Should the Shrine in Snowy Escape be re-meshed/worked into a "ancestor" or "spirit" shrine?

"Raevyn;c-17701074" wrote:

"halloweenchild;c-17701059" wrote:

the fact that the action has now been removed from the game and the "shrine is now just a "decorative" item (and the trailer has been edited to reflect that) is downright distasteful and imho disrespectful to Japanese people.

This is the part I hate... If they end up removing something or making it decorative they should at least add something else in its place. Players literally just lost another gameplay feature & in a game that is already quite lacking, they should NOT be removing features/interactions WITHOUT replacing them with something else.

In my opinion, even if it wasn't a shrine, but another gameplay object with new interactions should be added in its place. I'm aware that this has all just happened recently (within a couple of days), but when all this started they should have seriously sat down and discussed it & when they decided to remove it they should have been discussing what they will add in its place & telling people "It will be replaced by something else". Whether that's at release or patched in a week or so after, it needs to be replaced.

Exactly, I'm more offended that the shrine was removed over whatever little "controversy" was seen form the shrine or the fan/sunbeam pattern on the Kimono. There's a lack of forward-thinking here and it's more problematic than whatever issues people were bishing and moaning about before, and I also agree about them taking away a small gameplay feature without adding anything to replace it is also bad.
I just have no words for it, I'm just flabbergasted that this was an issue to begin with. I feel it is a mistake on the Guru's behalf, but there's nothing I can do about it.

"Raevyn;c-17701060" wrote:

"haneul;c-17701040" wrote:
@Raevyn You are clearly unfamiliar with both Japan and Korea. As much as it stinks to have something removed from the game, adding a shrine for ancestor worship doesn't make sense as it doesn't fit the theme of the pack (Snowy Japanese Escape) at all. I apologize for not being able to explain properly, but that would be too random and too close to being religious and not even super Japanese (when this is supposed to be a Japanese and not Asian themed world).

I do agree though, that NOT much information about that particular object was given as to what it was for and what its functions were to be aside from doing a bow to it and perhaps we should have waited to see what it was called & its other functions before jumping into conclusions.

If EA wants to be successful in Korea, it can't having rising suns and awkward/automated Shinto rituals in its happy life simulator game. The Korean market will not have it and that's why EA quickly addressed the issue and tried to correct it. Anyone who knows anything about Korea, knows this is just no ... Also, Japanese culture isn't defined by those things either, so it's fine to remove them. It's not offensive to Japan to remove them. Maybe Westerners don't understand and need more information, but to others, it's obvious and there's no need for stuff about functions because we already know enough.

Again, it's too bad that there's nothing to replace it, but it can't just be replaced with ancestor worship because that'd be weird, random, and out of place.

I don't mean this in a condescending way, but you seem to know more about Japanese/Korean culture. What is the connection between the Shrine EA had in the trailer (where the lady was bowing to it), and the Snowy Japanese Escape theme they went for? If they went for this theme, then wouldn't putting a Shrine in the game in general already be out of place and weird?

I was merely making a suggestion as to how they could bring that aspect of 'prayer' or 'shrines' or whatever they were going for, to the game in a less offensive way. Which the Eastern player base might appreciate. While not specifically being 'super Japanese', it might bring some more representation and understanding of Eastern culture. Particularly when we look and see as default, things like Christmas & Easter (Christian Religious holidays, mind you), so clearly represented in the game (even though they are renamed).

Ancestral ceremonies are often personal and not going outside to some kind of random place where any random person can come. The shrine in the trailer looked pretty touristy, like a place where anyone can go anytime, pray and write down their prayers/wishes. It's kind of like how when people visit Paris, they visit Notre Dame.

Also, there's a lot of cultural tension between East Asian countries, and since EA decided to label this as Japanese and not East Asian, it's not a good idea to mix them up (ex. putting something typically associated with China in a Japanese pack). I don't think the issue is people failing to acknowledge that culture and religion are mixed. If anything it may be the opposite for East Asia. The Shinto "religion"/cultural practices is so associated with Japan. It didn't really work when Japan tried to spread it to other countries, hence the forcing people to visit shrines and it not really being a thing outside of Japan. The inability to separate is partly why this issue is so sticky.

What if they made a self-interaction like “Reverent Bow” or “Moment of Silence” which we could use on our sims wherever... at the dinner table or in front of a shrine? I might do it at a grave to symbolize a prayer.

I don’t agree that Christianity is in the game at all. The Christmas Tree and Easter Eggs came from pagan practices. The songs they sing are parodies of things like Jingle Bells, not actual hymns. The closest thing would be “Attend Ceremony” which could apply to many religions. I’m not interested in adding every specific religion to the game but I do appreciate generic interactions whenever possible that are totally optional. And we seem to have nailed that down to a Moment of Silence in the U.S.

"babajayne;c-17701194" wrote:
I don’t agree that Christianity is in the game at all. The Christmas Tree and Easter Eggs came from pagan practices. The songs they sing are parodies of things like Jingle Bells, not actual hymns. The closest thing would be “Attend Ceremony” which could apply to many religions. I’m not interested in adding every specific religion to the game but I do appreciate generic interactions whenever possible that are totally optional. And we seem to have nailed that down to a Moment of Silence in the U.S.

Obviously they won't put Christianity in 100%, but I consider it in the game. The tree in the game is called a Christmas Tree in real life after all - it's derived from paganism, but it's named after Christ. Also, if you Google Jingle Bells, Google will tell you it's a song associated with Christmas (a Christmas song) and classic to sing at Christmas time (even though originally it wasn't that way). Christmas & Easter are the biggest Christian holidays and even though Christmas is called Winterfest in the game, it's obvious what it's meant to be. I think that EA maybe tried to do the same thing with visiting the shrine in this new pack (where everyone knows what it is meant to be/inspired by but it's technically not that thing that inspired it in the game). However, since this time it's so offensive to some that they don't want to pretend anything to do with it, EA had to remove some animations associated with it.

What if they made a self-interaction like “Reverent Bow” or “Moment of Silence” which we could use on our sims wherever... at the dinner table or in front of a shrine? I might do it at a grave to symbolize a prayer.

I think that'd be fine, but a moment of silence from a game POV would be boring. It would be an animation of nothing. We also already have the mourn interaction with graves, so I don't know see EA really doing anything like a reverent bow because it's high risk for little reward.

"haneul;c-17701324" wrote:

"babajayne;c-17701194" wrote:
I don’t agree that Christianity is in the game at all. The Christmas Tree and Easter Eggs came from pagan practices. The songs they sing are parodies of things like Jingle Bells, not actual hymns. The closest thing would be “Attend Ceremony” which could apply to many religions. I’m not interested in adding every specific religion to the game but I do appreciate generic interactions whenever possible that are totally optional. And we seem to have nailed that down to a Moment of Silence in the U.S.

Obviously they won't put Christianity in 100%, but I consider it in the game. The tree in the game is called a Christmas Tree in real life after all - it's derived from paganism, but it's named after Christ. Also, if you Google Jingle Bells, Google will tell you it's a song associated with Christmas (a Christmas song) and classic to sing at Christmas time (even though originally it wasn't that way). Christmas & Easter are the biggest Christian holidays and even though Christmas is called Winterfest in the game, it's obvious what it's meant to be. I think that EA maybe tried to do the same thing with visiting the shrine in this new pack (where everyone knows what it is meant to be/inspired by but it's technically not that thing that inspired it in the game). However, since this time it's so offensive to some that they don't want to pretend anything to do with it, EA had to remove some animations associated with it.

What if they made a self-interaction like “Reverent Bow” or “Moment of Silence” which we could use on our sims wherever... at the dinner table or in front of a shrine? I might do it at a grave to symbolize a prayer.

I think that'd be fine, but a moment of silence from a game POV would be boring. It would be an animation of nothing. We also already have the mourn interaction with graves, so I don't know see EA really doing anything like a reverent bow because it's high risk for little reward.

The commercialized version of Christmas often has nothing symbolizing Jesus, so it’s possible to separate the cultural element from the religious element. It’s very unique that way because the culture has already evolved it. Same with Easter.

They couldn’t do that with the menorah. It seems like they can’t do that with the shrines, either. The culture and the religion are tied together.

To me, it’s like comparing apples and oranges, but maybe that’s because of how I was raised (a Christian who never believed in Santa or the Easter Bunny because the true meaning of those holidays has nothing to do with how many people celebrate it today), but you may see it differently and that’s ok. I’m just saying from a Christian perspective, it’s not in the game. The culture is, but the religion isn’t.

I'm Asian and ugh, I hate that a loooot of us are snowflakes towards stuff like these.

To be honest I feel like it's probably more insensitive that they replaced a cultural site with monkey statues than anything else

"Onverser;c-17717631" wrote:
To be honest I feel like it's probably more insensitive that they replaced a cultural site with monkey statues than anything else

Not to mention the fact that the Guru's are just remaining tight-lipped about the whole situation just makes it even worse, like they're not addressing fan concerns and are just hoping it all get's swept under the rug when people get bored or find something else to complain about. There is some shady stuff going on behind the scenes, and it's making my nose itch.