery? By doing this, you can have as many towns in as many different sizes as you like, with no CC necessary.

In either of those games, you can add everything that's part of the other neighborhoods in The Sims 4, into your base neighborhood. You don't need all of those little neighborhoods which have like 10-12 lots each max? 3-5 of which you'll likely take up with community lots anyway? Some like Midnight Hollow have even less. Even if you couldn't add lots, which you can with CaW, Sunset Valley, with 92 lots, likely has as many lots by default as there is in the entirety of The Sims 4 up to this point, and far more than TS4 did on release. Sure, The Sims 3 had rabbit holes, but even if you took them out, you still have a LOT of lots. So your talk about how worlds weren't big enough for everything you wanted, yet you're content with The Sims 4? It's a load of bull, frankly.

There is no way you can seriously argue that The Sims 4 has better worlds. It's ridiculous.

Edit: I'd also like to add I use no mods for The Sims 3, whatsoever, except error trap and intro cutscene skip. I use no script mods in TS4. 2 is the only game I use script mods, and they're entirely irrelevant to this conversation, so please don't bring mod talk into this. my game is NOT modded.

"Magnezone;c-17452626" wrote:


There is no way you can seriously argue that The Sims 4 has better worlds. It's ridiculous.

Of course they can. It's called personal preference. It's entirely in the perspective of the player and their gameplay needs. It's like arguing which is better... Coke or Pepsi, PC or Mac, McDonald's or Burger King... no one is "right".

I also like the Sims 4 worlds much better than Sims 3's and even Sims 2, which is my favorite iteration. I'd prefer some of them weren't as small, but I definitely like having a large variety of environments to choose from and the freedom to jump easily between them. And aesthetically I like them a whole lot more than the others.

As for functionality, they do fall flat where lots cannot be changed or moved and there is no environmental tool. I want nothing more than to bulldoze all of the playgrounds and cookout sites. So that was a very bad design choice, in my opinion. But even so, I still like Sims 4 worlds better in general.

"LiELF;c-17452709" wrote:
Of course they can. It's called personal preference. It's entirely in the perspective of the player and their gameplay needs. It's like arguing which is better... Coke or Pepsi, PC or Mac, McDonald's or Burger King... no one is "right".

I also like the Sims 4 worlds much better than Sims 3's and even Sims 2, which is my favorite iteration. I'd prefer some of them weren't as small, but I definitely like having a large variety of environments to choose from and the freedom to jump easily between them. And aesthetically I like them a whole lot more than the others.

As for functionality, they do fall flat where lots cannot be changed or moved and there is no environmental tool. I want nothing more than to bulldoze all of the playgrounds and cookout sites. So that was a very bad design choice, in my opinion. But even so, I still like Sims 4 worlds better in general.

Functionality is what he's arguing though. He's arguing the worlds function better, not that they're prettier. They are - I agree. But they don't function better by any given metric, even if you call it a "preference".

Edit: also, im not talking about the base worlds. I.e. strangetown vs sunset valley vs oasis springs. I'm talking about worlds as a concept, as a function.

I would not mind the all individualism, but the personalities of all the sims 4 are basically the same with the emotion system, so theyre not really that individualistic besides appearance and career choices. The sims team also pick and choose what lifestyles they want in the game so really there is still bias and/or some not being representented.

"Magnezone;c-17452726" wrote:

"LiELF;c-17452709" wrote:
Of course they can. It's called personal preference. It's entirely in the perspective of the player and their gameplay needs. It's like arguing which is better... Coke or Pepsi, PC or Mac, McDonald's or Burger King... no one is "right".

I also like the Sims 4 worlds much better than Sims 3's and even Sims 2, which is my favorite iteration. I'd prefer some of them weren't as small, but I definitely like having a large variety of environments to choose from and the freedom to jump easily between them. And aesthetically I like them a whole lot more than the others.

As for functionality, they do fall flat where lots cannot be changed or moved and there is no environmental tool. I want nothing more than to bulldoze all of the playgrounds and cookout sites. So that was a very bad design choice, in my opinion. But even so, I still like Sims 4 worlds better in general.

Functionality is what he's arguing though. He's arguing the worlds function better, not that they're prettier. They are - I agree. But they don't function better by any given metric, even if you call it a "preference".

Edit: also, im not talking about the base worlds. I.e. strangetown vs sunset valley vs oasis springs. I'm talking about worlds as a concept, as a function.

I see where you're coming from, but preference is still a very big factor and functionality remains debatable. If someone isn't a builder and doesn't care at all about that aspect of the game, then moving lots and changing the world environment isn't going to mean anything to them. So it does actually come down to what the player wants from the world and from the game.

Without mods, Sims 3's worlds kind of lock the player into them. You can't move a household to another world without losing something or having consequences. There are worlds that can be visited, sure, but if you're the kind of player who likes to change environments, move Sims around, or colonize and have Sims living in different regions or settings, it can actually feel very limiting, no matter the size.

When I played Sims 2, I had Sims living in various worlds yet they were able to still meet and interact on community lots and I could switch what cities and towns they lived in. Community lots were always thriving, the same in Sims 4. When I played Sims 3, my nightclub had hardly any Sims in it, which defeated the purpose of using it. Community lots were very sparse (when they weren't rabbit hole buildings, which I can't stand.) The large world was also very cumbersome and twitchy to me and it was harder for me to do things quickly or keep track of locations and Sims in the world. The world mechanics didn't seem very streamlined to me at all. Sims 3 worlds are also known for routing problems and crashing.

I think Sims 3 had potential to have better worlds, but the execution turned out poor and some functions were taken away from Sims 2 in exchange for others. Just as Sims 4 sacrificed functions from Sims 3 for its own function.

And therein lies the real problem: Maxis removed features from previous games in order to offer new ones; rather than working on a system that only expanded on what we had. The series should never have had anything removed to begin with or people wouldn't need to be debating which features are better (or more functional) in what game.

"LiELF;c-17452901" wrote:
I see where you're coming from, but preference is still a very big factor and functionality remains debatable. If someone isn't a builder and doesn't care at all about that aspect of the game, then moving lots and changing the world environment isn't going to mean anything to them. So it does actually come down to what the player wants from the world and from the game.

You see, this is the only thing I can give The Sims 4's worlds - convinience. You load up the game and it has everything you would ever need on a basic functional level from the get go. No need to add things. No need to build things if you won't want. And I can see why this would appeal to some people.

That said, I find a lot of the Maxis builds in The Sims 4 weirdly sad, big and empty though... In terms of decor that is, as you said, Sims do flock them as intended. Maxis lots have never been great, but you won't find a Maxis lot quite was depressing as Planet Honey Pop, the default Karaoke bar from City Living (the absolute worst offender imo) in The Sims 2.

They're still the least flexible neighborhoods and lots to this date. Even a non-builder player who only plays family play one day might go "I'm running out of lots where my extremely extended family of 7 generations can live." In previous games you go "OK, let's add a new lot to the world map then.". In The Sims 4 you go "Looks like I to get rid of a community lot to house them!"

The other thing I like from a function perspective about The Sims 4 though is its incredibly easy to change lot type in build mode. In The Sims 3 you had to go into edit world, and in The Sims 2 you had to exit out of your family onto the world map. I know this annoyed me when I was trying to build a lot I affectionately call "Ugly Dive Bar" in The Sims 3. The Sims 4 just has a better and more accessible build mode with way more options for customisation in general though, but.... What's the point in such a good and in depth build mode when your neighborhoods are going to be so crap and uncustomisable? 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

I do see what you mean about community lots in The Sims 3 being empty though. I find it's very hit or miss, and neighborhoods in their fresh states with all of the maxis premades still in tact tend to have more active community lots without mods, though this may be an utter coincidence. Some times I'll go to a community lot to see no one. Others I'll see an entire group. And for certain lots like libraries that's OK I guess. But I've never been to a pub irl that's just been a complete ghost town, but then again... I don't go to a lot of pubs. :tongue:

"Magnezone;c-17452909" wrote:

"LiELF;c-17452901" wrote:
I see where you're coming from, but preference is still a very big factor and functionality remains debatable. If someone isn't a builder and doesn't care at all about that aspect of the game, then moving lots and changing the world environment isn't going to mean anything to them. So it does actually come down to what the player wants from the world and from the game.

You see, this is the only thing I can give The Sims 4's worlds - convinience. You load up the game and it has everything you would ever need on a basic functional level from the get go. No need to add things. No need to build things if you won't want. And I can see why this would appeal to some people.

Exactly. That, plus the worlds just being more beautiful.