The sims needs more drama.

i like realism in the sims4 but not for everything so i disagree with this thread

"Fleurra;d-992462" wrote:
TL;DR: The sims needs more dramatic events and more meaningful choices to create better stories.

I: The sims need more drama

The sims means many things for different people. Designing houses, décor, fashion. But for many of us, it's about making interesting stories.

Now think about your favorite story. Whether it's a book or a movie, chances are there it contains conflict and drama that pushes the protagonists to change in some way (Star wars, LoTR, etc). The ancient Greeks knew this and their plays were extremely dramatic.

The world of the sims is so easy and devoid of drama it really hurts how stories are made. Even the death of a loved one is reduced to a moodlet that goes away after a day while in reality the death of a loved one can be so traumatic that therapy would be required.

This is why the sims needs more random dramatic events or conflict that pushes individual sims to adapt or change.


II: The sims need more personality

Along with many others, I believe that our identities are shaped by our personal choices.

In the sims world, there is a severe lack of meaningful choices which makes it hard to create actually unique identities. All sims feel very similar at some point. And samey sims can't have conflict which makes boring stories (Imagine if everyone in GoT had the same personality of Jon Snow)

The lifestyles feature made a step in the right direction as they affect personalities by the choices that are made but the choices in the lifestyles feature (which should be expanded) aren't that meaningful.

I think more meaningful choices should be added and tracked in some sort of journal and sims have consequences based on the choices they made. Even something simple like the "memories" from TS2 would make a big difference.


I realize that many people would probably prefer the normal dollhouse experience rather than a realistic sims world which is why such a system could be optional.

I apologize for my poor english I'm not a native speaker.

Yes, I agree.

Honestly there are no real consequences for doing bad things besides getting a bad reputation and who cares about that. It really does not affect gameplay enough. You get into a fight and start talking to the sim in the next moment. I loved in Sims 2, you made a sim mad and they were coming to steal your newspaper, kicking your garbage can, etc. There was no communication when a sim was furious too unless it was to fight more.

Some don't want to fight with their Sim to get them to do what they want them to do. I agree with that up to a point. However, Maxis has built TS4 in a way that the Sim is the person and not a Sim who isn't the person playing. I'm never the Sim I choose to play, this is why I can see how similar they all turn out to be. Mainly because there is too much overlap of emotions/skills/traits which all turn out the same for all Sims. Which I wrote a huge thread about seven years ago showing and proving those overlaps and how it was worthless to think some Sim with creativity was any more rare than someone with a skill or emotion about it.

When I say people don't want to fight with their Sim to get them to do something, this was all handled better in the older games because though they may have a personality or trait that would make them annoyed and or refuse to do something, the player usually won control and they may go do something begrudgingly but the player was made aware they didn't like it (because they are a separate being from the player). In today's game the Sim is just an extension of the player so they do whatever the player makes them do without any resistance. This is why so many of us don't like TS4 because it should be the Sim is the Sim and not us. Therefore, there is very little consequence in case it triggers someone if they are thinking that Sim is them and not a Sim in a game. Should a good Sim do mean interactions with no resistance against the player to do that? Why bother with the trait if it's worthless.

Drama=The Sims, The Sims 2, The Sims 3. It's not in TS4.

I've seen a lot of discussions about this but I think the points you make are interesting. (Sorry for the incoming classic Snowbnuuy text-wall...)

I think Lifestyles and Sentiments are something the game needed to spice up relationships with others, individuality, and such, even if some of the Sentiments are a bit off at times (Once my sim got a call from another asking if he thought a hotdog was a sandwich, he said no, and then the calling Sim had a Festering Grudge or something like that. A bit much : P ) The interactions are a bit more meaningful when there's some kind of (sort of)-lasting impression from certain interactions. Hopefully soon we may get more Likes/Dislikes and Sentiments I hope. I also agree with grieving being very watered-down. I'm hoping one day we'll get some kind of funeral event we can do in TS4, to add a little depth to loss. I think the moodlet should be extended a bit longer than just two days.

The Reputation feature that came with Get Famous comes to mind, but I still feel like there's not a massive consequence to negative reputation. My one Sim that had an Atrocious reputation just got negative reactions in public now and again, but could just bribe their way into friendships and such, so it's easy to still get what you want despite the apparent 'drawback'.

Back when I played TS2 especially, I feel like there was a lot more room for interesting conflicts, especially when it came to TS2 pre-mades and all the existing family dramas and inner conflicts within families. It felt fleshed-out and it was fun to play out the stories in different ways. And of course you had the chance cards for jobs and such that could get you fired, and so there was chance for a spanner to get thrown in the works. I know TS4 has some similar career chance cards, but for me it ruins it a bit that the outcome of your decision is written on the bottom of each choice; I like the surprise element personally. I got around it by flipping a coin and choosing accordingly what the outcome was.

TS3, I feel there was more consequence for screwing up your romantic relationships with other sims. First thing that comes to mind is the old Romantic Reputation feature. If you cheated and were unfaithful, it would negatively affect your reputation and would often make it harder to find a new partner later on down the line. but now there's none of that risk and cheating on your spouse or whatever doesn't seem to have as much of an impact on the rest of your Sim's life. This is actually a feature I want back since the romantic department in TS4 is lacking a lot IMO.

I like your idea of Random Events. Maybe there could be an on/off toggle in Options for it, but I think it'd be a good idea to have some variety of things that can really throw a curveball.

"Cinebar;c-17946436" wrote:
Some don't want to fight with their Sim to get them to do what they want them to do. I agree with that up to a point. However, Maxis has built TS4 in a way that the Sim is the person and not a Sim who isn't the person playing. I'm never the Sim I choose to play, this is why I can see how similar they all turn out to be. Mainly because there is too much overlap of emotions/skills/traits which all turn out the same for all Sims. Which I wrote a huge thread about seven years ago showing and proving those overlaps and how it was worthless to think some Sim with creativity was any more rare than someone with a skill or emotion about it.

When I say people don't want to fight with their Sim to get them to do something, this was all handled better in the older games because though they may have a personality or trait that would make them annoyed and or refuse to do something, the player usually won control and they may go do something begrudgingly but the player was made aware they didn't like it (because they are a separate being from the player). In today's game the Sim is just an extension of the player so they do whatever the player makes them do without any resistance. This is why so many of us don't like TS4 because it should be the Sim is the Sim and not us. Therefore, there is very little consequence in case it triggers someone if they are thinking that Sim is them and not a Sim in a game. Should a good Sim do mean interactions with no resistance against the player to do that? Why bother with the trait if it's worthless.

Drama=The Sims, The Sims 2, The Sims 3. It's not in TS4.

I fully agree. Even something as simple as reinstituting the TS2 system - in all aspects - would be a big improvement. I think a lot of the problem lies in the online roots of the game. I've played only a couple of online games, and that briefly, but enough to know that the sim/avatar is me and I am it. The sim is the vehicle for me entering directly into the game world. I see the same sort of thing in TS4, while I didn't in the prior versions. There, I am me, they are them. While there is some sim-player interaction (especially in TS2), it is as 2 separate individuals.

"Cinebar;c-17946436" wrote:
Some don't want to fight with their Sim to get them to do what they want them to do. I agree with that up to a point. However, Maxis has built TS4 in a way that the Sim is the person and not a Sim who isn't the person playing. I'm never the Sim I choose to play, this is why I can see how similar they all turn out to be. Mainly because there is too much overlap of emotions/skills/traits which all turn out the same for all Sims. Which I wrote a huge thread about seven years ago showing and proving those overlaps and how it was worthless to think some Sim with creativity was any more rare than someone with a skill or emotion about it.

When I say people don't want to fight with their Sim to get them to do something, this was all handled better in the older games because though they may have a personality or trait that would make them annoyed and or refuse to do something, the player usually won control and they may go do something begrudgingly but the player was made aware they didn't like it (because they are a separate being from the player). In today's game the Sim is just an extension of the player so they do whatever the player makes them do without any resistance. This is why so many of us don't like TS4 because it should be the Sim is the Sim and not us. Therefore, there is very little consequence in case it triggers someone if they are thinking that Sim is them and not a Sim in a game. Should a good Sim do mean interactions with no resistance against the player to do that? Why bother with the trait if it's worthless.

Drama=The Sims, The Sims 2, The Sims 3. It's not in TS4.

I agree with this post and it is so true, EA/Maxis had mucked the formula so much for me.

"Fleurra;d-992462" wrote:
TL;DR: The sims needs more dramatic events and more meaningful choices to create better stories.

I: The sims need more drama

The sims means many things for different people. Designing houses, décor, fashion. But for many of us, it's about making interesting stories.

Now think about your favorite story. Whether it's a book or a movie, chances are there it contains conflict and drama that pushes the protagonists to change in some way (Star wars, LoTR, etc). The ancient Greeks knew this and their plays were extremely dramatic.

The world of the sims is so easy and devoid of drama it really hurts how stories are made. Even the death of a loved one is reduced to a moodlet that goes away after a day while in reality the death of a loved one can be so traumatic that therapy would be required.

This is why the sims needs more random dramatic events or conflict that pushes individual sims to adapt or change.


II: The sims need more personality

Along with many others, I believe that our identities are shaped by our personal choices.

In the sims world, there is a severe lack of meaningful choices which makes it hard to create actually unique identities. All sims feel very similar at some point. And samey sims can't have conflict which makes boring stories (Imagine if everyone in GoT had the same personality of Jon Snow)

The lifestyles feature made a step in the right direction as they affect personalities by the choices that are made but the choices in the lifestyles feature (which should be expanded) aren't that meaningful.

I think more meaningful choices should be added and tracked in some sort of journal and sims have consequences based on the choices they made. Even something simple like the "memories" from TS2 would make a big difference.


I realize that many people would probably prefer the normal dollhouse experience rather than a realistic sims world which is why such a system could be optional.

I apologize for my poor english I'm not a native speaker.

Agreed there. A vampire bites a Sim and all they get is a bad reputation? Hackers and other criminals don't run the risk of getting arrested? The Mother was is probably the best monster they have? Maybe Temperance, but she gets defeated if you have just one idol that you can reuse? Tech gurus and other businesses aren't trying to beat a competing company? Authors, artists, and programmers don't seem to have much struggles in their fields, either.

Agree fully. At a simpler level, what about the chance cards that were so common in earlier versions, you know the kind that often had major consequences - positive or negative - depending on your choice. Even taking a tour had them.

You said "optional", and that's all I needed.

I'm one of those whose imagination makes the game so much more interesting than it is at the core. I see things as their equivalent, I emulate what isn't inherent, and whatever I cannot reasonably play, I imagine occurring and follow from there. For personalities, my mind strings together traits, skills, and context clues to create people, not dolls.

A good game system for The Sims must lend itself to those want to paint on a blank canvas, and those who want to read a "choose your own adventure" book. I had to turn off Lifestyles because they tried to tell me who my sims are. Sentiments are more akin to what I prefer, as they just tell me how they feel in the moment, which I can reasonably work with. As for random events--so long as they don't take my sim away from me (by pulling at their autonomy), and instead invite me to explore the possibility, or give me more to add to the story, then that's fine.

I'm still waiting for the SMART SIMS that EA advertised way back in 2013