Please close this thread

"@Simtanium;c-17612477" wrote:
@CAPTAIN_NXR7 You're entitled to voice your opinion but I think you're missing my point entirely. I personally wouldn't have been offended or upset if EA decided to never include any same-sex couples in the game at all. Like you say, I can create my own (and I actually usually play straight couples as I enjoy playing with genetics and creating families). However, when EA decided to start marketing this game as a way to "represent yourself" and became very vocal about its LGBT+ inclusion they opened themselves up tor this criticism. I am never one of those people who would say a straight person couldn't have a viewpoint on gay topics, but it likely is difficult to comprehend unless you have experienced it yourself. The portrayal of gay men in media is extremely monolithic and stereotypical, and actually quite insulting. Gay characters are usually shown as catty, comedic and promiscuous; and are never shown in a loving relationship or raising a family. Lesbian couples are much easier to include as they (often) appeal to straight male viewers and are more socially acceptable. It is very common to see lesbian couples shown raising a child. While this sort of thing is something I have come to expect from most other forms of media that claim to be "woke" but only push these issues in socially-acceptable ways, given the Sims franchises' history of being (dare I say) brave for including homosexual relationships when it ships all over the world, I expected better from them.

I agree that EA opened themselves up for criticism by bragging around about any kind of inclusion.
In the meantime members of the trance community don’t feel like they’re being represented correctly, those who identify as non binary are not happy because of the lack of options in CAS, some ethnic groups feel there’s too much missing for them, gay couples are not shown the same respect as female couples and the list goes on and on. The game is under so much pressure right now because everybody wants to be represented exactly the way that suits them, otherwise “racism here” or “discrimination there.”

And in the meantime where the hell are the werewolves? Because let’s not forget it’s a game.

Perhaps EA should stop marketing The Sims 4 as an all inclusive game and just give us some more advanced tools. Social representation in TS4 is already way ahead of any other game. Give people more options so they can create whatever and whoever they want.

As for why female couples with kids have more representation in game than their male counterparts: Is it not more common for two women to have a child? Indeed, females are portrayed as nurturing since they are the ones that carry a child for 9 months.

But then again, apparently a male sim can breastfeed his alien baby...

I‘m not familiar with custodian law in other countries, but where I live, a man doesn’t even have any legal rights to his own child if he’s not married. The mother is always in a superior position. If she decides to put the child up for adoption, the father doesn’t automatically get custody. He will have to apply and go through the adoption process just like any other person. Ultimately it doesn’t matter who the father of the child is, even if he’s been looking after his own kid for years. Legally, it’s not his.
I can only I imagine how difficult it must be for two men to adopt a kid.
Whatever the reasons are for leaving out certain aspects in game, I still don’t think they’re intentional. I believe there is at least one male dev married to another man and both have a little kid.

Yes Im straight and half Caucasian and I can’t possibly understand how gay men or anybody else feels about the lack of inclusion. I don’t have that experience. So perhaps I shouldn’t participate in this discussion.

However I still believe that, rather than working on this apparent lack of representation in premade households, it’s more important for the sims team to work on the lack of CAS and gameplay options.

For the most part I'm just glad that there is LGBT representation at all in the Sims series. Off course given the fact that I'm not LGBT, I cannot speak for the LGBT community or even the gay community, however, given what little representation there is for gay people in video games at all, the Sims series is much better in that regard, probably than the vast majority.

Also, although, someone else pointed this out, it needs to be repeated. There really aren't that many Sims that get included with each pack. In the Sims 3, maybe it would be a bit more understandable for people to be upset with the low number of LGBT sims, since we would usually get somewhere around twenty to thirty households with each new expansion pack, at least if they included a new world. In the Sims 4, we are lucky if we get four new households. Kind of hard to represent everyone in each pack, especially when that's the case.

"KaeChan2089;c-17612648" wrote:
Whoa TIL LOL!

Yes. Bewildering. I know. :D

"CAPTAIN_NXR7;c-17612647" wrote:

"@Simtanium;c-17612477" wrote:
@CAPTAIN_NXR7 You're entitled to voice your opinion but I think you're missing my point entirely. I personally wouldn't have been offended or upset if EA decided to never include any same-sex couples in the game at all. Like you say, I can create my own (and I actually usually play straight couples as I enjoy playing with genetics and creating families). However, when EA decided to start marketing this game as a way to "represent yourself" and became very vocal about its LGBT+ inclusion they opened themselves up tor this criticism. I am never one of those people who would say a straight person couldn't have a viewpoint on gay topics, but it likely is difficult to comprehend unless you have experienced it yourself. The portrayal of gay men in media is extremely monolithic and stereotypical, and actually quite insulting. Gay characters are usually shown as catty, comedic and promiscuous; and are never shown in a loving relationship or raising a family. Lesbian couples are much easier to include as they (often) appeal to straight male viewers and are more socially acceptable. It is very common to see lesbian couples shown raising a child. While this sort of thing is something I have come to expect from most other forms of media that claim to be "woke" but only push these issues in socially-acceptable ways, given the Sims franchises' history of being (dare I say) brave for including homosexual relationships when it ships all over the world, I expected better from them.

I agree that EA opened themselves up for criticism by bragging around about any kind of inclusion.
In the meantime members of the trance community don’t feel like they’re being represented correctly, those who identify as non binary are not happy because of the lack of options in CAS, some ethnic groups feel there’s too much missing for them, gay couples are not shown the same respect as female couples and the list goes on and on. The game is under so much pressure right now because everybody wants to be represented exactly the way that suits them, otherwise “racism here” or “discrimination there.”

And in the meantime where the hell are the werewolves? Because let’s not forget it’s a game.

Perhaps EA should stop marketing The Sims 4 as an all inclusive game and just give us some more advanced tools. Social representation in TS4 is already way ahead of any other game. Give people more options so they can create whatever and whoever they want.

As for why female couples with kids have more representation in game than their male counterparts: Is it not more common for two women to have a child? Indeed, females are portrayed as nurturing since they are the ones that carry a child for 9 months.

But then again, apparently a male sim can breastfeed his alien baby...

I‘m not familiar with custodian law in other countries, but where I live, a man doesn’t even have any legal rights to his own child if he’s not married. The mother is always in a superior position. If she decides to put the child up for adoption, the father doesn’t automatically get custody. He will have to apply and go through the adoption process just like any other person. Ultimately it doesn’t matter who the father of the child is, even if he’s been looking after his own kid for years. Legally, it’s not his.
I can only I imagine how difficult it must be for two men to adopt a kid.
Whatever the reasons are for leaving out certain aspects in game, I still don’t think they’re intentional. I believe there is at least one male dev married to another man and both have a little kid.

Yes Im straight and half Caucasian and I can’t possibly understand how gay men or anybody else feels about the lack of inclusion. I don’t have that experience. So perhaps I shouldn’t participate in this discussion.

However I still believe that, rather than working on this apparent lack of representation in premade households, it’s more important for the sims team to work on the lack of CAS and gameplay options.

, it’s more important for the sims team to work on the lack of CAS and gameplay options
I agree I feel the same way we all need more gameplay and to know what that new gamepack is
and wearwovles @CAPTAIN_NXR7

I think OP means there is a lack of gay male premade sims. And some people, including the OP, see that as discriminatory coming from EA because of how supportive they are of the LGBTQ+ community yet do not seem interested in making gay couples.
You guys really need to read the thread. I don't necessarily agree with this but I think you all are missing the point.

"SimmerGeorge;c-17612830" wrote:
I think OP means there is a lack of gay male premade sims. And some people, including the OP, see that as discriminatory coming from EA because of how supportive they are of the LGBTQ+ community yet do not seem interested in making gay couples.
You guys really need to read the thread. I don't necessarily agree with this but I think you all are missing the point.

oh you mean they just want to talk about weather we think ea is being discriminatory or not
if so then no I don't think so I think they mean well :) and want everyone to feel welcome

"SimmerGeorge;c-17612830" wrote:
I think OP means there is a lack of gay male premade sims. And some people, including the OP, see that as discriminatory coming from EA because of how supportive they are of the LGBTQ+ community yet do not seem interested in making gay couples.
You guys really need to read the thread. I don't necessarily agree with this but I think you all are missing the point.

Yep.

I feel some of the people I have created or maxis created kind of show some preference for same sex relationships or bisexual. Others do not. Just like real life. Kind of what makes it fun making your stories for the families. This game encourages freedom of expression and ideas by having the option to create your own. Or use theirs knowing it may not be exactly what they want.

"@SimmerGeorge;c-17612830" wrote:
I think OP means there is a lack of gay male premade sims. And some people, including the OP, see that as discriminatory coming from EA because of how supportive they are of the LGBTQ+ community yet do not seem interested in making gay couples.
You guys really need to read the thread. I don't necessarily agree with this but I think you all are missing the point.

Maybe so. And hey, again, I probably have no place at all in this discussion because I’m in no position to say how anybody should feel about something that I have no experience with. I do know that there have been various threads about the same topic and I’ve been avoiding them just because I never cared about the social representation of anything in pre-mades. Maybe I should. I just don’t.
However I’m all for diversity and inclusion, and I do like variety in my game. The game should provide us with the tools so we can create our own ideal characters and worlds. I understand that this thread is not about the tools. It’s about how EA decides to represents some elements and not others, which seems unfair to some.

I agree with OP that there’s a flaw in EA’s marketing strategy because they’re boasting about inclusion, and yet a lot still seems to be missing, due to those Tools I keep moaning about. If they just work on those and do less political boasting about inclusion until TS4 can actually provide the player with ways to represent themselves it’ll be easier for everyone.

I’m sure if we analyzed every household in TS4 we’ll see a lack of representation of many other members of the LGBTQ+ community, certain ethnic groups etc. There will be a whole list of non-inclusion. That’s why we can’t depend on Maxis to create those households for us.
I personally don’t believe the devs who created the households so far, intentionally left gay male couples (with kids) out. Maybe they did. Who knows? We’ll just have to see what they give us next.

"CAPTAIN_NXR7;c-17612993" wrote:

"@SimmerGeorge;c-17612830" wrote:
I think OP means there is a lack of gay male premade sims. And some people, including the OP, see that as discriminatory coming from EA because of how supportive they are of the LGBTQ+ community yet do not seem interested in making gay couples.
You guys really need to read the thread. I don't necessarily agree with this but I think you all are missing the point.

Maybe so. And hey, again, I probably have no place at all in this discussion because I’m in no position to say how anybody should feel about something that I have no experience with. I do know that there have been various threads about the same topic and I’ve been avoiding them just because I never cared about the social representation of anything in pre-mades. Maybe I should. I just don’t.
However I’m all for diversity and inclusion, and I do like variety in my game. The game should provide us with the tools so we can create our own ideal characters and worlds. I understand that this thread is not about the tools. It’s about how EA decides to represents some elements and not others, which seems unfair to some.

I agree with OP that there’s a flaw in EA’s marketing strategy because they’re boasting about inclusion, and yet a lot still seems to be missing, due to those Tools I keep moaning about. If they just work on those and do less political boasting about inclusion until TS4 can actually provide the player with ways to represent themselves it’ll be easier for everyone.

I’m sure if we analyzed every household in TS4 we’ll see a lack of representation of many other members of the LGBTQ+ community, certain ethnic groups etc. There will be a whole list of non-inclusion. That’s why we can’t depend on Maxis to create those households for us.
I personally don’t believe the devs who created the households so far, intentionally left gay male couples with kids out. Maybe they did. Who knows? We’ll just have to see what they give us next.

@CAPTAIN_NXR7 I agree with you 100%. I just wanted to point out that the OP made this thread with something else in mind than what people are commenting on.
Personally I think it is nearly impossible to represent every kind of human on this earth. If you look closely enough, like you said, you will always find some who is either not represented or not as much as the others but that is just inevitable because of how unique the world is. You can already see the LGBTQ+ name getting so big we had to add a plus to it, just because we cannot even come up with a word that represents everyone, let alone put that in a game.
I think EA is not doing it on purpose. I would love to see more non-stereotypical gay couples but even if they don't make any that doesn't mean they are h o m o phobic. We all just do and create what feels closest to us and even though EA is making an effort to create premades that represent as many people as possible they are also human and we can't expect from them something we cannot even do ourselves. I'm sure if I looked at your game I could find some race, sexuality etc. that isn't being "represented". Same goes for my game.